ED visa to Non-B for Work Permit

[PremiumLane]

I know usually to go from and ED visa to a Non-B to then obtain the work permit you have to leave the country, but has this changed due to Covid? 

 

I heard some talk about immigration allowing some visas to be changed in country now.

[ubonjoe]

You cannot change non immigrant visa categories while in the country. If on a visa exempt or tourist visa entry it is possible to apply for a non immigrant visa at immigration.

If your employer can a apply for a work permit for you it would be possible to apply for a extension of stay based upon working.

[PremiumLane]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot change non immigrant visa categories while in the country. If on a visa exempt or tourist visa entry it is possible to apply for a non immigrant visa at immigration.

If your employer can a apply for a work permit for you it would be possible to apply for a extension of stay based upon working.

I am currently on an ED visa, about to get another 6 months extension. 

[ubonjoe]

If on a extension for attending school you could change the reason for your extension to working if you could get a work permit application approval letter. 

[PremiumLane]

35 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If on a extension for attending school you could change the reason for your extension to working if you could get a work permit application approval letter. 

OK great, thanks for the info. 

[Adam86]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

I am currently on an ED visa, about to get another 6 months extension. 

I'm in the same situation. Can I ask how did you manage to get a 6 months extension to your ED visa? My language school said it is not possible. That now immigration is only allowing government run language schools to get new ED visa and for that I'm to late to apply anyway.

 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot change non immigrant visa categories while in the country. If on a visa exempt or tourist visa entry it is possible to apply for a non immigrant visa at immigration.

If your employer can a apply for a work permit for you it would be possible to apply for a extension of stay based upon working.

Joe, thank you for replying to my other thread. The University who offered me the job said I need to speak to immigration which I did yesterday. Immigration told me it was not possible to change an ED visa to a Non B as the visa type was not in the same category. Really stuck now and keep being passed between people ????

[PremiumLane]

6 minutes ago, Adam86 said:

I'm in the same situation. Can I ask how did you manage to get a 6 months extension to your ED visa? My language school said it is not possible. That now immigration is only allowing government run language schools to get new ED visa and for that I'm to late to apply anyway.

I am studying full time at a university, so we get longer periods for our ED visas. 

[PremiumLane]

9 minutes ago, Adam86 said:

Joe, thank you for replying to my other thread. The University who offered me the job said I need to speak to immigration which I did yesterday. Immigration told me it was not possible to change an ED visa to a Non B as the visa type was not in the same category. Really stuck now and keep being passed between people ????

and hope you get it sorted out OK

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Adam86 said:

The University who offered me the job said I need to speak to immigration which I did yesterday. Immigration told me it was not possible to change an ED visa to a Non B as the visa type was not in the same category.

They are both non immigrant visas and that is all that is needed to apply for a extension of stay. The only difference is the reason is they were issued for.

All of the clauses in the immigration order that require a non immigrant visa to apply only state that. 

[darrendsd]

Ubonjoe

 

My ED Visa finished in May - I am currently on the amnesty - do you think it will be possible to change to a retirement extension (will be 50 in a few months time)

 

Thanks

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

My ED Visa finished in May - I am currently on the amnesty - do you think it will be possible to change to a retirement extension (will be 50 in a few months time)

 

It should be possible.

Not sure what will be done in a few months though.

[Adam86]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They are both non immigrant visas and that is all that is needed to apply for a extension of stay. The only difference is the reason is they were issued for.

All of the clauses in the immigration order that require a non immigrant visa to apply only state that. 

 

Thanks for your input Joe. I told this to immigration today in Chiang Mai and they just turned me away again sadly. Is there anyone else I can speak to apply for an extension of stay apart from the immigration as they clearly are not interested in helping. Perhaps a number to call or email? Surely there is a helpline as clearly there are multiple people in the same situation as me. I already called the British embassy in BKK but they were absolutely useless.

 

Is there anywhere I can see the clauses in the immigration order online you talk about? I found this article.

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/work-permit-rules.php?fbclid=IwAR0XOdkfamt7H1Smty9k6dDy9vc1cVMzHuF8mapZor4RNkW85SBq_Q49hS8 Is this what your referring to Joe?

 

I'm not sure where to go forward from here as several people have told me its possible to change non-ED to non-B but for me its seeming like mission impossible.

 

I've started to contact agencies in the meantime. Fingers crossed, trying to remain positive I can figure this out.

 

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, Adam86 said:

Is there anywhere I can see the clauses in the immigration order online you talk about? I found this article.

You can download the immigration order at numbers 12 and 13 in english and Thai in this pinned topic.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

37 minutes ago, Adam86 said:

I found this article.

That is not a official website. This from the bottom of that page. "This is NOT the official website of the Thai Embassy"

[ThLT]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If on a extension for attending school you could change the reason for your extension to working if you could get a work permit application approval letter. 

If a potential teacher on an ED visa finds a school, and gets a work permit application approval letter, what would be the chances that immigration will accept it?

