Is anyone hearing anything?

[from the home of CC]

12 minutes ago, bjaz said:

 

Please check, but I think quite a few EU countries gave a 6 month extension in quite a few cases, covering long stays and more (you can apply for extensions for short stays as well) - something like this:
 

Source:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/#sommaire_5

really though, looking at the infection rates, why would you want to?

[vandeventer]

17 hours ago, worldfun said:

so how much you want to bet?

The reason there's all silence in the political/foreigners news is because nobody is debating this issue although agreeable it's still an issue for folks like you who haven't got other options ????

well good luck to all bets I'm afraid I'm not with 80% phuket dude anymore though ????
Remember it has absolutely nothing to do with reason and logic around here.

 

Top agenda of cabinet might be for next week debate:

 

1. the protesters / extending emergency degree

2. the missing finance minister

3. the special tourist visa

4. keeping the daily covid count at 0

5. another long 4 day weekend for domestic travel scheme/scam

6. traffic accidents

7. flooding/hurricane/farming

8. submarines

9. the isan free trade zone (udon/nongkhai/laos/china)

10. TAT xxxxx proposal

 

       They might include the people all around Thailand looking for food? As far as the amnesty goes there's no money in it,but seeing that there are so many still trapped in Thailand they will have to do something.

[bjaz]

2 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

you've had your 3 months plus and now it's finished..

This is just an illustration of a Western nation currently making legislations amendments because of the current pandemic situation - it's fairly common worldwide at the moment, not just in non-Western, more or less tourism-dependent countries.

[bjaz]

 

43 minutes ago, fondue zoo said:

Agreed, almost everybody in the "cracks" would happily pay for extensions if Immigration could only get their heads around lifting the limits per visa stamp. Even if it was only a temporary measure while the covid drama continues. Coins in the coffers, and up to date information about what we're all up to under the coconut.

Exactly - As previously mentioned, Indonesia did exactly this, by allowing both tourists and long-stay (KITAS work/stay permit etc) to hop on to their general tourism long-stay visa, the social B211 to remain in the country. You pay for conversions, and for subsequent monthly extensions, and it's no longer capped at a maximum 6 months stay ("until the emergency is deemed over").
This is to give foreigners already in the country a legal, paying option to extend their stay.

It's not that uncommon worlwide at the moment, but clearly not the direction that Thailand has taken from the start ("visa amnesties", focus on "stranded tourists", and no official temporary amendments of rules for people falling in the gaps like certain categories of long-stay visa holders etc).

To return to Indonesia, at the start of the pandemic they granted an "emergency stay permit" to Chinese nationals:
http://ponorogo.imigrasi.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/emergencystaypermit.jpg

"Emergency stay permit" which was then extended to all foreigners in the country:

https://www.bali.com/media/image/1926/immigration-restrictions-bali-indonesiaimmigration-restrictions-bali-indonesia.jpg

And finally revoked, but with a temporary amendment of regulations to allow all foreigners (tourists + long stay visa holders) to apply in-country for a long-stay tourist visa, with (currently unlimited) paying monthly extensions to extend their stay.

https://i2.wp.com/pemalang.imigrasi.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/imigrasipml_1599033978_1.jpg?w=1440&ssl=1

https://i0.wp.com/pemalang.imigrasi.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/imigrasipml_1599033978_2.jpg?w=1440&ssl=1

It's interesting to see such contrasting approaches to the question in two ASEAN countries with a relatively import tourism sector.
Especially since one had virtually no lock-down, is now severly hit and is letting foreigner stay on, whereas the other had strict lock-downs, emerged as a pandemic-handling success story, and is not making real amendments to let foreigners stay (unless you consider dark grey-area non-ED and non-O volunteer visas sold by private agents as a solution.

Malaysia, mentioned earlier, was at one point harsher on in-country foreigners, with repeat amnesty announcements covering rather short intervals, but then eased up, allowing all foreigners to stay until December 31.

Edited September 19, 2020 by bjaz

[86Tiger]

It is hilarious reading all the reasons Thailand should or will extend amnesty offered by those who want amnesty.

 

 

Thailand has no concern for what other nations do, they simply don't care.  Thailand will not experience chaos by ending amnesty, a few individuals that did not make arrangements may, but Thailand will collect the overstay fine,  black list you and be done with it.  Why would Thailand make further accommodation to individuals that did absolutely nothing on their own behalf except complain about what Thailand should do?

