Britain and EU to try to rescue post-Brexit trade talks

[Loiner]

8 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

do you know the basic principle of business making deals with different people from different countries with different education, back ground.... a deal it's only good if both parties deal in good faith and a good deal it's only good if good for all the parties involved, if one side tries to underscore the other it will never be a good deal, sooner or later it will come back biting one's rear end, thus always deal in good faith, making a deal it's not or should not be a competition, nobody should try beating the (opponent) other side but instead should try to work together, if one side feels the other side to be dealing in bad faith it all falls as trust will be lost and replaced with distrust/untrustworthy

All deals of this type are a competition in which both sides aim is to get the best out of the deal for their own side. 
The EU wants more than just a trade deal, but to restrict UK policy and world trade, while imposing EU controls and law on the very country which just left their union because we did not want those EU regulations. Negotiations trying to tie us back into the EU is what makes us distrust the untrustworthy EU, there's no working together with them.

[Mavideol]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

You stated that the EU is not bothered about a deal which equates to not being bothered about the 1 million EU workers who will lose their jobs, care to re-think your original post?

is it a fact or just an assumption/estimation made by some UK news site trying to make a sour deal look like a potential catastrophe, if it's a fact, please provide the link....

 

Vogie, I am going to tell you a secret, please don't repeat.... a good deal it's only good if good for both parties, a BAD deal is only bad if bad for both parties, in this case, if a no trade deal is reached it will be bad for both sides, which side will suffer the must it's anybody's guess but my money would be in the UK

Edited October 19, 2020 by Mavideol

[Loiner]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

Isn't it a bit more specific? "... me and my countrymen" who think like me.

No, I extend it to all my countrymen, even if you don't think like me.

You had your chances and lost each time, but will still benefit from our democratic decisions.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

is it a fact or just an assumption/estimation made by some UK news site trying to make a sour deal look like a potential catastrophe, if it's a fact, please provide the link....

 

Vogie, I am going to tell you a secret, please don't repeat.... a good deal it's only good if good for both parties, a BAD deal is only bad if bad for both parties, in this case, if a no trade deal is reached it will be bad for both sides, which side will suffer the must it's anybody's guess but my money would be in the UK

As requested.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/18ff26dc-b4c1-406d-ab68-2eacf24944b7

[Rookiescot]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

You stated that the EU is not bothered about a deal which equates to not being bothered about the 1 million EU workers who will lose their jobs, care to re-think your original post?

Project fear Vogie.

[Mavideol]

15 minutes ago, Loiner said:

All deals of this type are a competition in which both sides aim is to get the best out of the deal for their own side. 
The EU wants more than just a trade deal, but to restrict UK policy and world trade, while imposing EU controls and law on the very country which just left their union because we did not want those EU regulations. Negotiations trying to tie us back into the EU is what makes us distrust the untrustworthy EU, there's no working together with them.

I didn't spoke about what both sides aim was/is or what restrictions, policies, controls or whatsoever, I spoke about trying to make a good deal that would be good for both sides but it's too much for you and right away you started finger pointing, blaming the EU.... not worth my ink,  I rest my case

[Loiner]

4 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I didn't spoke about what both sides aim was/is or what restrictions, policies, controls or whatsoever, I spoke about trying to make a good deal that would be good for both sides but it's too much for you and right away you started finger pointing, blaming the EU.... not worth my ink,  I rest my case

I showed you that the EU is not trying to make a deal that is good for both sides. 
Save your ink and don't just rest your case, but have a good lie down.

[Mavideol]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

As requested.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/18ff26dc-b4c1-406d-ab68-2eacf24944b7

it's a warning nothing else, just a warning like when the bad weather/storms/thunder/typhoon or be be careful the dog might bite you and so forth, nothing happened but you were warned... and btw the figure is 700,000 potential jobs losses.... you have been Warnbed, Vogie...  555

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

I showed you that the EU is not trying to make a deal that is good for both sides. 
Save your ink and don't just rest your case, but have a good lie down.

last try.... there is ALWAYS two versions/opinions to a fact, yours is clear,  maybe, could it be possible that somebody else has a different one,?..... just give it a thought

[Loiner]

27 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if some one wants to buy a mercedes, audi, porsche or whatever car they want, regardless of deal or no deal they still buy it, they may have to pay some (higher) import duties 

You might find some of the higher end model purchasers are still prepared to extend their company money, but not all. When it gets to mid range models the fleet buyers will begin to reconsider cheaper manufacturers. Previous purchasers of entry level models will definitely swap back to cheaper manufacturers. 
All because the EU don't want a deal at any price.

