Three dead as woman beheaded in knife attack at French church

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Can you provide yourself facts and figures?

 

My learning curve is begging.

Only what i read and watch on media,how many other none muslim terrorist groups are committing acts of terrorism in the eu?.

[Opl]

18 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Another biased and unsourced “crime of intention”...

 

":“Get married, beget and multiply because I will be proud of you among nations.”  “Marry the kind and fertile, for I will be proud of your numbers among ...

 

Young Muslim men "run" to the West, this is their intention, see the rubber boats? 

The one who carried out the Nice attack was on one of them.. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[simple1]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Of what?<SNIP>

French Muslim heritage population

[Thorgal]

7 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Only what i read and watch on media,how many other none muslim terrorist groups are committing acts of terrorism in the eu?.

 

Again, you make a comment and ask other posters to prove your statement without providing yourself facts and figures.

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

This is the main Muslim Brotherhood argument to promote its Islamist political salafi agenda among the Muslim Diaspora and Muslim population in the West. 

And what about Vienna terror attack? 

 

Another member posted terrorism is a result of Muslim migration to France. I just commented Muslim migration was founded as an an outcome of French colonialisation; that's it.  Concerning Muslim Brotherhood and Salafism...

 

Salafis and the Brotherhood’s more traditional Islamists are two distinct groups with distinct aims. 

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2015/10/13/fall-of-the-brotherhood-rise-of-the-salafis/

[simple1]

43 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Only what i read and watch on media,how many other none muslim terrorist groups are committing acts of terrorism in the eu?.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe#Modern_trends

[simple1]

53 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

France and UK have allowed and experienced some 150 years of colonial immigration into their own lands.

All other EU countries have a history of recent immigration.

 

There’s no link between colonial migration and radicalisation.

 

Believe you will find a mix of local Muslim heritage citizens and those entered the EU for a relatively short lime plus 'illegals' committing acts of Islamism terror. I understand many acquire weapons from organised crime.

[Thorgal]

41 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

":“Get married, beget and multiply because I will be proud of you among nations.”  “Marry the kind and fertile, for I will be proud of your numbers among ...

 

Young Muslim men "run" to the West, this is their intention, see the rubber boats? 

The one who carried out the Nice attack was on one of them.. 

 

Bilateral accords between France and Tunisia from 2003 allow temporary immigration of 18 months for skilled workers.

 

This law has been made to fill the need of skilled workers in France.

 

The transportation to Lampedusa is costly for average immigrants.

The Tunisian migrant from OP worked illegally in the olive business in Italy. With this money he was able to travel to France.

 

Your fertility theory can be dismissed. 

There are many girls in Italy and Tunisia. He didn’t had to travel to Nice to fulfill that need.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

Another member posted terrorism is a result of Muslim migration to France. I just commented Muslim migration was founded as an an outcome of French colonialisation; that's it.  Concerning Muslim Brotherhood and Salafism...

 

Salafis and the Brotherhood’s more traditional Islamists are two distinct groups with distinct aims. 

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2015/10/13/fall-of-the-brotherhood-rise-of-the-salafis/

 

Anyway, both actors of what Macron recently described as “Islamic separatism.” forming what Macron calls a “counter-society.” 

See the anti-France protests in countries non colonized by France? 

Even 10% of 1.8 billion people is almost 200 million people who think it is their duty to kill disbelievers.

if Christians beheaded Muslims in a mosque  what would the reaction be? 

Among immigrant groups, Muslims have unique resistance to integrating, sharp cultural differences, and introduce the statistical inevitability of terrorism. Unlike other religions, Islam is explicitly political.

I'm not sure France is alone in this situation. 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[simple1]

35 minutes ago, Opl said:

Even 10% of 1.8 billion people is almost 200 million people who think it is their duty to kill disbelievers.

 

Similar stats often quoted, though nothing on that magnitude has manifested. Even when IS were being 'successful' had relatively very few Muslims joining.