[FritsSikkink]

18 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

who has? immigration? but they are not the ones who decide

 

has the cabinet in the last few weeks "made it clear there will no no further amnesty extension"? I don't think they have?

 

I cant see how they cannot extend it further, its going to be total chaos if they don't, regardless of what the common consensus is, these guys in the cabinet are actually fairly smart people, unless somehow they just don't discuss the issue on Tuesday, if they do discuss the issue, they will come to the conclusion that the amnesty needs to be extended, and it will be extended.

Dream on, good luck with your overstay.

[FritsSikkink]

17 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

Yeah I’m sure that’s been happening, loads of people have been flying out before the 27th, airports been busy with all these people flying out, yeah loads of people on Non immigration visas decided that they were just gaming the system and the fun is  over.
 

Lots of dads who couldn’t get extensions just thought, yeah let’s leave our 2 year old child and newborn baby and fly back to a virus hotspot with significant chance of death and leave children to grow up without of father. Yes I definitely think “I would hope those that haven't already made visa arrangements have booked a flight out before  27th.”  Yes that seems like a wonderful thing to “hope” for.

 

You had 6 months to make arrangements.

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

who has? immigration? but they are not the ones who decide

 

has the cabinet in the last few weeks "made it clear there will no no further amnesty extension"? I don't think they have?

Radio Silence. 

 

But let's clear up something - there Was No "Amenesty" - there was an Automatic-Extension of foreigners's then-current extensions by the cabinet. 

 

Then, after immigration said "time to clear out" (to maximize agent-fees) - a further extension of the extension was made until Sept 26.

 

18 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

I cant see how they cannot extend it further, its going to be total chaos if they don't, regardless of what the common consensus is, these guys in the cabinet are actually fairly smart people, unless somehow they just don't discuss the issue on Tuesday, if they do discuss the issue, they will come to the conclusion that the amnesty needs to be extended, and it will be extended.

I don't think they will extend the auto-extension, again.  The planned workaround was everyone would get letters from their embassy, and be allowed 30-day "covid" extensions.  So we are back in the "immigration-system" - but not booted out.

 

The problem is that some embassies are being little (explitives) about it - playing "not my problem!" / "why should I?" games, and asking their citizens to plea with "reasons."  

 

Clearly, Thai Immigration (instructed by the Cabinet) simply wants what the USA is providing - a reference to the "ongoing covid situation" letter, to create "diplomatic cover" for our staying.  It's a fig-leaf, after years of being (explitives) about "how long" foreigners were here (spending our foreign-sourced money into their economy), the last few years. 

 

But even w/o another auto-extension, there might be a "grace period" w/o fines - maybe even apply for 30-days once w/o an embassy-letter, given some embassies are not cooperating.  Still, at this point, Thai Immigration can put the blame for folks being "stuck" squarely on their own embassies.  Thailand provided a way out.

[jimmjam]

8 hours ago, fishtank said:

You can easily get a 12 month extension providing you qualify.

Did you not read what i said, immigration wont give me a 12 month extension.

 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, padthaininja said:

But then we have Vietnam who's been letting foreigners extend 1-3 months by simply paying for it. Why hasn't Thailand implemented something similar?

Why should they, go to Vietnam if you like it so much. what are the rules in your home country?

Edited September 19, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[Bangkok Barry]

18 hours ago, worldfun said:

so how much you want to bet?

The reason there's all silence in the political/foreigners news is because nobody is debating this issue although agreeable it's still an issue for folks like you who haven't got other options ????

well good luck to all bets I'm afraid I'm not with 80% phuket dude anymore though ????
Remember it has absolutely nothing to do with reason and logic around here.

 

Top agenda of cabinet might be for next week debate:

 

1. the protesters / extending emergency degree

2. the missing finance minister

3. the special tourist visa

4. keeping the daily covid count at 0

5. another long 4 day weekend for domestic travel scheme/scam

6. traffic accidents

7. flooding/hurricane/farming

8. submarines

9. the isan free trade zone (udon/nongkhai/laos/china)

10. TAT xxxxx proposal

 

They discuss traffic accidents? You think?

[PatOngo]

Is anyone hearing anything?

Yes, I keep hearing these voices in my head......I'm sure it's the devil!

[VBF]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

I was referring to western nations, and I don't know of any that throw out visa regulations by simply paying for it to happen..

Neither do I, but I'm also not naive enough to think it doesn't happen!

