Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[david555]

5 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

I hope our batting opponents understand, there's no animosity on my part, and I'm sure the same goes for others, simply a frustration that people will not gracefully accept the democratic decision of the nation and pull together to get the best for all concerned.

 

And, of course, quit with the negative vibes, and have some faith.... ????

Excuse me , as E.U. member i accept your resignation or divorce or whatever you like to name it ...

But a leaver  sees for him a better future in his leaving future  , so why oh why  blaming the organization he left that his wishes are not considered....he left anyway

 

 

[david555]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

The EU can do exactly as they wish, so why don't they.... Why are they still around the negotiating table? After all, it's hardly a new issue that popped up overnight, and BJ has made it abundantly clear the bill won't be dropped.

In the beginning they hoped and thought U.K. could change mind , now already a long time not anymore , so the harder stance to defend their 27 country's interests ... & E.U ideology !

 

They gave you all the time of the  world, .... ( too much time i personally find  , but that's only my opinion )

[david555]

7 minutes ago, Tofer said:

The EU can do exactly as they wish, so why don't they.... Why are they still around the negotiating table? After all, it's hardly a new issue that popped up overnight, and BJ has made it abundantly clear the bill won't be dropped.

And so the deal shall never survive a E.U vote by the members...  , even when one would be reached and Boris bill not dropped ..! They have the last word in this as made clear before 

[david555]

Just to remember  some might have forgot , hear the message :

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by david555

[473geo]

53 minutes ago, david555 said:

But it can make the E.U. decide not to sign a new one , who could go same way after again to be broken , anyway legally they shows already  serious intentions to break it , as they voted it in H.O.C. already , and it is only because your lordships  rejected it , that it is now in the " twilight zone " ....

 

BTW    No ECJ rejection needed  to refuse  to vote any deal ....????  only 1 veto is enough , and more are prepared be assured, as thing's stand now .

 

 

Not too difficult to understand from an EU member state point of view, a trade deal is cut with the exited UK, followed by the member state expected to increase contribution, or perhaps take a cut in benefits, lets be clear who is facing this conundrum and a difficult solution it is not the UK

[david555]

7 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Not too difficult to understand from an EU member state point of view, a trade deal is cut with the exited UK, followed by the member state expected to increase contribution, or perhaps take a cut in benefits, lets be clear who is facing this conundrum and a difficult solution it is not the UK

Correct words ....which exactly point out that an international treaty signed by a PM. And afterwarts becomes intended  unilateral broken by the same PM.   

And on top even admitted in HOC ....by another member of the goverment .

 

Creating opostion to it from former U.K. Pm's...and rejected by the Lords .... all this is Nothing ...?

As even an USA president elect  has  same objections to it .

 

 

[473geo]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Correct words ....which exactly point out that an international treaty signed by a PM. And afterwarts becomes intended  unilateral broken by the same PM.   

And on top even admitted in HOC ....by another member of the goverment .

 

Creating opostion to it from former U.K. Pm's...and rejected by the Lords .... all this is Nothing ...?

As even an USA president elect  has  same objections to it .

 

 

So Boris does step inside the law, does it resolve the conundrum or exacerbate it?

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

Just heard a new expression, which I think is quite apt - remainiacs...

It is (was?) the name of a podcast. Personally, I wouldn't go looking for it. Even as a remainer, I found some of the comments a bit much.

[david555]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

So Boris does step inside the law, does it resolve the conundrum or exacerbate it?

Whatever Boris do ... Boris is toast .... and by E.U. fact is stated that they do not vote in favor for a deal when that Boris bill is not dropped ... simple fact !

 

[473geo]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

Whatever Boris do ... Boris is toast .... and by E.U. fact is stated that they do not vote in favor for a deal when that Boris bill is not dropped ... simple fact !

 

But can they negotiate for a deal if it is? Enough of what they won't do!! How about a bit of what they can do, or as has been stated before actually hamstrung by their own process that gives individual states opportunity to stuff up the rest for self interest?

[david555]

17 minutes ago, 473geo said:

But can they negotiate for a deal if it is? Enough of what they won't do!! How about a bit of what they can do, or as has been stated before actually hamstrung by their own process that gives individual states opportunity to stuff up the rest for self interest?