 

Among immigrant groups, Muslims have unique resistance to integrating, sharp cultural differences, and introduce the statistical inevitably of terrorism. Unlike other religions, Islam is explicitly political.

 

Here in Australia, whilst there are some Muslims who are disinterested, most integrate into society. Out of a population of approx 630k Muslims, 45 have been convicted for various terrorism offences, with one terrorism related murder - could of course change in an instant.

 

You may be interested in subscribing to Oxford Uni research for consideration...

 

While the discourse is often that Muslims have failed to integrate into French society through an acceptance and enactment of French values and policies, new research is suggesting that the “failed” integration of Muslims reveals a deeper failure of French Republican universalism, equality, and secularism.

 

https://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-798

Edited November 7, 2020 by simple1

[Opl]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Similar stats often quoted, though nothing on that magnitude has manifested. Even when IS were being 'successful' had relatively very few Muslims joining.

 

Among immigrant groups, Muslims have unique resistance to integrating, sharp cultural differences, and introduce the statistical inevitably of terrorism. Unlike other religions, Islam is explicitly political.

 

Here in Australia, whilst there are some Muslims who are disinterested, most integrate into society. Out of a population of approx 630k Muslims, 45 have been convicted for various terrorism offences, with one terrorism related murder - could of course change in an instant.

 

You may be interested in subscribing to Oxford Uni research for consideration...

 

While the discourse is often that Muslims have failed to integrate into French society through an acceptance and enactment of French values and policies, new research is suggesting that the “failed” integration of Muslims reveals a deeper failure of French Republican universalism, equality, and secularism.

 

https://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-798

 

 

And why do we have to go after Imams, close Mosques, schools, NGOs, diverse Muslim associations that are all supported by Muslim living in France (legally and illegally) - including financially - and vice versa?  

it's always an auction of victimhood when it comes to Muslim diaspora, one of the reasons they don't succeed to integrate in a country like France, despite generous social welfare benefits.

It's a state of mind they have. It's always someone else's  fault. 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

 

And why do we have to go after Imams, close Mosques, schools, NGOs, diverse Muslim associations that are all supported by Muslim living in France (legally and illegally) - including financially - and vice versa?  

it's always an auction of victimhood when it comes to Muslim diaspora, one of the reasons they don't succeed to integrate in a country like France, despite generous social welfare benefits.

It's a state of mind they have. It's always someone else's  fault. 

 

 

You're not interested in viewing research which may provide some insights - never mind...

[Thorgal]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

 

 

And why do we have to go after Imams, close Mosques, schools, NGOs, diverse Muslim associations that are all supported by Muslim living in France (legally and illegally) - including financially - and vice versa?  

it's always an auction of victimhood when it comes to Muslim diaspora, one of the reasons they don't succeed to integrate in a country like France, despite generous social welfare benefits.

It's a state of mind they have. It's always someone else's  fault. 

 

 

Majority of jihadi terrorists have a criminal past combined with jail time before engaging in terrorism.

 

Criminal activities include drugs use+dealing, smuggling, possession of illegal weapons, thefts, hold ups, etc.

 

Those criminal activities are noticeable as well for EU jihadis as MENA region jihadis.

 

Majority of jihadi terrorists didn’t finish secondary school education.

 

Jihadi with a low financial criminal past tend to go over in terrorism. Rich/successful  ones are not or less committed to terrorism.

 

Majority of jihadi terrorists are more often joined with each other by connections made in jail or by previous joint civil criminal activities. 

[Opl]

25 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Majority of jihadi terrorists have a criminal past combined with jail time before engaging in terrorism.

 

Criminal activities include drugs use+dealing, smuggling, possession of illegal weapons, thefts, hold ups, etc.

 

Those criminal activities are noticeable as well for EU jihadis as MENA region jihadis.

 

Majority of jihadi terrorists didn’t finish secondary school education.