Rather like bribing police - kept secret and at a different level, and MUCH more expensive!

 

And no, I have no evidence of this other than occasional reports in the "gutter" press, but human nature being what it is......????

Edited September 19, 2020 by VBF

[bjaz]

26 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

what are the rules in your home country?

Basic rule is force majeure
Article 33 of the EU Visa Code states:

“In case a visa holder who is already present on the territory of the Member States is unable to leave before the expiry of his visa for reasons of force majeure, humanitarian reasons or serious personal reasons, he should address the request for extension of the visa to the competent authorities of the Member State where he is present even if that is not the Member State whose consulate issued the visa.”
 

The Covid-19 situation falls under force majeure (which also covers more basic situations like weather conditions, strikes, yep...) meaning you can apply for a free visa extension in the country you are currently in, even if you're currently not in the country, Schengen or not, that originally issued your visa. You will receive a visa extension for up to a maximum stay of 90 days in any 180-day period free of charge.

But beyond this basic EU rule, given the specific nature of the current situation, most member states have actually made other, shall we say "humanitarian" provisions.
As previously mentioned, there's currently a general 6 month "amnesty" for long-stay visas expired since the start of the pandemic emergency in most (all?) EU countries, and also special procedures for short-stays visas.

Other locales apply other regulations, usually offering more flexibilty than in normal times,
I'd say the big divide is between countries clearly allowing foreigners to extend their stay legally (by exceptionally allowing them to get on some sort of stay permit or long stay visa, Indonesia for instance) while others consider this on a case by case basis, where foreigners have to actively justify their need to stay in the country.

Edited September 19, 2020 by bjaz

[Bangkok Barry]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

It takes someone with seriously deluded vision who would wait until the final foot drops, and then continues to complain about being disenfranchised.

Maybe they were people who saw that, as in March, all local borders are still closed and there is therefore no logical reason to change the amnesty situation. There are many in Thailand who make border hops of a few hours to a few days, and that has been impossible since March and is still impossible now.

I'll be going for the 60-day extension based on marriage, but I do wonder what will happen if the situation remains unchanged two months from now, which is far more likely than not. Only one 60-day is allowed, so then there are more questions raised. Will more be granted, or will everyone be forced to get one-year extensions with the financial requirements that involves - and which I'm sure many will not be able to satisfy?

 

Another complication for me is that my visa expires in mid-November, and as things stand I am unable to go to Savannakhet to renew it. What then? No amnesty and no way to apply for a visa. Flying somewhere at huge expense simply to get permission to return (with or without quarantine and numerous hoops) is beyond stupid and not a path I would be willing to take.

 

Thailand really needs to get a grip and realise there is a pandemic on and it doesn't only affect Thais in Thailand. It affects everyone.

[AlfHuy]

What did you say? I can't hear you.

Thai girlfriend asking farang for some more buffalo money.

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

I can't think of a single country who would of allowed this amnesty for this length of time of stay with invalid visas.

The Schengen countries still have an "amnesty" for Schengen visa holders that is due to end on September 30th. As others have already mentioned, many Southeast Asian countries still allow people to stay, too, for a fee.

 

Thailand failed to move from this unstamped automatic extension to a pay-to-stay scheme in July, when it would have been safe to visit local immigration offices again. If they had introduced a special COVID-19 extension back then that doesn't require embassy letters or medical certificates, they could have ended the invalid visa chaos right then while maximizing the official fees collected. But they simply preferred to push those affected towards agents who can magically overcome all the obstacles an applicant might face on their own.

[GeorgeCross]

1 minute ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Maybe they were people who saw that, as in March, all local borders are still closed and there is therefore no logical reason to change the amnesty situation. There are many in Thailand who make border hops of a few hours to a few days, and that has been impossible since March and is still impossible now.

I'll be going for the 60-day extension based on marriage, but I do wonder what will happen if the situation remains unchanged two months from now, which is far more likely than not. Only one 60-day is allowed, so then there are more questions raised. Will more be granted, or will everyone be forced to get one-year extensions with the financial requirements that involves - and which I'm sure many will not be able to satisfy?

 

Another complication for me is that my visa expires in mid-November, and as things stand I am unable to go to Savannakhet to renew it. What then? No amnesty and no way to apply for a visa. Flying somewhere at huge expense simply to get permission to return (with or without quarantine and numerous hoops) is beyond stupid and not a path I would be willing to take.

