American expat avoids jail for negative review - reaches settlement with Koh Chang hotel

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

No. He never should have been charged in the first place.

It was totally right to charge him for what he did. 
 

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Had the police NOT been paid off, he would not have been.

If that’s the case then somethings wrong with the system here but not with charging him. 
 

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It was a fiasco from day one. And both Thailand, the cops, the army, and this heinous hotel richly deserve all of the egg on the face. 

I hope the only one with egg on his face is that guy. 

[rkidlad]

15 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

That is total nonsense and you know it. 
it was NOT just 'a bad review'
It was a series of trolling comments and attacks towards the hotel to try and destroy their business. 
I would have done exactly the same thing if it were my business.
He got exactly what he deserved.

Som Nam Na!

Again, you're not reading what I'm writing.

 

I said, and I quote, "What could one take away from this?". Meaning people who read the story. 

 

I don't think anyone should be put in jail for writing a/several bad reviews online. Especially in a country where you can kill a cop while drunk and coked up and spend zero time in jail. But that's a separate argument for another day. 

 

In the West, we don't lock people up for bad reviews online. No matter how false, inaccurate or fictitious they are. Like it not - most people would find this notion abhorrent. And that's all that matters in terms of attracting tourists from the West. Many people will see the headlines and they won't want to come. They especially wouldn't wanna stay in this particular hotel. 

 

If the idea of all of this was "som nam na" or to save face for the hotel, they've completely s*** the bed on this one. They've lost face and they look like immature spoilt brats. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by rkidlad

[spidermike007]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

It was totally right to charge him for what he did. 
 

If that’s the case then somethings wrong with the system here but not with charging him. 
 

I hope the only one with egg on his face is that guy. 

Wrong. He is a tourist that will be quickly forgotten. This extremely tone deaf, incompetent and arrogant administration, will have egg on their faces for a long time, over this foolishness and very poorly timed pettiness. And the hotel will lose an enormous amount of business over this lack of goodwill. As far as the local franchisees go (the cops), their reputation could not be any worse, so no real loss there.

 

Horrible judgment all the way around. 

[Golden Triangle]

I was under the impression that the defamation laws here were interpreted like this: if an individual believes that his or hers business/reputation/product etc etc is damaged in any way by comments made by another (whether true or not) then they can sue for defamation. ??

 

Many many years ago I left a review of an attraction in Pattaya, it's directly opposite Bangkok Pattaya hospital and has a go kart track and McDonald's next door ???? 

 

In the review I suggested that people would be better off visiting at night when the fairy lights are on, not long after someone was sued for defamation for a similar reason.

 

I hastily contacted the review site and had the offending review deleted.

 

You have to be so careful here, speaking the truth can cost you dearly in Thailand.

 

The above is a true story.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Golden Triangle

[Mr Meeseeks]

29 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

This crazy story is starting to break internationally.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-09/us-man-wesley-barnes-avoid-jail-thailand-over-bad-resort-review/12748666

It's completely backfired on the hotel. A settlement consisting of grovelling apologies ? Who are the children making these terrible business decisions ? Heads should roll.

 

The most important thing from that article:

 

"Tripadvisor is opposed to the idea that a traveller can be prosecuted for expressing opinions," it said in an e-mail to Reuters.

 

The damage they do to their reputation in Thailand is continuously self inflicted.

[Kaopad999]

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

I don't think anyone should be put in jail for writing a/several bad reviews online. Especially in a country where you can kill a cop while drunk and coked up and spend zero time in jail. But that's a separate argument for another day. 

Again you keep saying they are just bad reviews. They were not just bad reviews. they were nasty comments attacking the hotel owner and accusing him of slavery. 

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

In the West, we don't lock people up for bad reviews online.

This is not the west though. And the American should have known that these are the laws in Thailand. Especially considering that he lives and works here. 
Again - thy were not just bad reviews . A 50 year old + man literally had a temper tantrum over corkage fees, and then decided to attack the hotel owner by accusing him of slavery. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Kaopad999

[aroiaroi]

21 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I seem to recall a couple of days ago you posted you expected him to receive a massive payout from the Hotel what happen

I underestimated the stupidity of the hotel.

Edited October 9, 2020 by aroiaroi

[lensta]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy. This will not go over well, internationally. Everyone will see right through this badly engineered PR stunt. When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

wonder what happened to the 100,000 bail money. 3 guesses anyone?

[rkidlad]

Just now, Kaopad999 said:

Again you keep saying they are just bad reviews. They were not just bad reviews. they were nasty comments attacking the hotel owner and accusing him of slavery. 

