Natural cooling ideas.

[Richrd]

I want minimise use, and try and achieve cooling through more natural methods.

 

Is this the correct forum.

 

I'm in the final stages of building a 2 bed condo, I have aircon unit in ceiling and also looking at a Mr Ken helicopter fan in the main room. Any ideas or other measures that can help me reduce the need for aircon. Including ideas and products that may help.

 

Thanks, Richard

[blackcab]

Moved to the DIY forum.

[Rookiescot]

I have seen Thai houses and restaurants that use a water cascade on the roof tiles/sheeting to cool that which presumably stops the house heating up during the day.

Such a system is probably not very efficient and will consume a lot of water which is becoming a limited resource in many parts of Thailand.

Fact is mate this is Thailand. Its hot and humid most of the time. For comfort there really is no substitute for air-con. 

[rumak]

There's ALWAYS gonna be a few guys that tell you their house is cool as a cucumber without A/C.

 

There are ways, with some or a lot of effort/money  that a house here can be kept cooler .(a bit !)

A friend built adobe style with double walls and other features.   A year later added air conditioners.

 

Keeping sun off the roof /  walls as much as possible is IMO  the first consideration.  Once the walls heat up.... its an oven

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

The main issue is the humidity.  There are various methods of passive ventilation that will leave some feeling just fine.  But in this humidity,  AC is a must - for me anyway.  

 

Edit:  You say you have a ceiling AC.  Depending on where located you should be able to keep the whole condo comfortable by placing ceiling fans in the bedrooms (or wherever the AC is not) and leaving the doors open to circulate.  My 11kBTU AC is in the bedroom but I have shutters and a door to open to the main living area and along with two ceiling fans it will keep 60m² or so very comfortable.

Edited October 4, 2020 by bankruatsteve

[kuma]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

The main issue is the humidity.  There are various methods of passive ventilation that will leave some feeling just fine.  But in this humidity,  AC is a must - for me anyway.  

 

Edit:  You say you have a ceiling AC.  Depending on where located you should be able to keep the whole condo comfortable by placing ceiling fans in the bedrooms (or wherever the AC is not) and leaving the doors open to circulate.  My 11kBTU AC is in the bedroom but I have shutters and a door to open to the main living area and along with two ceiling fans it will keep 60m² or so very comfortable.

BK Steve. Excellent teply in a great thread fir me, just was looking for this topic and there it us brand new and up frint. Thanks to OP.

I am just gwtting a house built. I asked for a 1m crawl space underneath, with no wall around....thinking it will allow considerable airflow under the house and help a lot with coolibg and dehumidification.

The bulider has a surcharge to do so as pillars need to be strong enough to support house with out soil underneath to help.

My question to the forum, does anyone have experience raising their hone and keeping it open...does it assist with cooling and dehumidification or should expect the same outcone?

Cheers in advance for on topix replies.

 

 I know OP has a condo but topic is cooling so sorry if flipping to house feels like hijackng, lol. But still on topic re cooling, imo

 

[teacherclaire]

Here are some good tips that really help.

 

       https://www.capitaland.com/international/en/about-capitaland/newsroom/inside/2015/jun/inside-201506-10-hot-tips-to-cool-your-home-without-air-conditioning.html#menu-lang-main

[sometimewoodworker]

16 hours ago, kuma said:

My question to the forum, does anyone have experience raising their hone and keeping it open...does it assist with cooling and dehumidification or should expect the same outcone?

Yes. Maybe. Yes. No.

 

more important is to keep the sun off the walls as long as possible.
 

I have a minimum of 2.5 metres overhang and low-E glass

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Lacessit]

Ensure the roof space is vented properly, otherwise it's a heat trap. Either double cavity walls, or as other posters have said, wide eaves to keep the sun off. Thickest insulation in the roof cavity.

[whaleboneman]

Got any snakes under there?

sometimeswoodworker

Edited October 5, 2020 by whaleboneman
clarity

[tonray]

The problem is that over time, even though you may feel it's cool enough without AC daily usage, your walls will be subject to mold growth, especially in rainy season...and once that begins, it's virtually impossible to get rid of. Bite the bullet and run the air to dehunidify if nothing else...

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

The problem is that over time, even though you may feel it's cool enough without AC daily usage, your walls will be subject to mold growth, especially in rainy season...and once that begins, it's virtually impossible to get rid of. Bite the bullet and run the air to dehunidify if nothing else...

No problems with mould, same house for 8 years.

Only ever use aircon occasionally in 1 bedroom (set at 29c), windows open most of the day.

 

back to OP ......

Easiest way is to just get used to the higher temperatures and use a fan.

29.7c (70%) in my living room now, windows and doors open, perfectly comfortable.

Edited October 5, 2020 by BritManToo

[millymoopoo]

IMO for a condo (apartment) keeping the sun off the walls is helpful, if you're the top floor condo, roof insulation is also very helpful, but after than, other than A/C there's not much else you can do.