Does immigration less often refuse the work permit application letter of ED visa holders in Chiang Mai, for example?

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by ThLT

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, ThLT said:

If a potential teacher on an ED visa finds a school, and gets a work permit application approval letter, what would be the chances that immigration will accept it?

If you are able to get the work permit application approval letter and all the other supporting documents required for a extension based upon teaching their would be no valid reason for them deny it.

 

9 hours ago, ThLT said:

Does immigration less often refuse the work permit application letter of ED visa holders in Chiang Mai, for example?

I don't know.

[ThLT]

On 10/17/2020 at 8:07 AM, ubonjoe said:

If you are able to get the work permit application approval letter and all the other supporting documents required for a extension based upon teaching their would be no valid reason for them deny it.

Ah, okay. I'm just worried of going through the whole process of finding a school, preparing all my documents, have the school prepare the required documents, etc. In my thread, you said the following:

 

On 8/26/2020 at 7:47 PM, ubonjoe said:

They have policy of not normally accepting work permit applications from those on non-ed visa entries.

(Thread)

 

If there is a relatively high risk (or even medium risk) that my work permit application is refused, I don't know if it's a good idea to take all the time (and the school's time) to go through with it.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

If there is a relatively high risk (or even medium risk) that my work permit application is refused, I don't know if it's a good idea to take all the time (and the school's time) to go through with it.

I have not seen any recent reports of a application not being accepted when on a non-ed visa. You would think that they would be more flexible and accept them now that schools are short on teachers.

 

[ThLT]

On 10/19/2020 at 10:07 AM, ubonjoe said:

I have not seen any recent reports of a application not being accepted when on a non-ed visa. You would think that they would be more flexible and accept them now that schools are short on teachers.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks, ubonjoe.

[someuser023954]

Has anyone done this lately, changed from ED visa to Non-Imm B (or extension of stay based on working) and received a work permit without leaving Thailand?

 

We have a teacher at my school who has been working on an ED visa, and subsequently an "extension of stay based on education" for almost a year.  She just gets paid in cash since she can't get a work permit.  Our school won't apply for her work permit while she is on the ED extension.  She is set to graduate soon and I assume her ED extension will end.  Of course, she does not want to leave Thailand and if she did she would not have the money to pay for return, and there aren't many available foreign teachers left here.   How can she switch from ED to an "extension for working" and then get a work permit without leaving Thailand? 

[jackdd]

40 minutes ago, someuser023954 said:

Has anyone done this lately, changed from ED visa to Non-Imm B (or extension of stay based on working) and received a work permit without leaving Thailand?

 

We have a teacher at my school who has been working on an ED visa, and subsequently an "extension of stay based on education" for almost a year.  She just gets paid in cash since she can't get a work permit.  Our school won't apply for her work permit while she is on the ED extension.  She is set to graduate soon and I assume her ED extension will end.  Of course, she does not want to leave Thailand and if she did she would not have the money to pay for return, and there aren't many available foreign teachers left here.   How can she switch from ED to an "extension for working" and then get a work permit without leaving Thailand? 

She or the school has to apply for a work permit for her.

[someuser023954]

48 minutes ago, jackdd said:

She or the school has to apply for a work permit for her.

Thanks for replying.  She cannot apply herself.  The school she is working at, my school, will not apply for the work permit while she has an ED extension, our school where we are working only will apply for a WP after you have a Non-B.  The university where she is getting her masters will not apply for a WP for her because she doesn't work there, so they have no reason to do this.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, someuser023954 said:

The school she is working at, my school, will not apply for the work permit while she has an ED extension, our school where we are working only will apply for a WP after you have a Non-B.

Then she should try to find a job at a school where the people care about her.

[loser4life]

I know this dead horse has been beaten.  There are a few other threads about this and I noted the most recent reply date:

 

ED to NonB

• ED to NonB, Aug 2020 - https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1179571-anyone-changed-ed-visa-to-b-visa-with-borders-closed/
• ED to NonB, Sept 2020 - https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1169847-change-non-ed-to-non-b-work-permit/
• ED to NonB, Oct 2020 - https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1187564-help-is-it-possible-to-change-a-non-ed-visa-into-a-non-b-visa-been-offered-a-job-teaching-english-at-uni/

NonB to ED

• NonB to ED, Dec 2020 - https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1198390-changing-the-non-b-employment-visa-to-ed-visa/
• NonB to ED, March 2021 - https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1209131-non-b-to-ed-visa-without-leaving-thailand/

I decided to resurrect this thread because it appears to have the most recent reply (from December 2020) regarding the ED-to-NonB swap.  So . . . has anyone had any luck, without leaving Thailand, changing from: ED Visa -> extension of stay based on education stamp -> Non-B Visa -> extension of stay based on working stamp?  I know someone in this situation now.  The ED Visa extension stamp expires soon as the person is graduating, and the person has a teaching job.  However, the school they are teaching at does not want to apply for a work permit while the person is on the ED visa extension stamp.  Anyone have success stories with this?  If the teacher leaves the country, then the teacher will not be back, and Thailand is already hurting for foreign teachers now.  So many ads on Ajarn.com and the like for teachers.