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if some one wants to buy a mercedes, audi, porsche or whatever car they want, regardless of deal or no deal they still buy it, they may have to pay some (higher) import duties but their only solution is to blame BJ and his gang, not EU fault is it? who asked to leave, did the EU pushed/forced/kicked the UK out of the EU membership and its advantages, no they didn't,  please, be so kind, don't blame the EU for the UK mistakes

I am sure some people that are living in the UK that are considering buying a mercedes with a 10% tariff may still purchase a mercedes and I am sure some people will look at alternatives such as Jaguar or Aston Martin if there is no 10% tariff on cars built in the UK.

Looking at recent European polls it appears not everyone out of the 450 million people in Europe wishes to remain in the EU and weren't aware when their countries voted to join the EU that they were entering into a contract that is similar to the now illegal perpetual timeshare contracts.

If the EU is so great there shouldn't be an issue holding  national referendum every 5 or 10 years or is it the case they are not confident that every country would vote yes to remain in the EU

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

last try.... there is ALWAYS two versions/opinions to a fact, yours is clear,  maybe, could it be possible that somebody else has a different one,?..... just give it a thought

Thought about it. Decided you are wrong.

[herfiehandbag]

47 minutes ago, RayC said:

Disenfranchising 48% of the population. Might as well do away with the election in 2024 while you're at it.

Nobody has been disenfranchised.

 

In any democratic decision making process there will be those whose "side" does not win. In any general election there will be those whose favoured party do not win enough seats to form a government. That is not the same as being disenfranchised. In both the referendum and the subsequent general elections you had the same opportunity and right to vote (assuming that you are over 18 and a British Citizen) as anyone else. Your faction in the referendum (remain) lost by 48% to 52%. That is not being disenfranchised. I'm taking a guess that your favoured party in the two subsequent general elections failed to win a majority of seats. Again, that is not the same as being disenfranchised.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

why does the bloc has to compromise, the block doesn't want a deal, thus nothing to compromise, the UK wants a deal they are the ones to compromise

If the EU block don't want a deal, why did they not say that years ago? It would have saved a ton of money and time.

 

And if they didn't want a deal, then what have they been doing since 1st January this year?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

I've never seen a UK fishing quota sale agreement. Do you have a copy of a contract? There are usually a few ways to terminate a contract without breaking it. These type of deals are often for a given period. 

You may need to talk to Tony Bliar about that. IIRC he was the PM when it was sold off cheaply.

 

1 hour ago, RayC said:

deleted post

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Disenfranchising 48% of the population. Might as well do away with the election in 2024 while you're at it.

What 48% of the population are you talking about?

 

Did you mean the 48% of those who voted or 48% of the entire population? You remember that only 72.2% of the population actually turned up to vote and the other 27.8% just couldn't be bothered.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

 

[RayC]

54 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What 48% of the population are you talking about?

 

Did you mean the 48% of those who voted or 48% of the entire population? You remember that only 72.2% of the population actually turned up to vote and the other 27.8% just couldn't be bothered.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

 

Seems a bit pedantic as the point that I was making wasn't dependent on the numbers; the figure could just as easily been 1% and the argument would remain the same.

 

Nevertheless, I'll change "48% of the population" to "34.656% of the population" if you like.

Edited October 19, 2020 by RayC
Correction

[3NUMBAS]

german cars are about to get mighty expensive with no deal ,add on 5000 or more depending on model,,

[billd766]

59 minutes ago, RayC said:

Seems a bit pedantic as the point that I was making wasn't dependent on the numbers; the figure could just as easily been 1% and the argument would remain the same.

 

Nevertheless, I'll change "48% of the population" to "34.656% of the population" if you like.

No, you were posting false information. I am not being pedantic but you don't seem to understand commonsense maths. 

 

If you are going to post something then you really ought to be sure that what you are posting is correct and that you can back it up with links the first time you post it. Otherwise it is simply an opinion and everybody has at least one of those.

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

For Boris it is a massive lever, which could give us a No Deal without even trying.

