American expat avoids jail for negative review - reaches settlement with Koh Chang hotel

[DualSportBiker]

3 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Thanks.

 

But reality and idealism are rarely the same thing.

 

People will read the headlines. People will be shocked. That will factor in massively whether or not people will chose to come or not. Having someone sent to jail for comments made online isn't right or just. It's ridiculous and people will quite rightly not like it.

 

The idea was to save the hotel's reputation. They made it a hundred times worse. This is what the kids would call an 'epic fail'. 

You might be right. There will be a huge sway of those who see this that think there are no limitations on what can or should be said. That opinions are protected and need no basis in reality. That the impact of any opinion is not the responsibility of the author and the consequences are the 'fault' or responsibility of the subject of the opinion. 

 

That is an opinion I can't support.

 

For all those who think that, consider when someone accuses you of something you did not or would not do. The accusation changes your ability to make a living, employ people so they can make a living, operate a service that people want to acquire and now can't. Would you just say that they are welcome to their opinion? That free-speech reigns supreme and you can't control the opinions of others, regardless of the truth of the accusation and the impact it has? I don't believe anyone who says that they would not respond to a false accusation that damages their income.

[rkidlad]

Just now, DualSportBiker said:

You might be right. There will be a huge sway of those who see this that think there are no limitations on what can or should be said. That opinions are protected and need no basis in reality. That the impact of any opinion is not the responsibility of the author and the consequences are the 'fault' or responsibility of the subject of the opinion. 

 

That is an opinion I can't support.

 

For all those who think that, consider when someone accuses you of something you did not or would not do. The accusation changes your ability to make a living, employ people so they can make a living, operate a service that people want to acquire and now can't. Would you just say that they are welcome to their opinion? That free-speech reigns supreme and you can't control the opinions of others, regardless of the truth of the accusation and the impact it has? I don't believe anyone who says that they would not respond to a false accusation that damages their income.

Again, you're erroneously conflating what you believe to be right with what other people should do and think. The two aren't the same. 

 

What's the old expression, "You wanna be right or you wanna be rich?". 

 

 

[marinediscoking]

Amazing stupid settlement and it will be viewed by most overseas will view this as a north Korean tactic as others have said. All the Hotel hotel had to do was admit they overreacted also, ask for a simple apology from the American and this would have finished the whole thing.  The newspaper editors love stories like this just like we do here on TV.

[poohy]

Faced with jail, I too would lie through my teeth and apologize

 

Western media will see through this poor PR apology  stunt!

Neither Thailand the hotel or the bloke are winners here 

[Curt1591]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy. This will not go over well, internationally. Everyone will see right through this badly engineered PR stunt. When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

 ...  many of us would prefer to "apologize".

 

I would imagine that many, if not most, would simply pay the corkage or go elsewhere if it was an issue. Few would toss a hissy-fit, let alone go on such a rant.  

[DualSportBiker]

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Again, you're erroneously conflating what you believe to be right with what other people should do and think. The two aren't the same. 

 

What's the old expression, "You wanna be right or you wanna be rich?". 

 

 

The law here, in the UK and Australia agree with me. As for that expression, do I want to have standards and ethics, or be rich? That is a false dichotomy. I am successful, very comfortable and make an effort to be ethical in what I do and say.

[DirtyHarry55]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Trolling is what people do on internet forums and I doubt any country has a specific 'anti-trolling' law.

 

If that's all that "many tourists or potential tourists" take from it, they need to educate themselves a bit more and be aware that Thailand has laws and as draconian and inappropriate as some may be, they are still Thailand's laws.

 

The bud nipping initiated by the hotel in Thailand was ignored by the guy repeatedly posting defamatory comments in Thailand.

 

Som nam-nah

Yea or Travel Sites warn customers with BIG BOLD letters that they can be Arrested for posting negative reviews lets see how Thai Hotels will like that then.

 

Som nam-nah

[rumak]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Publicly grovelling and reading from a script in a desperate attempt to avoid time in a Thai jail.

 

I'm sure nobody will be able to see through this ????.

You got it right.   But seems like a few members here don't see how clear it all is. 