Keep in mind ceiling fans do not cool, they just move air, it's the contact of this moving air onto skin that has a cooling effect via evaporation of sweet. The roof watering (evaporative) cooling system works in a similiar way.

For a house I'm not in favour of the elevated style, houses built directly on the ground benefit from the ambient temperature of the ground, if it's 43c outside in the sun and the ground temp is 26c then the floor indoors will be 26c. Thick roof insulation, and full shading of the walls will help to keep the house close to the ground temp.

Further to that a matrix/s of 100mm pipe work in the ground under the slab, prior to building the house may have a small fan connected to the start/s with the end/s being outlet/s into the house, thus helping to keep the house at ground temp.

Of course in tropical humid climates refrigerated A/C is the only effective way to reduce humidity.

[bankruatsteve]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

29.7c (70%) in my living room now, windows and doors open, perfectly comfortable.

I was at 29C/84% but I was NOT comfortable and turned on the AC.  Everyone has a different comfort level.  Just sayin.

[Jennyau]

We have walls of glass around the bottom floor of our villa. It gets the morning sun and heats up the room. We had good quality window tinting installed and it made a huge difference. I would run the Ac for a while each morning to cool it down again while the sun was on it and close all the curtains to block the sun out. Now we no longer need to do that. Worked well for us.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, bankruatsteve said:

I was at 29C/84% but I was NOT comfortable and turned on the AC.  Everyone has a different comfort level.  Just sayin.

The more you use it, the more you want it.

It's easy to get used to higher temperatures, but it'll never happen if you frequently use air conditioning.

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

It's easy to get used to higher temperatures, but it'll never happen if you frequently use air conditioning.

Like I initially said, the humidity is the key factor for me.  Never have been comfortable in high humidity and never will.  I've lived in the desert, adobe style house, and used the AC very little.

[verticalift]

I had the inside walls of my home lined with Q-Con blocks to insulate the house. I also extended the roof overhangs out 1 meter from the outside walls to keep the sun from hitting the walls mid-day. Final step was lots of air-flow. Recognize what the prevailing winds are where you live. Get rid of small windows and install either much larger windows or bi-fold doors, opening up the house as best you can to maximize the air flow inside your house.

[AlfHuy]

Spend your weekends in shopping malls. Airco for free. That what most thais do.

[spidermike007]

19 hours ago, kuma said:

BK Steve. Excellent teply in a great thread fir me, just was looking for this topic and there it us brand new and up frint. Thanks to OP.

I am just gwtting a house built. I asked for a 1m crawl space underneath, with no wall around....thinking it will allow considerable airflow under the house and help a lot with coolibg and dehumidification.

The bulider has a surcharge to do so as pillars need to be strong enough to support house with out soil underneath to help.

My question to the forum, does anyone have experience raising their hone and keeping it open...does it assist with cooling and dehumidification or should expect the same outcone?

Cheers in advance for on topix replies.

 

 I know OP has a condo but topic is cooling so sorry if flipping to house feels like hijackng, lol. But still on topic re cooling, imo

 

The roof is absolutely critical. From everything I have read, you would be better off investing in roofing materials that provide insulation. There is a new generation of roofing tile, that provides a level of R22 minimum. It reflects alot of heat. In addition you can use fiber insulation in the attic, and exhaust fans both in the house, near the ceiling, and in the attic. Expect huge difference in temps. 

 

The money you are spending by raising the house is substantial. 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

Got any snakes under there?

sometimeswoodworker

Yes but the geese and kitten deals with them

 

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Yes but the geese and kitten deals with them

Cute kitten.  Some would say those kind of snakes are much better to have around than the critters they eat.  ????

[sometimewoodworker]

41 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Cute kitten.  Some would say those kind of snakes are much better to have around than the critters they eat.  ????

Thanks, she thinks she is, she will go after almost everything that moves.

 

 

[moose7117]

20 hours ago, kuma said:

BK Steve. Excellent teply in a great thread fir me, just was looking for this topic and there it us brand new and up frint. Thanks to OP.

I am just gwtting a house built. I asked for a 1m crawl space underneath, with no wall around....thinking it will allow considerable airflow under the house and help a lot with coolibg and dehumidification.

The bulider has a surcharge to do so as pillars need to be strong enough to support house with out soil underneath to help.

My question to the forum, does anyone have experience raising their hone and keeping it open...does it assist with cooling and dehumidification or should expect the same outcone?

Cheers in advance for on topix replies.

 

 I know OP has a condo but topic is cooling so sorry if flipping to house feels like hijackng, lol. But still on topic re cooling, imo

 

It is very common in Australia to do exactly this.

The idea of the slab being directly on the ground is a relatively new thing in Oz and it is usually done for cost saving and ease of construction.