 

Jihadi with a low financial criminal past tend to go over in terrorism. Rich/successful  ones are not or less committed to terrorism.

 

Majority of jihadi terrorists are more often joined with each other by connections made in jail or by previous joint civil criminal activities. 

 

this doesn't answer my questions - as we say in French, your replies are totally off the mark..  

but anyway you've just established the chain : illegal Muslim migration - smugglers and traffickers - criminality - radicalization - Jihadism

 It is astonishing to see how much these terrorists need help to achieve their crimes: accompanied to buy a knife,  transported, all the logistic before, and after.

They are just the last link and by no way lone wolves, all others are enablers if not those who triggered the fatwa, but they are just silent so undetected, accomplices therefore guilty, it's a mafia-type ecosystem we have to deal with.    

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[Thorgal]

3 hours ago, Opl said:

 

Anyway, both actors of what Macron recently described as “Islamic separatism.” forming what Macron calls a “counter-society.” 

See the anti-France protests in countries non colonized by France? 

Even 10% of 1.8 billion people is almost 200 million people who think it is their duty to kill disbelievers.

if Christians beheaded Muslims in a mosque  what would the reaction be? 

Among immigrant groups, Muslims have unique resistance to integrating, sharp cultural differences, and introduce the statistical inevitability of terrorism. Unlike other religions, Islam is explicitly political.

I'm not sure France is alone in this situation. 

 

 

Average transit time for refugees in EU is 3 months.

 

The Tunisian Terrorist slipped through the screening process of Lampedusa, the Red Cross and Bari Immigration.

 

He worked illegally in Italy without encountering local authorities.

 

He travelled up till north in full covid-19 confinement.

 

He entered France without quarantine and control.

He slept 2 nights in a shopping plaza in front of the basilique.

 

He used a cell phone card without providing address to contact his family in Tunisia.

 

He doesn’t speak French but was able to travel with 3 knifes.

 

Nice is known as the city with most cameras in France.

 

Macron should have a serious talk with his MoFA and MoI how this guy could come in so easily.

[Thorgal]

9 minutes ago, Opl said:

this doesn't answer my questions, but anyway you've just described the chain : Muslim migration - criminality - radicalization - Jihadism

 It is astonishing to see how much these terrorists need help to achieve their crimes: accompanied to buy a knife,  transported, all the logistic before, and after.

They are just the last link and by no way lone wolves, all others are enablers if not those who triggered the fatwa, but they are just silent so undetected, accomplices therefore guilty, it's an ecosystem we have to deal with.    

 

Your twisting my comments.

 

Jihadi terrorism has nothing to do with migration. It’s a sociologic consequence of education, criminality and poverty.

 

Many French jihadis from La Reunion, French Guyanne, Madagascar,  Guadeloupe and Martinique joined IS/AQ in Syria and Iraq. Nonof these French overseas regions had Muslims in the past.

[Thorgal]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

You're not interested in viewing research which may provide some insights - never mind...

 

A decent comparative study:

 

https://www.iris-france.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/GLOBSEC_WhoAreTheEuropeanJihadis-Midterm-Report.pdf

 

 

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Your twisting my comments.

 

Jihadi terrorism has nothing to do with migration. It’s a sociologic consequence of education, criminality and poverty.

 

Many French jihadis from La Reunion, French Guyanne, Madagascar,  Guadeloupe and Martinique joined IS/AQ in Syria and Iraq. Nonof these French overseas regions had Muslims in the past.

you've been answered already, enjoy your WE, 

[FarangULong]

On 10/29/2020 at 1:29 PM, tgw said:

 

Agreed.

 

yet a number of things also have to change in France and in Europe.

 

also, the Muslims themselves should also help cleaning up their ranks of extremist nutters.

