Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Surelynot]

27 minutes ago, Tofer said:

More hot air and unsubstantiated claims. He did, after all, orchestrate Brexit...

Rubbish.....he happens to have been the winner in two, one horse races....amazing......and that qualifies him to run the country (without being elected by anyone)....the man is a complete charlatan and is now receiving his just desserts

[luckyluke]

13 minutes ago, Tofer said:

That's obvious!

 

So, I take it from that, you accept my original assertions that the UK have not capitulated or given up any red lines, but you couldn't answer the question in a straight forward manner. Does it hurt to accept the truth?

 

In a negotiation no one ever capitulate.

 

Some may pretend  that one party concede  over a particular situation,

that may be the case, but one has to know what this party get in lieu of what they give in.

 

 

Often the " lieu of " is of greater substantial importance.

 

There are no evident winners and losers in a negotiation.

 

And that is the truth.

[Surelynot]

Just now, luckyluke said:

 

In a negotiation no one ever capitulate.

 

Some may pretend  that one party concede  over a particular situation,

that may be the case, but one has to know what this party get in lieu of what they give in.

 

 

Often the " lieu of " is of greater substantial importance.

 

There are no evident winners and losers in a negotiation.

 

And that is the truth.

The one exception being the UK when it comes to Brexit...the UK is going to get shafted whatever the outcome of the negotiations.

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Farage is not the government.

 

 

Off you go then, let's see how you fare, without all the extra cash you get from England.

 

The Scots aint going anywhere, it is all hot air from the usual suspects. They are very keen to show polls when they are going their own way but when the polls show that their cause is waining, it is total silence. The latest polls are showing a drop down to 51% 'yes' and 49% 'no' and that is with a weighted question of "should Scotland become independant" instead of 'should Scotland remain in the UK. Many of those asked will be afraid to answer truthfully or they may get branded as a traitor, so even though the Scots have already had a indepence referendum, they said an emphatic 'no'.

[luckyluke]

19 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Off you go then, let's see how you fare, without all the extra cash you get from England.

After 4 days of negotiation, the E.U. members came agree for the new E.U. budget, thus without the considerable financial input of the U.K..

 

It remains of course to be seen what this will have as concrete inpakt on the daily life of the man in the street in Europe.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

After 4 days of negotiation, the E.U. members came agree for the new E.U. budget, thus without the considerable financial input of the U.K..

 

It remains of course to be seen what this will have as concrete inpakt on the daily life of the man in the street in Europe.

Didn't Poland and Hungary say that they would veto the EU budget, has that now been sorted?

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Didn't Poland and Hungary say that they would veto the EU budget, has that now been sorted?

 

Indeed, since a couple of days Poland & Hungary threatened to veto the new E.U. budget.

 

Quite confident they, and the rest of the E.U.,  will come to an agreement.

 

And for sure one will continue to read, now and then,  these kind of brief "revolt".

 

After all, doing constantly well for 27 members, is something hard to achieve permanently.

 

 

 

[david555]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

Same old, same old - no substance or substantiation in your reply, as expected.

Equal to yours for ever complaining !....meaning in fact from you a cry why E.U. does not give your wishes ....as also same old old ????

 

[david555]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

How on Earth is Cummings resigning a Boris U-turn - please explain?

As Boris follwed the wishes of his GF. And asked  Cummings to resign ...????????????

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Ian Blackford is not the government either.

He's an elected representative of the SNP, who govern in the Scottish parliament, or were you not aware of that. 

 

Quite a bit different to Farage, who holds no elected position whatsoever.

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

He's an elected representative of the SNP, who govern in the Scottish parliament, or were you not aware of that.

 

Quite a bit different to Farage, who holds no elected position whatsoever.

 

yes, quite different from Farage,

not least when you look at getting things done , , , , ,

 

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Rubbish.....he happens to have been the winner in two, one horse races....amazing......and that qualifies him to run the country (without being elected by anyone)....the man is a complete charlatan and is now receiving his just desserts

What "one horse races are you referring to?

 

He doesn't run the country, he is an advisor to the PM. Very loose with your facts aren't you!

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

In a negotiation no one ever capitulate.

 

Some may pretend  that one party concede  over a particular situation,

that may be the case, but one has to know what this party get in lieu of what they give in.

 

 

Often the " lieu of " is of greater substantial importance.

 

There are no evident winners and losers in a negotiation.

 

And that is the truth.

You're still not prepared to state what the UK are supposed to have given in to.

 

I think you'll find that the EU are, in fact, capitulating on their punishment stance and red lines.

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

The one exception being the UK when it comes to Brexit...the UK is going to get shafted whatever the outcome of the negotiations.

Crystal ball gazing again.

 

It must be really depressing to live with all that negativity... have some faith.

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

After 4 days of negotiation, the E.U. members came agree for the new E.U. budget, thus without the considerable financial input of the U.K..

Where did that come from. We were discussing the plight of Scotland in a state of independence.

 

Wake up sunshine, it's past lunchtime already.