You should have told Boris that for a No Deal Brexit he doesn’t need “a massive lever”, and that he doesn’t need to backpedal from deadline to deadline like an amateur ???? 

[Loiner]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You should have told Boris that for a No Deal Brexit he doesn’t need “a massive lever”, and that he doesn’t need to backpedal from deadline to deadline like an amateur ???? 

Only last week he's beaten Barnier over the head with it and sent him home. Thanks M. Macron, will you be giving Michel a fundamental change in the EU's approach, to be able to try again?

[RayC]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

No, you were posting false information. I am not being pedantic but you don't seem to understand commonsense maths. 

 

If you are going to post something then you really ought to be sure that what you are posting is correct and that you can back it up with links the first time you post it. Otherwise it is simply an opinion and everybody has at least one of those.

And perhaps you ought to understand the nature and context of the conversation in question before trying to pull me up about.

 

Below is @Loiner post which I commented on, together with my reply. Tell me how replacing 48% with 37%, 1% or any number between 0.1 - 100 alters the nub of my argument? Or are you are suggesting that it is ok to disenfranchise part of the electorate?

 

@loiner: Apologies for quoting your post here, but necessary to make my point.

_--------

 

Remainers and remainerism was a consequence of the referendum. Don't worry though because we won't hang you. As for the division, yes we can do that to your 48%, which we don't need.

Disenfranchising 48% of the population. Might as well do away with the election in 2024 while you're at it.

[welovesundaysatspace]

58 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Only last week he's beaten Barnier over the head with it and sent him home. Thanks M. Macron, will you be giving Michel a fundamental change in the EU's approach, to be able to try again?

Was that the same “last week” where he announced negotiations are over just to backpedal again and keep negotiating? ???? 
 

 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

german cars are about to get mighty expensive with no deal ,add on 5000 or more depending on model,,

And cars manufactured in the UK will face the same tariff in the EU.

You think thats a good thing?

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Have you tried to convince the Mercedes CEO that no deal is better than a deal, any ideas who will buy the  30,398  mercedes cars that were sold in the UK last year

Once Mercedes start laying off workers it will make it more diffcult for Mercedes to remain in F1 with the expenditure required to maintain a F1 team will Mercedes withdraw from F1 as a result of no deal

What cars the present Mercedes buyers in the UK will buy then ? A Thai built Pajero pick-up ?

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Mavideol said:

clearly some British, selfish it's only,  me....me....me and myself

Sorry, I disagree: it's the ENGLISH 

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, Victornoir said:

I believe that you did not understand anything about this confrontation which is not surprising in view of all of your provocative messages.

Macron wants and is active behind the scenes to obtain a divorce without agreement or minimum brino. Go to specialized French forums for confirmation in terms much less civil than mine.

The nations of the south, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece... are all with him. This is why Merkel cannot impose even a fair deal While the German industrial lobbies are pushing for a transaction.

After the Irish border, fishing is a perfect motive for blocking any advance and blaming the relative fishermen's loss on British intransigence. This is why Macron and his friend Barnier will not give up.

So you say Macron (France) wants a no deal plus half of Europe is with him as well? I think that underestimates the influence of Germany.

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

You stated that the EU is not bothered about a deal which equates to not being bothered about the 1 million EU workers who will lose their jobs, care to re-think your original post?

Explain me: why so many EU-érs would loose their job ? Do not forget: a LOT of UK's export to the EU will disappear also. British cars will be replaced by EU made etc. And for fresh vegetables and fruits... you just can stick to "dried" and canned.. 

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Looking at recent European polls it appears not everyone out of the 450 million people in Europe wishes to remain in the EU and weren't aware when their countries voted to join the EU that they were entering into a contract that is similar to the now illegal perpetual timeshare contracts.

If the EU is so great there shouldn't be an issue holding  national referendum every 5 or 10 years or is it the case they are not confident that every country would vote yes to remain in the EU

Which ? Yes, as small minority maybe. 

Bye-the-way: would also be a good idea for the UK: which county/constituency still wants to stay in the UK...

Even the Scots are not allowed by Westminster...

Eur social survey member EU.webp

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

If the EU block don't want a deal, why did they not say that years ago? It would have saved a ton of money and time.

 

And if they didn't want a deal, then what have they been doing since 1st January this year?

same applies to the UK.... the UK doesn't want a deal, why they keep wasting EU's time and energy, it's a 2 way street