Fear and confusion in Thailand’s tourism industry as near-bankrupt hotels decline foreign tourists

[FarFlungFalang]

43 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

  God help us if it is a real killer......

Isn't this God's fault?Be kind of strange to inflict all this mayhem just so God could help but then he does move in mysterious ways. 

[Marco100]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

3 out of 4 of my family had it in Thailand.

Nobody wanted to test us for some reason.

My misses was the worst, was sweating on the sofa for 10 days.

I was the longest, bit of a cough and a blocked ear for 2 months.

Patient under Investigation i asuume ?

[BobBKK]

No one thinks the government are not exploiting this for their own ends?  think of the protests if things were normal. Methinks this Covid is a convenient blind. 

[Canuck1966]

8 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

currently 968,905 (dead) people beg to differ.

 

and thats with lockdowns, nobody knows just how huge that number could have been by now if we had left deniers like yourself in charge.

 

 

Who cares?

Shock horror,  humans dying from a virus. 

The world economy is more important than 1 billion lives never mind a paltry 1 million

[metisdead]

A post containing false or misleading information has been removed.

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, DLock said:

This is all crazy talk. We need to open Thailand to tourists now and save the tourism industry...

...just like France did, to great success...

...Oh...wait...

 

 

Cases only indicates tests done that showed a positive.

As long as no distinction is being made between

- positive test results with no syptoms

- positive test results indicating hospitalization

the raw 'case' figures are misleading.

Attached below the France 'death' figures, which put things in a somewhat different perspective.

-

When googling 'covid-19 cases' you can check the cases and deaths per country.

The 2nd wave scare-mongers really should take a look at the contrast between cases and deaths for different countries. 

 

[AndresSP]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The current plan on Samui and Phuket, is to release prisoners from their rooms after 7 days. Then seven more days within the resort confines. Then a release into the island population with a zombie wristband. All at a very high premium over the ordinary prices of hotels, which are quite low now. Appealing? Not for most. Only makes sense if you are planning on coming here for many months. What percentage of the general tourism population does that represent? Nonsensical stupidity. Rules based on a lack of science. Fear mongering. Let us make your stay as uncomfortable as possible. And by the way, you cannot consume alcohol either, during your quarantine. Who comes up with this stuff, and why does the nation tolerate the nonsense, the utter incompetence, the malfeasance? How much longer will they tolerate the extremely regressive army? The toxic army is despised like never before. They have over extended their welcome. They need to go, and the sooner, the better. They know that. We know that. 

 

What can one say? Desperation is setting in. Heads are going to roll. Just returned from Samui. Utter devastation. 90% of the businesses on the beach road were closed, and hundreds of hotels are closed and for sale, at half price. Trillions of baht are going to be lost here. Annually. Tourism will NEVER recover. Not in our lifetimes. Too much timidity. Too much cowardice. Too little juice and creativity. Such small minds. 
 
And now, the few remaining tourists here are being asked to leave? They should be given free visas, and 10,000 baht vouchers to stay! Commendation letters too. And for incoming tourists, free quarantine. All expenses, including meals, picked up by the army, using their multi trillion baht slush fund. 

 

My guess is that about 90% of the population supports the youth, this time around. Go Prayuth go. You are no longer needed, wanted, or even remotely productive. 

 

 

Well said even if a bit harsh. 

 

The inability of the Thai decision makers to think and plan at least 2 steps ahead is truly bewildering. Painted themselves into a corner through fearmongering, hysteria and xenophobia for a short term political gain only to ruin the economy and well-being of millions upon millions as the result. It's been obvious for a long time there was no end-game for this strategy. 

 

Doing the right thing at this point would mean losing face big time which not gonna happen with their mentality. Those rulers need to go and quickly. 
 

[from the home of CC]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

Studies in the UK are showing that the countries that are reopening successfully to tourism are relying on airport testing for the virus both before and after flights as the most reliable screening method.

 

yes that seems to working out fine lol..

[Canuck1966]

Its all because the old codgers who run the country don't want to risk a minuscule chance of getting Chinese flu. They are willing to ruin the country for their own selfish reasons 

[Canuck1966]

Tourism is roaring in the UK. 

[Canuck1966]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

yes that seems to working out fine lol..