 

And "4 days negotiation is a tad disingenuous. They've been arguing for many months over their budget contributions. Or were you asleep through that period as well...

Edited November 15, 2020 by Tofer

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Quite confident they, and the rest of the E.U.,  will come to an agreement.

So, the budget has not been agreed in your stated 4 days. Or is that what your crystal balls tell you....

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Equal to yours for ever complaining !....meaning in fact from you a cry why E.U. does not give your wishes ....as also same old old ????

 

No complaining on that score. I'm more than confident we'll prosper outside of the EU.

 

I am however, complaining about the EU constantly trying to protract the transition and drag us back into your little club, along with their double dealing behind our governments back. 

[transam]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

As Boris follwed the wishes of his GF. And asked  Cummings to resign ...????????????

Did you get that snippet from your countries very own Secret Service 007....?  ????

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

He's an elected representative of the SNP, who govern in the Scottish parliament, or were you not aware of that. 

 

Quite a bit different to Farage, who holds no elected position whatsoever.

Yes he is an elected MP in Westminster where he is not part of the government.

 

Indeed it is different from Farage given he stood for parliament about 7 times (as I recall) and failed on any occasion to get elected.

But you still think he is just super dont you?

[Rookiescot]

44 minutes ago, transam said:

Did you get that snippet from your countries very own Secret Service 007....?  ????

Probably no need to ask them

The very fact Johnsons girlfriend is still there and Cummings and King are out on their erse probably says enough.

[david555]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

No complaining on that score. I'm more than confident we'll prosper outside of the EU.

 

I am however, complaining about the EU constantly trying to protract the transition and drag us back into your little club, along with their double dealing behind our governments back. 

I am very curious why... if U.K. can prosper out of E.U.  ( could be.... i agree ! ...) then why  oh why you still keep sitting on that negotiation table ????as prosperity is winking outside to you ..... that is for me a mystery....( if that prosperity expectation  is true of course )

 

Something is not logic in your claim  ????

[david555]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Did you get that snippet from your countries very own Secret Service 007....?  ????

just read and hear your own U.K. media ...... laughing about Boris GF Carrie took over # 10 .... however it could be an improvement ....????

 

BTW  here from your own bible paper https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/12/carries-crew-sees-brexit-boys-boy/

Edited November 15, 2020 by david555

[473geo]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

just read and hear your own U.K. media ...... laughing about Boris GF Carrie took over # 10 .... however it could be an improvement ....????

 

BTW  here from your own bible paper https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/12/carries-crew-sees-brexit-boys-boy/

Well done Boris great tactical move, now you have opened the door for a possible softer Brexit with nobody losing face.  Even the EU may see sense ????

[473geo]

25 minutes ago, david555 said:

I am very curious why... if U.K. can prosper out of E.U.  ( could be.... i agree ! ...) then why  oh why you still keep sitting on that negotiation table ????as prosperity is winking outside to you ..... that is for me a mystery....( if that prosperity expectation  is true of course )

 

Something is not logic in your claim  ????

If the UK can strike an agreement with the EU we may do even better, isn't that the EU fear?

[david555]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

If the UK can strike an agreement with the EU we may do even better, isn't that the EU fear?

Same question as few posts above  .... why oh why you keep sitting on the negotiation then ??

 

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Probably no need to ask them

The very fact Johnsons girlfriend is still there and Cummings and King are out on their erse probably says enough.

"Probably", more assumptions, the thread of remainer assumptions....????

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

You're still not prepared to state what the UK are supposed to have given in to.

 

I think you'll find that the EU are, in fact, capitulating on their punishment stance and red lines.

 

No giving in, no capitulating in my opinion on both sides.

However there may be already agreements, or than not.

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

"Probably", more assumptions, the thread of remainer assumptions....????

OK so Cummings and King are still there then are they?

No probably about it.

Its all going so wrong isnt it Trans. Once you Brexiteers had the world at your feet. Playing Big Ben on cassette recorders and celebrating your wonderful Brexit victory. 

Now look at it.

Begging for a deal from the EU. Selling out the fishermen. Bending over to the vile EU ????

[473geo]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

Same question as few posts above  .... why oh why you keep sitting on the negotiation then ??

 

 

Always looking to improve, UK will not snub the EU to prove a point better we work together to promote each others interests, if possible, and enhance the future for both. EU might need a little of that down the road ????

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

Where did that come from. We were discussing the plight of Scotland in a state of independence.

 

Wake up sunshine, it's past lunchtime already.

 

And "4 days negotiation is a tad disingenuous. They've been arguing for many months over their budget contributions. Or were you asleep through that period as well...

I used  the plight of Scotland to refer to the agreement between the E.U. countries.

 

Sorry that this got away from you.

 

But you are right, I was wrong, i am sorry, it seems to occur more frequently now that i am 72+.

However in my opinion, you could have less rude by pointing that I made a mistake.

 

The 4 days negotiation was about :

 

"EU leaders have struck a deal on a huge post-coronavirus recovery package following a fourth night of talks."