 

Thailand really needs to get a grip and realise there is a pandemic on and it doesn't only affect Thais in Thailand. It affects everyone.

 

i doubt a second 60 day will be allowed just as i doubt too many embassy letters will be granted back to back especially from the UK - you'll most likely need to put 400K in the bank now for your future extension as others have had to do

 

i understand not everyone can come up with that at such short notice and under these conditions so if this is your situation i WOULD get an agent on the back burner, as unpalatable as using one may or may not be for you

 

hopefully though this will all be moot by November and local borders will be open again 

 

 

[Longchop]

this debacle has not been lost on the thai ladies, just been informed, "my friend boyfriend go home england,  all cheep charlie falang hab no money  go home, only falang hab big money can stay thailand, friend me go pattaya tomorrow.

[AlfHuy]

5 minutes ago, Longchop said:

this debacle has not been lost on the thai ladies, just been informed, "my friend boyfriend go home england,  all cheep charlie falang hab no money  go home, only falang hab big money can stay thailand, friend me go pattaya tomorrow.

just told a lady that I love her "to mut" and that I have big money.

Paid her 1,000.000$

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, tonray said:

It's not being tribal at all. Time and time again, foreigners who could not pay their way or otherwise attempted to circumvent the system have brought stricter regulations and requirements upon all of us. Extra insurance, have to keep 800k for 3 months after and 400k all year, etc etc. Bad apples ruining it for everyone

Who is 'not paying their way'?

 

Who has 'attempted to circumvent the system' when there has been visa amnesty, therefore no system to circumvent?

 

Extra insurance makes sense, given rising medical costs and the potential costs associated with Covid. If some foreigner is going to live in Thailand, he should be able to 'pay his way' as you say, which means adequate insurance so the burden does not fall on Thai hospitals. That is hardly the fault of somebody on visa amnesty.

 

As for 800K or 400K baht, neither are large amounts. Those people telling foreigners on amnesty that 'they should have made better plans' sound silly coming from retired people who can't even put together 800,000 baht. THOSE people should have planned better, and had decades, not months under amnesty, to plan.

[jomtienisgood]

19 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

who has? immigration? but they are not the ones who decide

 

has the cabinet in the last few weeks "made it clear there will no no further amnesty extension"? I don't think they have?

 

I cant see how they cannot extend it further, its going to be total chaos if they don't, regardless of what the common consensus is, these guys in the cabinet are actually fairly smart people, unless somehow they just don't discuss the issue on Tuesday, if they do discuss the issue, they will come to the conclusion that the amnesty needs to be extended, and it will be extended.

Why would they need to ??????

[Bangkok Barry]

2 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

i understand not everyone can come up with that at such short notice and under these conditions so if this is your situation i WOULD get an agent on the back burner, as unpalatable as using one may or may not be for you

 

hopefully though this will all be moot by November and local borders will be open again 

I very much doubt that any borders will be open until well into next year. The pandemic is showing no signs at all of going away. Quite the opposite. The only chance is a test that produces a near immediate result, and/or a vaccine. Neither are close.

 

And I have no intention of contributing to the immigration corruption gravy train by giving money to an agent to share. I think I would chose to get out of the cesspit and stay with my sister in the UK until it all blows over, and give Thailand its wet dream of sending money to Thailand for my wife while not stepping in the country myself.

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, Longchop said:

this debacle has not been lost on the thai ladies, just been informed, "my friend boyfriend go home england,  all cheep charlie falang hab no money  go home, only falang hab big money can stay thailand, friend me go pattaya tomorrow.

Time to trade up in other words.  Feel bad for the chap that left, but sure she will be loved anew and he will find a new one later.  Only loose your turn if you leave it appears.

[jomtienisgood]

10 minutes ago, Longchop said:

this debacle has not been lost on the thai ladies, just been informed, "my friend boyfriend go home england,  all cheep charlie falang hab no money  go home, only falang hab big money can stay thailand, friend me go pattaya tomorrow.

Whats he gonna do here?????

[JackThompson]

 

4 hours ago, rimpsstar said:

Many Thais view this current situation as "The foreigners were told at the start of the amnesty that they have until 26th September to leave the country, which is plenty of time for them to make arrangements". The Government and immigration then (in their minds at least) did whatever they could to make sure those remained knew they had to get onto an appropriate Visa. 