 

in Germany, not too long ago, extremists there setup "sharia patrols" to scold other Muslims in German streets if they saw women smoking cigarettes, or unaccompanied by a man.

according to media reports, hate speech has been going on for ages in certain mosques, why don't Muslims organize "sharia patrols" to spy on extremists and their networks and report them?

I guess this already has been going on behind the scenes, but doing it officially would send a message. it's time that Muslim religious leaders do more than just condemning these attacks, it's time for them to act against extremists. The big bosses should address their flock and ask every one of them to personally report to them any extremist activities.

 

then internationally, people like Erdogan are stirring the pot, it's time Erdogan gets put on a muzzle. Merkel and Macron need to talk with Putin, give him whatever assurances he needs and see that this has an end.

Thank you, very good post.

 

The Gutmenschen always talk about "majority of Muslims" bla bla bla, like they actually understand Islam (especially pure Islam, as originated in what is now Saudi Arabia and is taught in Saudi Imam schools etc. to clerics going all over the World, esp. to Europe, with books printed there used to teach children in Europe, etc..). Whenever someone points to unmistakeable Surahs and Hadiths (esp. the revered kind) and Fatwas, etc. they say "but there is violence in the bible too". They must either be desperate to twist the truth, or they have grown up in a Commie household, where religion was only to be mocked and not studied. I'm not the church going type either (I was raised Lutheran Protestant, but I still remember religious studies until I was old enough to sign myself out + reading the bible)...

 

The "violent stuff" in the Bible is all Old Testament. Ergo the Jews. Christians live by the NEW Testament. There are no calls for violence, not even against unbelievers. No calls for forcing them to convert at swordpoint, no calls to make them 2nd class citizens and enforcing a taxi on them. No calls to enslave them.

 

That's the Jews with their "Goyim" (especially in the Talmud, very eye opening read), and the Muslims and their "Kafirs". Each as bad as the other, in many aspects.

 

Then there is the fact, that Muslims are allowed to not only deny that they're Muslims, but also to lie about their faith, if "threatened with or actually persecuted" (taqiyya). Considering how it's chique to claim racism, islamophobia, discrimination (even though most of Central, Western and Scandinavian Europe has bent over backwards, to accomodate Muslims and their constant whining about things that offend them), they're ALWAYS in a position to lie, while living here, from their theological view.

 

And even if - for argument's sake - the actual majority of them DID condemn the attacks, what good does it do? To me it would be nothing more, than paying lip service. If they were really "repulsed" by it, they (the community, the congregation, as well as the clerics) would inform authorities, if someone starts spouting off "radical" rethoric, and it gets to the point that they themselves can't fix it (ie the person leaves to attend another mosque, one more suited to their beliefs). This happens rarely. Very rarely. Many of these attacks (esp. when it was groups of "homegrown" terrorists), could have been prevented that way.

 

Instead they hush it all up. And many of them have the thought of Islam+violence = acceptable planted in their heads at a very young age. I knew this for years (as I used to be a real scumbag, hanging out with mostly Turks, doing things I shouldn't have been doing, but not related to Islamist terror or religion, and they told me things/I saw things in their homes), so I wasn't surprised when there were articles, about imams etc. beating the kids for not reciting Quran verses correctly.

 

Basically they must recite them by heart, in ARABIC (but yeah, "it's a religion for everyone"... yet you're supposed to read/recite/pray in Arabic... totally not an ethnocentric ideology, disguised as a religion..), a language they do NOT speak (they often can't even speak proper Turkish, let alone write it). Any mistake, and you get a smack in the mouth/hit with a stick....

 

Here's a personal anecdote: I was working with another young Turk (this was approx in 2014), born here, accent free German, studying at uni, etc... there was this group of Turks working with us at that particular gig, from a sub contractor... they constantly took breaks to pray, and at one point they pulled my young colleague aside, literally encircled at him, and started jabbering away in Turkish.... I asked him later what they wanted, thinking it was something to do with religion... and naturally, he tells me "Oh they asked me stuff like if I liked religious music, what Mosque I pray at, then they said 'Oh, that's not REAL Islam, come to our Mosque bla bla', and told me that they give most of hteir money to the mosque, ....." etc... I asked him to report this stuff together, so these guys wouldn't be hired anymore, as it's imo unacceptable, that they accost fellow Turks/Muslims, with their Wahabbist-/Salafist-esque agenda.