Edited March 25, 2021 by loser4life

[jackdd]

24 minutes ago, loser4life said:

However, the school they are teaching at does not want to apply for a work permit while the person is on the ED visa extension stamp.  Anyone have success stories with this?

Success in what regard? Finding a job at a school that is willing to get a work permit for their teachers? Will your friend then apply for a job at that school?

[loser4life]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Success in what regard? Finding a job at a school that is willing to get a work permit for their teachers? Will your friend then apply for a job at that school?

 

I meant success in transferring an ED visa to a Non-B visa.  Or, I think the proper term is transferring an extension of stay stamp based on education to an extension of stay for working stamp without leaving Thailand. 

 

I'm going to make my own abbreviations here, maybe other's will start using them:

• extension of stay stamp based on education (ESBOE)
• extension of stay stamp based on  working (ESBOW)

Darn!  Both acronyms are pronounced the same!

 

If a school will not apply for a work permit (WP) while the teacher is on an ESBOE, should the teacher just apply at another school that will? Is it best for a teacher just to ask the school first if they are willing to do this, or is there some online resource listings schools that will apply for a WP if the teacher is on an ESBOE?

 

[jackdd]

31 minutes ago, loser4life said:

I meant success in transferring an ED visa to a Non-B visa.  Or, I think the proper term is transferring an extension of stay stamp based on education to an extension of stay for working stamp without leaving Thailand. 

Correct, you are not transferring from one visa to another.

I'm not 100% certain because I never worked in Thailand, but afaik it should be like this, if somebody knows more than me please correct me:

- The school applies for a work permit for their new teacher (the teacher already being in Thailand, having entered with a non-immigrant visa)

- When this is processed the department of employment will issue a work permit approval letter

- The teacher takes this approval letter, and whatever else is required, to immigration and applies for an extension based on working

- The teacher/school shows the department of employment that he is now on an extension based on working and they will hand out the work permit

 

31 minutes ago, loser4life said:

If a school will not apply for a work permit (WP) while the teacher is on an ESBOE, should the teacher just apply at another school that will? Is it best for a teacher just to ask the school first if they are willing to do this, or is there some online resource listings schools that will apply for a WP if the teacher is on an ESBOE?

If I were in this situation I would proceed like this:

- Contact the department of employment in my province, and confirm with them that they will allow schools to apply for a work permit in this situation. In my opinion there is no rule prohibiting it, but as we probably all know, government offices here in Thailand like to make up their own rules. If they confirm that it's possible we can be certain that they are not the problem, but it are the schools who are making problems.

- Look for schools with job offerings, and ask them if they will apply for a work permit if I were to start teaching there. If they confirm it, apply for a job with them. If you sign a contract with them insist on writing in the contract that you will only give classes if they got the work permit for you.

- When having some free time I would let a Thai person (to protect yourself) report all the schools who say they won't get a work permit for you to immigration and department of employment because they employ people illegally.

Edited March 25, 2021 by jackdd

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The school applies for a work permit for their new teacher (the teacher already being in Thailand, having entered with a non-immigrant visa)

The is where the problem occurs.

The Department of Employment of the labor has a policy of not accepting work permit applications when a person entered the country on a non-ed visa and then got extensions of stay for attending school.

Not correct in my opinion but it has happened before.

[loser4life]

Good post @jackdd and @ubonjoe.  It seems in this case it is there are two problems: 1) the school that the teacher is working at  won't apply for the work permit approval letter and 2) if the school did apply for a WP, the Department of Labor (DOL) official that gets the paper work may reject it because the teacher entered Thailand on an ED and then got an ESBOE.   I have heard of some success stories with the DOL in this matter, but those may be urban legends. 

 

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The is where the problem occurs.

The Department of Employment of the labor has a policy of not accepting work permit applications when a person entered the country on a non-ed visa and then got extensions of stay for attending school.

Not correct in my opinion but it has happened before.

 

Does anyone have an official link to this policy?

 

I would hate to tell my friend to look for a job at another school only for the WP application to get rejected by the DOL again.   If my friend leaves the country they will not be back any time soon and the school is down one teacher.  There has to be some solution!  Come on Thailand!

 

Side note:  Hey, everyone, start using my ESBOE and ESBOW acronyms.  Lets used the proper terms instead of referring to these stamps as visas.  Maybe I'll get famous.  LOL.

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, loser4life said:

I would hate to tell my friend to look for a job at another school only for the WP application to get rejected by the DOL again. 

Which is why I recommend to contact the DOL first, to rule this out.

The ministry of labor also has a callcenter number, maybe they can help, or there is also the general government helpline 1111.

Edited March 25, 2021 by jackdd

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, loser4life said:

Does anyone have an official link to this policy?

I don't think it is available as a official policy.