Meanwhile, all land-borders are still closed, as well as the other nations in the area, where most of us go when not in Thailand (Vietnam, The PI, Indonesia) - many no longer spending as much time/money in Thailand as before, due to Immigration policy changes.

 

As well, Immigration is still playing the agent-money game - blocking applications for those w/ Thai family on made-up or bent-rules, and refuses to change permitted-stays to Non-B in-country, etc.  All "problems" vanish for an extortion-payment.

 

So, given the situation has not changed in all this time, what "arrangements" were we supposed to make?  Go to our passport-countries, where we have not lived in decades?  Leave our Thai families until some unforseen future date?

 

I "believed" immigration before, so WASTED my 60-day extension.  In hindsight, I should have put off action, not planned ahead, and waited for the auto-extension.  I'd still have that 60-day to use now, if I had been a "bad guy" who didn't plan ahead.  I got an embassy-letter, so at least have until Oct 26 - but many cannot get these.

 

Quote

Many foreigners, however, seem to have interpreted the amnesty as "We can stay until 26th September, and then we have to leave OR we get extended again". I think this is why to many foreigners it seems like madness to expect everyone to now leave, but from the perspective of Thais, they cannot understand how 4-5months has not been enough to do this, or at least get one of the Visas. 

Are the Thais you refer to not aware that Immigration is hideously corrupt?   They, of all people, should know better.  Over 50K to "buy" the Non-B we need, or 35K+ for a Non-O to stay and support our Thai families, to spite having the proven income? 

 

We had no problem with access to the honest MFA for Visas - only immigration + closed-borders creates this situation.  The only window-open, other than a huge extortion-payment, is the embassy-letter.

 

17 hours ago, tonray said:

Perhaps they should have been thinking about saving some cash for an extension

Yes, stop spending money supporting your family at a decent standard-of-living.  Need to save-up to pay the IOs a fat-enveolope through an agent, instead.

Edited September 19, 2020 by JackThompson

[Bangkok Barry]

3 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

As for 800K or 400K baht, neither are large amounts. Those people telling foreigners on amnesty that 'they should have made better plans' sound silly coming from retired people who can't even put together 800,000 baht. THOSE people should have planned better, and had decades, not months under amnesty, to plan.

A very arrogant statement. There are many reasons why anyone might not have or want to keep such an amount in a Thai bank, and for whom it IS a large amount. I'm sure that many locals would find it a large amount too. Maybe you subscribe to the old chestnut that all foreigners are rich. I've read many times over the past few months though how people in places such as the UK and USA feel they can only survive for another month or two on their savings, yet you are arrogant enough to state that $25,000 is nothing to be concerned about.

 

We really don't need to hear from anyone who says it isn't a problem. Much better to hear from those for whom it is. They are the ones who need advice and help. Saying such sums aren't a problem adds absolutely nothing of use to the discussion. Nothing at all.

[Walker88]

As I have written elsewhere, the extension allowed on many visas is being handled almost automatically, despite "Tourists" being in country for 6 months already. It isn't "Oh, I just need a few more days because I haven't gotten to Jim Thompson's House yet". This is 100% Covid-related, and IOs even instruct applicants to put as their reason for requesting an extension: [Covid-19]. We know why we prefer to stay, they know why we prefer to stay, we know they know, they know we know, etc.

 

There seems to be an awareness, unstated, that Covid-free foreigners on visa amnesty are spending money in an otherwise horrific economy, and the fact foreigners prefer to stay in Thailand is a point of pride for a country that has handled Covid as well or better than anyone. Thailand has handled Covid deftly, and every one of us here on amnesty or now visa extensions are spokespeople for Thailand's competence and success simply by our desire to remain in a safe haven. It reflects extremely positively on the Thai Government.

 

Those on amnesty should be making their appointment to go to Muang Thong Thani or wherever to apply, and an appointment is now required because of the numbers involved. The Embassy letter is also required.

 

Now come late October, if a Second Wave has rolled across the planet, I would not be surprised if amnesty was again reinstated, as flights might truly disappear and many nations will be in lockdown (like how the number of Aussies who can return home is limited). For those on visa amnesty now, and who would like to stay, there is no better reason to apply for an extension than to be here, legally, if and when the amnesty is reinstated.

[teacherclaire]

Yes, it's going to rain in most provinces. 

[jomtienisgood]

2 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

Yes, it's going to rain in most provinces. 

5555555. Even all over the world, at some point. 5555555