 

He was clearly very uncomfortable about that, so I let it go. And that right there is the problem. They are uncomfortable about a) sharing such negatives experiences outside of their own culture/community and b) then go ahead and actually report it to ANYONE (let alone actual executive or judicial authorities)...

 

If a young man, bright, seemingly well integrated etc. won't do it, why would the Hinteranatolian peasant, working at the factory and only knowing enough words in German/French/whatever to get by at the factory/construction site/whatever?!

 

That is where the blame lies, with these alleged "moderate" Muslims.

 

There are reports done undercover in allegedly "moderate" Mosques, where you can see first hand, the sort of books printed in Saudi Arabia, and used to "educate" children about "Kafirs" etc. and what to do with them... Where you can see, that Muslims are told not to be our friends, and only "befriend" us to try and convert us, etc. And what their plans are, for when they have the majority...

 

And another great example, of well integrated, moderate/"non-practicing" Muslims are the 7/7 bombers.... everyone thought they were just normal "British" university students, partying, drinking, etc. All the while they planned to blow up innocent people. And they did... and they did....

 

 

There was a survey, not so long ago, that showed 20% of Muslims had sympathy for Muslims going to fight in Syria (which includes Al Quaeda/Al Nusra, ISIS and the farce of the "Free Syrian Army", etc.). And those are just the honest ones. Who knows, how many of these other 75% were telling the truth? Not that 25% by itself is any less shocking, or worrisome...Just like in a survey done in 2006, 1 in 4 British Muslims believed the 7/7 attacks were justified....

 

So even - again, for arguments sake - if the vast majority "condemn" (where are these loud, cried out condemnations? Where are the demonstrations by MIllions of Muslims against this violence, calling for peace and understanding? Yet they can come out in droves with signs that read "behead those who insult Islam", if some Egyptian weirdo makes a somewhat comical yet idiotic movie about MOhammad, or if someone draws a cartoon?!?!) terrorist attacks and the like, what are THEY doing to stop it? What are THEY doing, to help our authorities STOP it? What are THEY doing, to help de-radicalise?

 

Just like in a survey done in 2006, 1 in 4 British Muslims believed the 7/7 attacks were justified....

[FarangULong]

On 10/29/2020 at 4:35 PM, Opl said:

it will become difficult to tell us that Islam and Islamism are not the same.

Today Lyon, Decines (Anti-Armenian Rally), "Grey Wolves" militiaman asks Turkish government for money and weapons to "do whatever needs to be done, anywhere in France

The Grey Wolves (Bozkurtlar in Turkish), officially known as “Idealist Homes” (Ülkü Ocakları in Turkish), is a Turkish ultranationalist armed organization. The movement is described as neo-fascist, anti-communist, anti-Greek, anti-Kurdish, anti-Armenian, homophobic, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian.

 This is what happens, when guys like Erdogan are allowed to tour the Turkish diaspora in Europe, protected on the tax payers dime, to make election campaigning.

 

When he was in Germany, he made speeches telling them to "stay Turkish" and "don't integrate", etc...

 

It's not just Grey Wolves either... now we have "Osmanen BC (Box Club)", a "club" with chapters all over Germany and now Austria, which has a structure like 1% Motorcycle Clubs, minus the Motorobikes. Turkic (as in Turks, Azeris, Turkmenis, etc.) people and people from all over the ex Empire (Bosnians, etc.) are joining there under the banner of Ottoman "nationalism" (Imperialism? not sure whta to call it, imperial nostalgia maybe?) and probably (although I cannot prove that beyond doubt) to have a powerful force, to fight over territory for drugs, prostitution, etc.

