Pilings for house, ground too compacted to sink

[DrDave]

I've built 2 houses in Thailand - one in Phuket, and another in the northern provinces. The one in Phuket had 3 stories of post and beam construction with a cement roof requiring numerous pilings due to the sandy/unstable nature of the soil and the weight of the building.

 

The one in the north, was a small 70sqm 1 story structure built with the usual posts and red brick that required no pilings at all. This small home was constructed with footers about 40x40cm with a substantial amount of rebar. The footers were set on top of compacted soil, and tied into the 20x20cm cement posts that had been poured with large integral cement footer pads about 1 meter below grade every 4 meters or so. The above-grade footers were then poured using wooden shutters, and fill dirt was brought in to fill all of the area between the footers and around the perimeter. Finally, the floor slab was poured over the entire area with embedded wire mesh.

 

This house was built over 10 years ago, and there's absolutely no sign of settling or shifting.

[rumak]

52 minutes ago, DrDave said:

I've built 2 houses in Thailand - one in Phuket, and another in the northern provinces. The one in Phuket had 3 stories of post and beam construction with a cement roof requiring numerous pilings due to the sandy/unstable nature of the soil and the weight of the building.

 

The one in the north, was a small 70sqm 1 story structure built with the usual posts and red brick that required no pilings at all. This small home was constructed with footers about 40x40cm with a substantial amount of rebar. The footers were set on top of compacted soil, and tied into the 20x20cm cement posts that had been poured with large integral cement footer pads about 1 meter below grade every 4 meters or so. The above-grade footers were then poured using wooden shutters, and fill dirt was brought in to fill all of the area between the footers and around the perimeter. Finally, the floor slab was poured over the entire area with embedded wire mesh.

 

This house was built over 10 years ago, and there's absolutely no sign of settling or shifting.

 

I have had 7 houses built in the North ( chiangrai, northern CM province,  CM,   lamphun) .....

all as you describe ( don't know what wooden shutters are..... i just know thai words (sow, kahn, etc.   but i think we are talking same construction technique)     Been a few earthquakes in that time, and a flood or two.   All have held up very well.

 

friend in isaan had to use deep posts.  so different areas vary as far as structural techniques needed.              

[jojothai]

7 hours ago, kuma said:

Jojo, house looks great. Is the gap under still at 1m or has there been some fill added since? My old eyes are failing me, looks like less than a metre? I am expecting the floor to be at about my waist height...maybe that white skirt around the perimeter is blocking the true height? 

Nice looking place, sure you are enjoying it.

Cheers

 

The floor level is 1 m above ground,

The beams are about 40cm to 50 cm deep.

Floor slab and finish on top say 12cm.

So the space under the beams is about 40 cm to 50cm. 

I find that is still ok. When i go under the house i use a piece of cardboard or shera on the ground for my back to get under the beams. Once under, there is much more room and easy to move around and do any work. There is about 90cm. I can sit up ok.

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by jojothai
Added comment

[DrDave]

10 hours ago, rumak said:

 

<snip> ( don't know what wooden shutters are..... i just know thai words (sow, kahn, etc.   but i think we are talking same construction technique)  <snip>

           

Yep, we're talking about the same thing. I've heard the term "shutters" used in Thailand - basically what we call "concrete forms" in the US. Since the footers are above ground, something needs to shape and contain the concrete until it cures! This little house was built in the northern part of Phayao, not far from ChiangRai province.

[kuma]

13 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

The ground around the houses in our little moo baan is rock hard. The pilings were place by the classic pile driver. 

All the concrete around the moo baan, without pilings, has cracked due to settling. 
 

Water finds a way ....

 

Hey good day. So today they brought a boring truck and drilled pilot holes for the piles and  then tried the macro whack a mole to try and sink them. It was a mixed outcome. One sunk almost to grade, the remainder went only a metre or ao and again met either very compacted soil and/or rock. So now monday will speak with Tessaban engineer some more. I think builder feels dejected as he thought with the pilot holes they would sink but ....nope. So will now figure out if best to true them up, fill around with concrete for support and then add footings and go...or if ahould pull the pilings out and abandon them. At least loy krathong/halloween is here, lol. First time in my time here loy krathong has been so early.