This is not the west though. And the American should have known that these are the laws in Thailand. Especially considering that he lives and works here. 

Well, let's help TAT own this law. They should be very proud of it seeing as it's the law, right? We need disclaimers on all websites where reviews can be left to explicitly state that anyone posting negative reviews could be jailed and/or imprisoned. Then people can decide for themselves if they wanna visit a country that locks people up so easily. 

 

Did he post nasty words? That's terrible. And online of all places. I'm beginning to think jail isn't strong enough!

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, lensta said:

wonder what happened to the 100,000 bail money. 3 guesses anyone?

It pays to be a local franchisee in Thailand. Creative cops are richly rewarded here. 

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The most important thing from that article:

 

"Tripadvisor is opposed to the idea that a traveller can be prosecuted for expressing opinions," it said in an e-mail to Reuters.

 

The damage they do to their reputation in Thailand is continuously self inflicted.

Trip does like to have its cake and eat it 

TripAdvisor claims that they are not responsible for user generated content – but claims ownership of all posts

2018

“We see this as a landmark ruling for the Internet,” said Brad Young, VP, associate general counsel at TripAdvisor. “Writing fake reviews has always been fraud, but this is the first time we’ve seen someone sent to jail as a result.

TripAdvisor supported the prosecution as a civil claimant, providing evidence from its in-house fraud investigations team.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tripadvisor-fake-reviews-paid-fraud-jail-legal-case-italy-promosalento-a8534006.html

 

[sucit]

He should go home, contact news stations, tell the story of how he has been extorted under duress to make self depricating statements, and then get back in touch with them and say "how you like me now?"

[HenryC]

Doesn't really matter if the bloke was in the wrong at this stage it is immaterial. Internationally it looks like he was threatened with jail and would say/do anything to get out of it. I mean who wouldn't!

 

More great publicity.

[Curt1591]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True. But it was likely a really stupid fee.

All the more reason to dine elsewhere.

The hotel's rack rate is ฿10,000+. Although one will find reduced rates, that "advertised" rate sets a tone. One can assume the hotel's services will be on the pricey side. 

We often get good deals on higher priced accommodations. But, we will rarely dine in. 

 

[Kaopad999]

3 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Well, let's help TAT own this law. They should be very proud of it seeing as it's the law, right? We need disclaimers on all websites where reviews can be left to explicitly state that anyone posting negative reviews could be jailed and/or imprisoned. Then people can decide for themselves if they wanna visit a country that locks people up so easily. 

 

Did he post nasty words? That's terrible. And online of all places. I'm beginning to think jail isn't strong enough!

Okay, well, i have left many  negative reviews on lots  places here over the past 10 years. Have i ever been locked up or charged? Nope! Guess why? because they were not personal attacks to try and destroy a business. 
I think you seem to be getting the two things confused. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Kaopad999

[Tchooptip]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy. This will not go over well, internationally. Everyone will see right through this badly engineered PR stunt. When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

"When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

Of course, you are right Mike! Let me tell you I appreciate most of your (intelligent and well-balanced) comments

But "The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy." ...do you think the following comment about this hotel was honest? With a sentence like don't support this modern day slavery? Without forgetting that after discussion with the manager at the time of the facts he did not have to pay any supplement for his own bottle of Gin.

[GeilGeilertzen]

This is exactly the riff raff that should never have entered Thailand it being a tourist country or not.  
Big mouth screamers always out to make thais feel like a lower class or criticizing Thai culture in many aspects. Sadly to say but very often from they are from the UK. 
Just leave, just go home is the the preferred action.  

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True. But it was likely a really stupid fee. 200 baht OK. Even 400 baht, maybe. It was likely 1,000 baht. Dumb and dumber. The hotel deserves all the bad press. Customer service is a really big deal, and being in the service industry, and forgetting that principal, can be costly. They are simply paying the price for being court jester fools. 

Here are some examples of where American companies  don't believe in they old saying the customer is always right

Top 5 Reasons Why ‘The Customer Is Always Right’ Is Wrong

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/top-5-reasons-customer-service_b_5145636

[from the home of CC]

just another self entitled drunkard...

[aroiaroi]

Apparently foriegn embassies have reported that this is not uncommon.
They will now probably have to give their citizens some travel warnings about Thailand, it's going to hurt tourism.

Given what was at stake, i'm suprised the TAT didn't flex their muscles and allowed the man-child hotel manager to even propose a settlement on those terms.
 

[spidermike007]

4 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

"When faced with jail, and who knows what else, many of us would prefer to "apologize". 