Its perfectly fine. People have the mental capacity in the uk to realise that there is inherent risk to every aspect of life. 

Nobody is worried about Chinese flu and carry on their lives accordingly 

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, b17 said:

There are two main problems with your logic: 1. Your claim rejects the law of large numbers, and 2. It assumes that one of two things happen; you die or you're 100% fine. For every one person that dies, 19 more require hospitalization, 18 of those will have heart disease for the rest of their life, 10 will have permanent lung damage, 3 will have strokes, and 2 will have neurological damage. 

None of that happened to me, the misses or my kid when we caught it.

(My personal numbers 75% showed no long term effects, 25% showed no sign of infection)

You forgot the largest numbers

3. 10,000* people will suffer no serious or lasting effects.

4. 100,000* people will catch it and have no visible symptoms.

 

Your list of outcomes is entirely faulty, and you have confirmed my opinion of you.

* Feel free to insert numbers to reflect your own prejudices.

Edited September 22, 2020 by BritManToo

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

10 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

currently 968,905 (dead) people beg to differ.

 

and thats with lockdowns, nobody knows just how huge that number could have been by now if we had left deniers like yourself in charge.

 

 

That is one in 10,000. And millions have died of hunger due to the lockdown. Also, it is very unlikely that an effective vaccine can be found, at least for two reasons:

1. Covid19 is 80% identical with SARS, and to this day, no effective vaccine against SARS has been found. 

2. IF an effective vaccine was to be found, its antibodies would most likely only last a couple of months, as it has been reported that some people, who was infected in April, re-infected and had symptoms again in August. So, it looks like covid19 antibodies disappear quickly. This would mean that we would have to be vaccinated every two or three months. A hopeless scenario, of course. At most, the antibodies would last a year or a little more, and it has been shown that antibodies from those who get vaccinated for seasonal flu have antibodies for around a year, and those who got SARS had antibodies for around 18 months. 

 

And a million deaths is not a lot. Here is a list of deaths (worldwide) from some selected things this year:

Covid19: 968,000.

Influenza: 354,000.

Hunger: 6,468,000.

In the traffic: 970,000.

Malaria: 704,000.

Suicide: 770,666.

HIV/AIDS: 1,208,124.

Smoking: 3,592,629.

Alcohol: 1,979,450.

 

So, as you can see, the corona is well within a frame of deaths that we normally accept. Also even if it would be double or triple the above.

 

Another fact that is interesting to observe is that the danger of the corona is by the WHO rated as "2", on a scale from 1 to 5. Seasonal flu belongs to "1", the Spanish flu around a hundred years ago, belongs to "5". Again, the covid19 is a "2". Not that serious at all! 

 

And apart from those who die of hunger due to the economy shutdown, hundreds of millions are driven into severe poverty, suicide, here in Scandinavia cancer screening and other important things are beng postponed due to the corona, most likely resulting in a higher death rate for some diseases, people are losing their businesses, their homes, more divorces, more drinking, etc., etc., etc. - just so that the 96 old blind, deaf, and senile Olga can live 6 months longer. Those dying of starvation are mostly children with a long life ahead of them.

 

Just some thoughts...

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

None of that happened to me, the misses or my kid when we caught it.

You forgot the largest numbers

3. 10,000 people will suffer no serious or lasting effects.

4. 100,000 people will catch it and have no visible symptoms.

 

Your list of outcomes is entirely faulty, and you have confirmed my opinion of you.

You didnt actually catch it though , you just had a cough for a few days , which is quite common in CM during the burning season 

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Highly contagious pandemic = 80% of infected dead IMHO (not .065% dead).

This is a trivial illness that everyone will get, and hardly anyone would normally worry about.

Same as colds, flu, herpes, HPV ............... et al.

Exactly! Just my thoughts! So, the veery interesting question is: Why are the governments doing this? Why?

[DrTuner]

6 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

I've noticed in the debate re lockdown, people pro lockdown are quite aggressive and insulting. Perhaps not so bad here, certainly on bookface. Also like to lump any opposition in together with the loonies. I think it is either a hostile reaction generated by fear, or a Stockholm syndrome particularly in the case of those defending Premier Andrews in Victoria Australia. Some very clever ones are using it as a first line of defence, defending the indefensible, attack being one of the best forms of defence, for when the inevitable analysis emerges that extreme lockdown and forcing the world into another great depression was not the best solution.  