 

BUT,  that said........ the old saying "hindsight is 20/20  comes to mind.   So often just better to walk away or keep

ones mouth shut.     Sure some keyboard warriors will disagree, as in the past .   Maybe we will see them one day

reaching similar settlements  ?

 

[aroiaroi]

3 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

I don't believe anyone who says that they would not respond to a false accusation that damages their income.

I get your point but the story dramatically changed trajectory once news went international.  It's exposed the ugly underbelly of Thailands draconian, sledgehammer-to-swat-a-fly defemation laws.

The interesting part is the settlement details.
The hotel had a chance here minimise damage to themselves and Thailands tourism industry by coming to a smooth, mature settlement.
 

Instead it has demanded a set of pathetic, grovelling apologies. The hotel comes accross as immature, a bully, and vindictive. In the bigger scheme of things, it's a terrible business decision, a self-inflicted 1 star review.

 

[Moo 2]

It's a lesson for both sides, the Internet can be a very powerful tool, especially if used outside Thailand!

 

    "Soldiers, never interrupt an enemy who is about to make a mistake".     Napoleon

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, DualSportBiker said:

The law here, in the UK and Australia agree with me. As for that expression, do I want to have standards and ethics, or be rich? That is a false dichotomy. I am successful, very comfortable and make an effort to be ethical in what I do and say.

That's a lovely insight into your personal life, but most businesses can't afford to be as moral as you. 

 

They filed a case in order to have comments removed. This was done in order to preserve their image and maintain healthy profits. What they have achieved is seemingly the opposite. Anyone with half a brain could have told them that involving police could mean he spends time in jail. If that kind of story gets out, then it'll just make it far worse.

 

Sometimes all you need is a little bit of foresight. 

 

 

 

 

[tukadadoll]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy. This will not go over well, internationally. Everyone will see right through this badly engineered PR stunt. When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

I believe its called blackmail?

[vinny41]

28 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

They do need to be aware.

 

How about a disclaimer on all travel sites where it states you can be imprisoned for negative reviews of hotels in Thailand. Good idea? 

And could go further with the disclaimer such as 

we are not responsible for user generated content – but  we claim ownership of all posts / content

and that your reviews will generate huge income for us and it return we will give you zlich

Can't see many people writing reviews if such disclaimer were uploaded

 

 

[rott]

4 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

I too have studied dogs. Sometimes they put their tail down. He works here too though. Damn, they are all about 'making a wrong a right.' Petty, in my view.

 

But IMO, it is still a big inconvenience to not be able to bring in me own drink.

Do you often take your own drink into the restaurant of a 4 star hotel and expect not to get charged corkage.? 

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy. This will not go over well, internationally. Everyone will see right through this badly engineered PR stunt. When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

And in European countries many people if given the choice would prefer to "apologize" once they become aware of the huge costs of a civil court case and the possibility of paying for both sides legal costs and damages if case goes against them

 

[rott]

7 minutes ago, tukadadoll said:

I believe its called blackmail?

The law says that you "do not impair the reputation" of another. 

Also that "truth is not a defence in a private matter".

 

Sections 326 and 330 (Defamation). 

Thai Criminal Code. 

 

 

[Flying Saucage]

So the hotel solved the issue in a very mafia-style manner, by dictating the "delinquent", whose crime simply was writing reviews on Trip Advisor and Google, to grovel and apologize.

 

And, the hotel was so "generous" to solve it in this "mutual" way only because of the international dismay their previously intended outcome of jailing this customer would have created.

 

One thing is sure: I will never ever book a stay in this hotel. Not one single night, even not order a soda water there. I will avoid it and the other hotels owned by this influental Thai guy, as I avoid stepping in dog turd. And I will advice any other visitor of Koh Chang I will talk to in future to do the same, to avoid such hassles might happen to him.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[KKr]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy. This will not go over well, internationally. Everyone will see right through this badly engineered PR stunt. When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

well, well, well, so 
they should not have dropped the charges, and he would have vindicated himself in court and countersued for defamation.
You mean along those lines ... .?