Of course, you are right Mike! Let me tell you I appreciate most of your (intelligent and well-balanced) comments

But "The regime has once again decided to protect the bigger guy, over the smaller guy." ...do you think the following comment about this hotel was honest? With a sentence like don't support this modern day slavery? Without forgetting that after discussion with the manager at the time of the facts he did not have to pay any supplement for his own bottle of Gin.

The review was extreme. And there was obviously alot of animus on both sides. And do we know how the resort really treats their employees? I have seen many Burmese workers here facing significant abuse, condescending behavior and ugliness from their superiors and employers. So, we do not really know. 

 

But, who really had the most to lose?

 

1. Thailand and the reputation of Thai tourism. 

 

2. This resort. Major egg on their face. 

 

3. In the long run, the tourist lost the least. He will be soon forgotten. Not the incident. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by spidermike007

[Mr Meeseeks]

16 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

This is not the west though. And the American should have known that these are the laws in Thailand. Especially considering that he lives and works here. 
Again - thy were not just bad reviews . A 50 year old + man literally had a temper tantrum over corkage fees, and then decided to attack the hotel owner by accusing him of slavery. 

Not defending the American man but tis the internet. You've got to grow a pair when you go online. Try not to be upset when someone criticises or insults you in this space.

 

The hotel appears to have had a typical Thai child-like reaction to something very minor indeed. Tripadvisor removed the comments, this should have really been the end of it.

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

They do need to be aware.

 

How about a disclaimer on all travel sites where it states you can be imprisoned for negative reviews of hotels in Thailand. Good idea? 

Sounds fair and reasonable to me. In that regard, maybe this incident has featured on the radar of some prospective visitors and they are more aware. We can only trust that tour operators, travel agencies, airlines, bloggers, vloggers and internet influencers also make sure it gets elevated in their disclaimers and the like. However, as @Crossy says, "I can EXPLAIN it to you, but I can't UNDERSTAND it for you."

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The hotel appears to have had a typical Thai child-like reaction to something very minor indeed. Tripadvisor removed the comments, this should have really been the end of it.

But the twerp re-posted it on Tripadvisor and also popped it on a few more travel sites that DID NOT remove his own "Thai child-like" hissy fit over corkage, his aberrant distaste for Czech nationals, a bizarre notion on slavery and (possibly) the room being outside his budget in the first place.

[Sundown]

It reminds me of the poor guy who stole a poster in North Korea and was forced to apologize publicly in tears. Otto Warmbier, the poor guy never made it home though. Good spot for the tourism and for the resort I mean, who doesn't want to go there now????? 

[Megasin1]

Regardless of what happened it has become reminiscant of a downed pilot behind enemy lines who is forced in front of a camera to denounce everything.  Nobody in their right mind could believe that this has been dealt with fairly and evenly. The hotel handled the whole thing poorly from the start. When someone denounces you on a review the stock approach is " sorry you didn't enjoy your stay, however corkage is a standard charge in most hotels, next time you come back etc..." kill it quickly not just string up your customers in front of the world. Hotels, school owners, government officials, coconut tree climbing monkey owners, most Thais need to have a good look in the mirror and get real and in the right century.

[Siamjim]

trying to pull the cancel culture here after he couldn't accept the house rules

[Flying Saucage]

28 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

i'm suprised the TAT didn't flex their muscles

I think the TAT has not much muscles. The whole country is led by "influential families", similar to a Mafia organisation. Just remember how another influential family from another island, Koh Tao, flexed their muscles to deviate the guild for this double murder away from the family and towards the two Burmese guys. The officials in this country, including the TAT, have to do as the influential families and the generals tell them.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[Tchooptip]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

The review was extreme. And there was obviously alot of animus on both sides. But, who had the most to lose? 

 

1. Thailand and the reputation of Thai tourism. 

 

2. This resort. Major egg on their face. 

 

3. In the long run, the tourist lost the least. He will be soon forgotten. Not the incident. 

Yes sure! But also most people reading about this story had not seen the review itself I have seen it on Yahoo US,  a tourist could be jailed for a hotel review, nothing more!

As for the American man, being not a tourist but working in Thailand, maybe now he will have to be careful not sure that everyone will forget him including immigration ? I don't wish him because with my principles I don't wish harm to anyone so all the better if I'm wrong.

[kingstonkid]

5 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

If these medias would report something about this, it'll only impact the hotel negatively. 

With the U.S. in the end run of the election how much do you think they will care.  As usual this will get a back page IF ANYTHING.

The damage has already been done and the fact that he has had to do all this is again nproof that saying anything negative about a hotrel is dangerous if you are in Thailand