Cheers

Tried to upload vid but it failed, try later from base

[userabcd]

How are they driving those piles?

 

What they really need is one of those simple pile driving rigs the piling contractors use (tripod, winch, cables and hammer weight) There are lots of these things around Thailand usually operated by 3 people.

 

Does your contractor not have a connection to get advice from someone with basic piling experience?

 

To get the piles in the ground the hammer needs to be dropped on the pile head from a certain height to overcome the grounds end resistance and skin friction. Usually they install a wooden shoe cushion on top of the pile to not damage the top end of the concrete pile when the hammer makes contact.

Edited October 30, 2020 by userabcd

[alacrity]

21 minutes ago, userabcd said:

How are they driving those piles?

 

What they really need is one of those simple pile driving rigs the piling contractors use (tripod, winch, cables and hammer weight) There are lots of these things around Thailand usually operated by 3 people.

 

Does your contractor not have a connection to get advice from someone with basic piling experience?

 

To get the piles in the ground the hammer needs to be dropped on the pile head from a certain height to overcome the grounds end resistance and skin friction. Usually they install a wooden shoe cushion on top of the pile to not damage the top end of the concrete pile when the hammer makes contact.

The shock effect from your description just can't be replicated by a 'backhoe'. Would like to see the architects drawing.

[couchpotato]

Single storey house. Why are bothering with piling. Really overkill. Just use a good size footing (steel rebar/concrete) with the steel rebar columns connected as my photos, which give you the idea. My footing holes were approx 2m deep and one sqm for the rebar footing cage.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:44 AM, Humpy said:

and had no idea what a ring - main was !.

Nobody needs to know what a ring final is apart from  electricians  in the U.K. working on older properties.

 

If you are using them, unless you are a qualified sparky, you are ensuring that any one after you will have a tough dangerous possibly deadly job. Ring finales have a set of tests not taught outside the U.K. and have fun ways of getting you into contact with a circuit that should be dead but isn’t. No ring finales are being installed in the U.K. today unless it by a dinosaur sparky.

 

 

20 hours ago, kuma said:

I did do a tour and visited with six different builders and viewed their previous work before choosing this team. I hope all that leg work is going to pay off.

Make absolutely sure that you pay in arrears so that when your builder quits you are holding money for work performed. You are almost certainly going to have at least 1 group quit or be fired.
 

Even if you are holding money for work done do not pay if they quit, they will demand but you will have to pay more to the new team, they know that and know that if they walk that it the end of payment.

[kuma]

On 10/30/2020 at 8:55 PM, couchpotato said:

Single storey house. Why are bothering with piling. Really overkill. Just use a good size footing (steel rebar/concrete) with the steel rebar columns connected as my photos, which give you the idea. My footing holes were approx 2m deep and one sqm for the rebar footing cage.

Yea figure now the pilings are overkill, but they are in so gonna run with it....i suspect they will not hurt, but correct me if I'm wrong. 

Footings poured today with columns tied in. So we are moving forward in this Loy krathong / Halloween night lol

Thanks for the input, cheers

[kuma]

23 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Nobody needs to know what a ring final is apart from  electricians  in the U.K. working on older properties.

 

If you are using them, unless you are a qualified sparky, you are ensuring that any one after you will have a tough dangerous possibly deadly job. Ring finales have a set of tests not taught outside the U.K. and have fun ways of getting you into contact with a circuit that should be dead but isn’t. No ring finales are being installed in the U.K. today unless it by a dinosaur sparky.

 

 

Make absolutely sure that you pay in arrears so that when your builder quits you are holding money for work performed. You are almost certainly going to have at least 1 group quit or be fired.
 

Even if you are holding money for work done do not pay if they quit, they will demand but you will have to pay more to the new team, they know that and know that if they walk that it the end of payment.

Yea I hear you. I paid first instalment to kick off...so they could buy the piles, lol. Now have a five payment schedule after designated work is complete. They are spear fishing in the stream here in front and getting some nice fish actually....so they like this site, for a jungle stream it's impressive...will update it can get a photo.

Cheers