It was stated earlier than now , more  45 days when problem arise ,  that they would never agree the Good friday agreements   would be broken , and this is not  created from E.U. side , this is Boris his mess  , so not for E.U. to clean it up or even to accept some guild feelings which it seems you try to put up on E.U. 

 

Mean time E.U. kept negotiating as if by miracle bill would be dropped , no other time would be lost , never forget 27 country's has to agree first , with in each country some opposition could arise for whatever reason ...., that is why E.U. warned before time is limited ....

They have to agree  UNANIMOUS !.... enough said ? ????

 

U.K. created mess 

Edited November 15, 2020 by david555

[473geo]

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

It was stated earlier than now , more  45 days when problem arise ,  that they would never agree the Good friday agreements   would be broken , and this is not  created from E.U. side , this is Boris his mess  , so not for E.U. to clean it up or even to accept some guild feelings which it seems you try to put up on E.U. 

 

Mean time E.U. kept negotiating as if by miracle bill would be dropped , no other time would be lost , never forget 27 country's has to agree first , with in each country some opposition could arise for whatever reason ...., that is why E.U. warned before time is limited ....

 

U.K. created mess 

So the bill is dropped, cut the flannel, are the EU capable of making a trade deal or will the bill prove to be a convenient excuse, and once removed, another excuse will take it's place because the EU actually cannot control its members on a trade deal decision?

[david555]

43 minutes ago, 473geo said:

So the bill is dropped, cut the flannel, are the EU capable of making a trade deal or will the bill prove to be a convenient excuse, and once removed, another excuse will take it's place because the EU actually cannot control its members on a trade deal decision?

I can not give you the  correct answer on that as negotiations are on a package ...(on both sides ...)

But i can give you an extract of first 3  parts of Sky News Sophy Ridge  Sunday afternoon talk/ interview with  Ireland's foreign minister Simon Coveney,  and you can see the Boris bill is very important , same as the plain level field ..... fish (?) 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/five-things-we-learnt-from-this-weeks-sophy-ridge-on-sunday-12133241

Sunday 15 November 2020 15:45, UK

Brexit's back, all right.

 

The clock is ticking for the government to reach a deal, so Sophy Ridge has spoken to Environment Secretary George Eustice and Ireland's foreign minister Simon Coveney about what could happen

Ireland's foreign minister threw down the gauntlet to the UK on the show by saying that no matter how limited and specific the plans, if the UK got prepared to break international law it would result in no deal.

Simon Coveney said even if a trade deal were agreed it "won't be ratified by the EU" as "there is no way the EU will agree to ratify a new agreement if the British government is breaking the existing agreement which is not even 12 months old".

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, david555 said:

Just to remember  some might have forgot , hear the message :

 

 

 

Irrelevant, if we walk away without a deal...

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, david555 said:

But a leaver  sees for him a better future in his leaving future  , so why oh why  blaming the organization he left that his wishes are not considered....he left anyway

 

They are not wishes, but sovereign rights by international standards, that the EU refuse to respect.

[david555]

8 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Irrelevant, if we walk away without a deal...

True ,irrelevant as no deal then ,  even for E.U. as it  only leave U.K. with again their old  Irish problem .....and a not happy N.I. and .... a not happy Democrat USA president and goverment 

Edited November 16, 2020 by david555

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, david555 said:

In the beginning they hoped and thought U.K. could change mind

 

12 hours ago, david555 said:

They gave you all the time of the  world, .... ( too much time i personally find  , but that's only my opinion )

 

Finally, something we can agree on. Albeit somewhat tangential to my original comments, but I've come to expect that....

[Tofer]

11 hours ago, david555 said:

Whatever Boris do ... Boris is toast .... and by E.U. fact is stated that they do not vote in favor for a deal when that Boris bill is not dropped ... simple fact !

 

Then walk away, as I said before.

 

Why are the EU still negotiating if it's "a simple fact" that a deal will not be ratified.

[david555]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

Then walk away, as I said before.

 

Why are the EU still negotiating if it's "a simple fact" that a deal will not be ratified.

I think they try to keep it legally and diplomatic ... with very little hope to find a deal lately ???? just showing to comply 

[JonnyF]

10 hours ago, david555 said:

Ireland's foreign minister threw down the gauntlet to the UK on the show by saying that no matter how limited and specific the plans, if the UK got prepared to break international law it would result in no deal.