Human nature. Every time a certain section of people, like jail guards or concentration camp capos, smell the chance of getting some power, they'll start shouting like drill sergeants. A swift kick to the nuts usually grounds them quickly.

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

7 hours ago, DLock said:

This is all crazy talk. We need to open Thailand to tourists now and save the tourism industry...

 

...just like France did, to great success...

 

...Oh...wait...

 

Many countries will go bankrupt if they keep shutting down the economy. And the vaccination thing won't work. For at least two reasons. So, there simply is no choice but normalising things again.

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

7 hours ago, MikeN said:

Anybody who mixes the contagion rate with the fatality rate should keep their opinions to themselves perhaps ? Especially when they compound their statistical ignorance by mixing the percentages of infected with the percentages of the total population....or was that a deliberate distortion ? Approx 24 million cases have been resolved one way or another, nearly one million dead and the rest are cured. That is far more than 0.065% fatality rate !

You are forgetting the unreported number. They are at least 10 times the reported ones, imho. Maybe 20 times. The mortality rate of the corona, according to leading scientists from Stanford, Harvard, etc., is between 0.1 and 0.4 percent. Seasonal flu is 0.1.

[Canuck1966]

I'm surprised most of the TV members dare leave the house.... for fear of becoming a RTA statistic. That's way more of a killer than Chinese flu, at approximately 100 people per day

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

7 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

If they didn't test for it like Thailand the death rate would be negligible and heaps of people would have died of viral pneumonia.Simple really it's just a flu. 

Actually it is a cold virus...

[Flying Saucage]

4 hours ago, b17 said:

I guess I am one of those that you claim to be  "really stupid" , as the number of people dying from Covid doesn't reflect the extent of the 'serious impacts later' that are very real. I am utilizing data presented in the well known (for non stupid people, at least) Lancet journal, which has just about the best reputation for accuracy within the world of medical data. 

 

There are two main problems with your logic: 1. Your claim rejects the law of large numbers, and 2. It assumes that one of two things happen; you die or you're 100% fine. For every one person that dies, 19 more require hospitalization, 18 of those will have heart disease for the rest of their life, 10 will have permanent lung damage, 3 will have strokes, and 2 will have neurological damage. 

Clearly, one wonders how people could be so stupid to believe nonsense, but it seems that many people do. 

 

 

I understand your points, but like to point out that all these numbers very much also depend on the quality of the health care system in each country, and on the fact that the medics and scientists today know much more about the virus, its transmission and the treatmeant of infected people today than six months ago. This means that today in countries with a good health care system, the risk of severe effects on the healths of even deaths is orders of magnitude lower than six months ago. Countries with such a good health care system are mainly developed countries, but Thailand always claims to have a good system as well, and generally I agree to this.

 

So, when we now compare the daily numbers of deaths every day per 100 million people which died from/with Covid, we talk about single of dual-digit numbers, which is really not much any more.

 

Now, is it allowed and reasonable to compare this with daily traffic deaths? Many will say no, because traffic accidents are not contagious. I agree to this generally, however in the countries I mentioned above, due to social distancing and partly wearing masks, the reproduction factor R for Covid infections is around 1 now, only. This means that in developed countries, where you have now around 10 traffic deaths today per 100 million people, plus 10 Covid deaths, also tomorrow you will have about the some numbers, and in three days or two weeks it will still be similar, despite the mere number of infections might rise due to the so called "second wave". There is no second wave in deaths! And that means, yes, it is reasonable to compare traffic deaths with Covid deaths, in my opinion. With R=4, I would agree that it is not reasonable to compare Covid and traffic, but with R=1 this is another story.

 

So, what about the people who survive Covid and suffer for the rest of their life, which you mentioned above? Also for this it is reasonable to compare Covid and traffic, as also significant numbers of poeple surviving traffic accidents will have health problems later.

 

Now what does this mean for our daily life with the pandemic? Do you stop to take part in traffic, as it is as dangerous as Covid? Do you stop leaving your house, because maybe today is the day when a truck driver will flaten you? Hardly. Should we stop our daily life and give up all or freedom for Covid? Hardly as well. We should be careful, alerted, sensible, and not behave like "Covidiots".