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

Yes OK he so compared how the Management treat Staff as to slaves but is it a Lie?

In his opinion that might be truth.

No, he admitted he lied. 
 

1 hour ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

Lots of people working in Hotels complain they are treated like slaves

There’s a huge difference between someone saying he’s being treated like a slave vs. someone publicly accusing someone else of slavery. 

 

1 hour ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

in English we call it a SIMILE or Figure of speech.

Not sure who you mean when you say “we”. It doesn’t include me. It’s a serious accusation and a nasty defamation. No one needs to accept someone (wrongly) making such accusations. I would have made this guy pay for his actions, whether in Thailand or wherever. 

[Emdog]

"3. He must contact the Embassy of the United States with the truth of the matter."

I can see how that works out:

"Mr Ambassador, sorry to interrupt your meeting with the generals, but we just got this important contact" (letter in a bottle, email, neck massage?)

Opens email, reads message: "My bad"

Gonna punish him by sending him back to USA?

 

[aroiaroi]

This crazy story is starting to break internationally.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-09/us-man-wesley-barnes-avoid-jail-thailand-over-bad-resort-review/12748666

It's completely backfired on the hotel. A settlement consisting of grovelling apologies ? Who are the children making these terrible business decisions ? Heads should roll.

 

[Kaopad999]

They should also revoke his work permit. Totally unacceptable behavior from a grown man

Edited October 9, 2020 by Kaopad999

[Flying Saucage]

4 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

This crazy story is starting to break internationally.
 

...and many more newspapers will follow I think.

 

People in the West and the newspapers there understand quite well how dictatorships and corrupt totalitarian banana republics work, whereas some Western expats in Thailand obviously tend to forget these things after living in Thailand too long already. 

[Kaopad999]

4 hours ago, rkidlad said:

What could one take away from this? Write a bad review, get arrested and put in jail, and then apologise and say you were lying. It's still the same message; write a bad review and we'll send you to prison. 

 

 

That is total nonsense and you know it. 
it was NOT just 'a bad review'
It was a series of trolling comments and attacks towards the hotel to try and destroy their business. 
I would have done exactly the same thing if it were my business.
He got exactly what he deserved.

Som Nam Na!

Edited October 9, 2020 by Kaopad999

[cedel]

I wonder if he and his wife got the 100.000 back , and if they had to pay something besides a lawyer...maybe a compensation to the hotel manager?  hum...

[spidermike007]

26 minutes ago, KKr said:

well, well, well, so 
they should not have dropped the charges, and he would have vindicated himself in court and countersued for defamation.
You mean along those lines ... .?

No. He never should have been charged in the first place. Had the police NOT been paid off, he would not have been. It was a fiasco from day one. And both Thailand, the cops, the army, and this heinous hotel richly deserve all of the egg on the face. 

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

This crazy story is starting to break internationally.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-09/us-man-wesley-barnes-avoid-jail-thailand-over-bad-resort-review/12748666

It's completely backfired on the hotel. A settlement consisting of grovelling apologies ? Who are the children making these terrible business decisions ? Heads should roll.

 

I seem to recall a couple of days ago you posted you expected him to receive a massive payout from the Hotel what happen

[marinediscoking]

36 minutes ago, condobrit001 said:

A cautionry tale to the many other loudmouth yanks in Thailand.

I believe his actions involved alcohol and then drunk posting. Yes he should have handled it better. The hotels actions were way over the top. I see many here defend this thai law though.

[Johnnyy]

Sometimes in life when you are not happy you just have to suck it up and move on. You can’t beat the system. I bet he wished he had done that now. 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Curt1591 said:

 ...  many of us would prefer to "apologize".

 

I would imagine that many, if not most, would simply pay the corkage or go elsewhere if it was an issue. Few would toss a hissy-fit, let alone go on such a rant.  

True. But it was likely a really stupid fee. 200 baht OK. Even 400 baht, maybe. It was likely 1,000 baht. Dumb and dumber. The hotel deserves all the bad press. Customer service is a really big deal, and being in the service industry, and forgetting that principal, can be costly. They are simply paying the price for being court jester fools.