In North Queensland, which has a climate reasonably similar to a lot of thailand, many houses are on "Stumps" ranging from 300mm to 2 m in height.

This does increase airflow under the structure adding a cooling effect as well as providing storage space.

If you want more info, Google "Hi-Set Queenslander".

Another Idea is to have large Areas outside the house covered by the roof but outside of the walls, like in awning or overhanging roof, this provides shade for the walls helping cooling.

Butterfly Roofs are another option. 

I used to live in a container on the edge of the Australian desert and thats VERY hot. the camp builders used to put a false roof over the tops of the containers to provide shade for the container, they only put uprights and a tin roof on that, no wall to top section, this also promotes airflow and lowered the temp inside container considerably when compared to unshaded ones.

 

Moose

Edited October 5, 2020 by moose7117
bad spelling

[chilly07]

Although not entirely practical a traditional Thai timber house with a high pitched roof  and no ceilings overhanging eaves louvered walls and windows and ceiling fans works well. Located on a north facing hillside you won't need a/c! Don't forget to put it on concrete stilts and access stair but remember termites can fly so install hungry ghekos!

[bankruatsteve]

The OP said he is finishing off a condo.  Assuming that is part of a complex, there probably isn't much he can do regarding the roof, walls, or structure.  @Richrd please clarify.

[stouricks]

Would Whirlybird ventilators do any good?

[KarenBravo]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:14 PM, rumak said:

There's ALWAYS gonna be a few guys that tell you their house is cool as a cucumber without A/C.

 

There are ways, with some or a lot of effort/money  that a house here can be kept cooler .(a bit !)

A friend built adobe style with double walls and other features.   A year later added air conditioners.

 

Keeping sun off the roof /  walls as much as possible is IMO  the first consideration.  Once the walls heat up.... its an oven

 

 

My house does not need air-con (yes, really). I designed it with the basics of all houses built in the tropics all over the world before air-con was invented.

 

1. Very large volume roof with air flow (Thai style roof). Heat cannot build up.

2. Large over-hanging eves. These jut out 2 mtrs from the wall and keep sunlight (and rain) off the walls. By 09:00 am there is no sun on the walls.

3. Tall ceilings. This varies from a minimum of 3.5 mtrs to 5 mtrs. Hot air rises above head level.

4. Alignment. My house faces NE. The prevailing winds here are NE and SW. Always have a breeze inside the house helped by lots of windows.

5. On stilts (this stops heat conduction from the ground.

 

Of course, this doesn't help with a condo. There is some kind of nano-paint that you use on the outside walls that reflect heat and keeps the inside cool.

 

 

[kuma]

4 hours ago, millymoopoo said:

IMO for a condo (apartment) keeping the sun off the walls is helpful, if you're the top floor condo, roof insulation is also very helpful, but after than, other than A/C there's not much else you can do.

Keep in mind ceiling fans do not cool, they just move air, it's the contact of this moving air onto skin that has a cooling effect via evaporation of sweet. The roof watering (evaporative) cooling system works in a similiar way.

For a house I'm not in favour of the elevated style, houses built directly on the ground benefit from the ambient temperature of the ground, if it's 43c outside in the sun and the ground temp is 26c then the floor indoors will be 26c. Thick roof insulation, and full shading of the walls will help to keep the house close to the ground temp.

Further to that a matrix/s of 100mm pipe work in the ground under the slab, prior to building the house may have a small fan connected to the start/s with the end/s being outlet/s into the house, thus helping to keep the house at ground temp.

Of course in tropical humid climates refrigerated A/C is the only effective way to reduce humidity.

Inreresting point on ground level vs raised....will investigate further, cheers

[kuma]

2 hours ago, moose7117 said:

It is very common in Australia to do exactly this.

The idea of the slab being directly on the ground is a relatively new thing in Oz and it is usually done for cost saving and ease of construction.

In North Queensland, which has a climate reasonably similar to a lot of thailand, many houses are on "Stumps" ranging from 300mm to 2 m in height.

This does increase airflow under the structure adding a cooling effect as well as providing storage space.

If you want more info, Google "Hi-Set Queenslander".

Another Idea is to have large Areas outside the house covered by the roof but outside of the walls, like in awning or overhanging roof, this provides shade for the walls helping cooling.

Butterfly Roofs are another option. 

I used to live in a container on the edge of the Australian desert and thats VERY hot. the camp builders used to put a false roof over the tops of the containers to provide shade for the container, they only put uprights and a tin roof on that, no wall to top section, this also promotes airflow and lowered the temp inside container considerably when compared to unshaded ones.

 

Moose

Thanks moose for the comprehensive reply and link. This is what i was thinking so great to see some validation. I also envisioned adding retractable awnings on E and W over a permanent overhang...have a great view here of the hills and want to maximize that. Now considering either 300 or 900mm pillars, the latter if we want liveable space underneath

Cheers