 

But it must be allowed that we continue our life and do not lose our freedom to be together with our friends and families in Thailand.

 

Over the last century, the countries and societies on this planet decided to accept the risk of traffic accidents and even deaths, because it is for the better for the development, freedom and welfare of the society. Nevertheless, some countries are working hard to reduce traffic deaths, especially in the Western world, maybe lead by Scandinavia. Some other countries do not care at all, especially Thailand, (almost) number one in the world for traffic deaths per capita, with numbers around 10 times higher than in other countries.

 

What we see in Thailand today regarding Covid on the one hand and the daily traffic carnageon the other hand, is a paranoia and schizophrenia of the whole society.

 

So, taken into account all this, I agree that one should not take Covid too easy, especially in countries with a weak healths system. But in developed countries, and in developing countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, the danger coming from a Covid infection now is quite small, and it is really time to relax a little, to open the countries and to focus more on a recovering of the economy.

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[Airalee]

8 hours ago, b17 said:

the number of people dying from Covid doesn't reflect the extent of the 'serious impacts later' that are very real.

We haven’t even gotten to “later” yet.  
 

How could you possibly know they are “very real”?

 

The Lancet already has egg on their face

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200605/lancet-retracts-hydroxychloroquine-study

 

Why was this study from 2005 buried?

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread

 

I’ll jump right to the conclusion for you

“Conclusion

Chloroquine, a relatively safe, effective and cheap drug used for treating many human diseases including malaria, amoebiosis and human immunodeficiency virus is effective in inhibiting the infection and spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. The fact that the drug has significant inhibitory antiviral effect when the susceptible cells were treated either prior to or after infection suggests a possible prophylactic and therapeutic use.”

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

 

I’m with @BritManToo

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Airalee

[TheFreqFlyer]

17 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

You mean six months of Thailand lockdown. The world has mostly moved on and there is limited tourism going on in Europe and America. Thai government has managed to destroy this sector for at least the next few years.

Nonsense. First of all, Thailand isn't locked down...it's completely open domestically just the borders are hermetically sealed.

 

And no, the world hasn't mostly moved on. The majority of the world remains closed or restricted. There is tourism going on domestically in Thailand and in Europe it's being impacted again by new restrictions such as Hungary closing completely for foreigners once again. And Poland not allowing French arrivals in, so you have to get creative and travel via Germany and such things.

 

The world is far from back to normal. 

[daveAustin]

Quote

near-bankrupt hotels decline foreign tourists

Well go bankrupt then.

Edited September 22, 2020 by daveAustin

[daveAustin]

6 hours ago, OumarhindaOunsingha said:

You are forgetting the unreported number. They are at least 10 times the reported ones, imho. Maybe 20 times.

China x100

[RichardColeman]

21 hours ago, torturedsole said:

 

 

Six months of global lockdown is way past the point of no return.  

 

I think you are wrong - six months for those with no saving I will agree with. The rest with savings and managing to strive to get to the high season will be destroyed by March 2021 with not tourism. So, 6 months for those not prepared and 12 months for those that tried.

 

All I see is Thais either poor, destitute or ignoring the fact their country is about to dramatically slide down the Asian pecking order

[Jack Hna]

19 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I think you are wrong - six months for those with no saving I will agree with. The rest with savings and managing to strive to get to the high season will be destroyed by March 2021 with not tourism. So, 6 months for those not prepared and 12 months for those that tried.

 

All I see is Thais either poor, destitute or ignoring the fact their country is about to dramatically slide down the Asian pecking order

You mean all I saw whilst you were here. Right?

[aldriglikvid]

It is correct that Europe currently is experiencing a "second wave", however - keep in mind that almost all head of states have said, quite clearly, that another shut down is not on the table. 

 

 

[Tounge Thaied]

Calm down!! It's all sorted... 

[adammike]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

I think you are wrong - six months for those with no saving I will agree with. The rest with savings and managing to strive to get to the high season will be destroyed by March 2021 with not tourism. So, 6 months for those not prepared and 12 months for those that tried.

 

All I see is Thais either poor, destitute or ignoring the fact their country is about to dramatically slide down the Asian pecking order

"To get to the high season"? Good luck with that one.