Simon Coveney said even if a trade deal were agreed it "won't be ratified by the EU" as "there is no way the EU will agree to ratify a new agreement if the British government is breaking the existing agreement which is not even 12 months old".

 

They won't offer us anything remotely acceptable anyway so this threat is meaningless. The EU needs to realize that in order to make a threat of withdrawing an offer, the item being offered must be of some worth. 

 

Threating to remove the offer of level playing field and ECJ jurisdiction while continuing to fish our waters is not a credible threat. It's laughable in fact. It's like offering someone a stale bun full of rancid, rotten meat and then threatening to take it away if they don't do what you want.

[david555]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

They won't offer us anything remotely acceptable anyway so this threat is meaningless. The EU needs to realize that in order to make a threat of withdrawing an offer, the item being offered must be of some worth. 

 

Threating to remove the offer of level playing field and ECJ jurisdiction while continuing to fish our waters is not a credible threat. It's laughable in fact. It's like offering someone a stale bun full of rancid, rotten meat and then threatening to take it away if they don't do what you want.

Don't worry ... i think your waters are safe ,  but that shall be ALL ...i think ....

 

[david555]

  (Even if a miracle should happen , this is the timing for a deal to become passing the 31 December  date ...)

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/brexit-trade-deal-tariffs-summit-deadline-b1723420.html

 

The EU heads of government summit on Thursday marks yet another deadline by which the new free trade agreement will have to be ready for its first stage approval by the various presidents, prime ministers and chancellors of the 27 member states.  

 

It will then take some weeks to be translated and ratified by the many national and regional assemblies of the 27, plus the European parliament and, of course, the House of Commons.

 

Any objections will then have to smoothed out, again taking time.

All, including consequent domestic laws and regulations, will need to be operational by 1 January.

It is a tall order.

 

[Mavideol]

16 hours ago, Tofer said:

I wish you would make your mind up. Talk about Boris U-turning - hypocrite.

 

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/11/13/dominic-cummings-departure-means-boris-johnson-ready-to-do-a-br/

Dominic Cummings departure means Boris Johnson 'ready to do a Brexit U-turn'

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18801409.nicola-sturgeon-demands-u-turn-boris-johnsons-no-deal-brexit-threat/

Nicola Sturgeon demands U-turn on Boris Johnson's No-Deal Brexit threat

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Dominic Cummings departure means Boris Johnson 'ready to do a Brexit U-turn'

 

Do you really believe everything you read in a newspaper or on-line news reports....

 

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Nicola Sturgeon demands U-turn on Boris Johnson's No-Deal Brexit threat

 

Nice one, that really made my day with a good laugh.

[3NUMBAS]

bojo has told em no more bullying or hes going to walk

[Bruntoid]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

bojo has told em no more bullying or hes going to walk

Well waddle anyway ...

[david555]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

bojo has told em no more bullying or hes going to walk

Again ......?..????????????

 

 

[Tofer]

The EU negotiators had better pull their fingers out, or at the current rate of obstinacy there'll be no allocations left for you to share in our waters, since UK have signed deals on fishing with both Norway and Iceland now.

 

Still, I suppose Macron would prefer to continue his tantrums, than accept reality and have meaningful discussions on the subject. I was always taught the "I want doesn't get" principle as a child....

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

<snip>

The EU negotiators had better pull their fingers out, or at the current rate of obstinacy there'll be no allocations left for you to share in our waters, since UK have signed deals on fishing with both Norway and Iceland now.

 Not just Iceland and Norway but also Greenland and the Faroe Islands.

 

But tell us, if Boris is taking back the fishing rights the British government allowed British fishing fleet owners to sell to fleet owners from other EU coastal states and given those rights to fleets from Iceland, Norway, Greenland and the Faroe Islands; how will that help the UK fishing industry?

[david555]

34 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Not just Iceland and Norway but also Greenland and the Faroe Islands.

 

But tell us, if Boris is taking back the fishing rights the British government allowed British fishing fleet owners to sell to fleet owners from other EU coastal states and given those rights to fleets from Iceland, Norway, Greenland and the Faroe Islands; how will that help the UK fishing industry?

Oh come on   !..once they start breaking treaty's they can go on ..., they find probably normal doing..........it is the new British honesty ....????????????????

 

so now Spain can go review the Gibraltar treaty .....same same ....????