 

Already there were issues in ie Austria (but also parts of Germany) with 1% clubs already in areas where Osman BC chapters established themselves, shifting alliances (with United Tribus, the original chapter founded by a group of Bosnian pimps - the kind that force women into prostitution, not just brothel owners/operators, with their leader having fled Germany to hide in Bosnia- for example, another group similar to Osmanen BC), and so on...

 

But yes, whenever there is massive brawls and assaults on Kurdish groups, now Armenians etc., it's almost always the Bozkurts behind it.... Erdogan's abroad militia of thugs...

[FarangULong]

On 10/30/2020 at 4:09 AM, overherebc said:

In the words of Mr McEnroe

You cannot be serious.

In the words of me:

 

Some people are so "differently abled" (as they say in the UK, or at least they did when I lived there...), that I wonder how they manage to breathe, operate a keyboard, and not drool all over said keyboard, all at the same time...

 

I don't know how he could have made his sarcasm any more obvious, than it already was....

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Again, you make a comment and ask other posters to prove your statement without providing yourself facts and figures.

 

You asked a question,i made a suggestion as to why pethaps they could be percieved as a threat and you,ve started a spanish inquisition,big differance between making a statement as to making a suggestion,so stop trying to put words in peoples mouths.

[kingdong]

8 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Bilateral accords between France and Tunisia from 2003 allow temporary immigration of 18 months for skilled workers.

 

This law has been made to fill the need of skilled workers in France.

 

The transportation to Lampedusa is costly for average immigrants.

The Tunisian migrant from OP worked illegally in the olive business in Italy. With this money he was able to travel to France.

 

Your fertility theory can be dismissed. 

There are many girls in Italy and Tunisia. He didn’t had to travel to Nice to fulfill that need.

Not much skill is needed to pick olives,also you state he worked illegally,obviously didn,t want to contribute anything towards the country that took him in.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, FarangULong said:

In the words of me:

 

Some people are so "differently abled" (as they say in the UK, or at least they did when I lived there...), that I wonder how they manage to breathe, operate a keyboard, and not drool all over said keyboard, all at the same time...

 

I don't know how he could have made his sarcasm any more obvious, than it already was....

Anything else?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   Continued with the anti-Islam agenda and get suspended.   Enough.  

 

[Thorgal]

11 hours ago, kingdong said:

Not much skill is needed to pick olives,also you state he worked illegally,obviously didn,t want to contribute anything towards the country that took him in.

 

You need a work permit in Italy. If you’re a transmigrant you have to leave the country within 7 days.

 

“His older brother Yassin, 38, said: 'He bought new clothes and a mobile phone in France with the money he had earned working harvesting olives in Italy.”

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8902211/Terrorist-sent-SELFIE-family-hours-launching-deadly-attack.html

 

https://de.reuters.com/article/us-italy-migrants-slavery-idUSKCN0WV13U

[Thorgal]

12 hours ago, FarangULong said:

Thank you, very good post.

 

The Gutmenschen always talk about "majority of Muslims" bla bla bla, like they actually understand Islam (especially pure Islam, as originated in what is now Saudi Arabia and is taught in Saudi Imam schools etc. to clerics going all over the World, esp. to Europe, with books printed there used to teach children in Europe, etc..). Whenever someone points to unmistakeable Surahs and Hadiths (esp. the revered kind) and Fatwas, etc. they say "but there is violence in the bible too". They must either be desperate to twist the truth, or they have grown up in a Commie household, where religion was only to be mocked and not studied. I'm not the church going type either (I was raised Lutheran Protestant, but I still remember religious studies until I was old enough to sign myself out + reading the bible)...

 

The "violent stuff" in the Bible is all Old Testament. Ergo the Jews. Christians live by the NEW Testament. There are no calls for violence, not even against unbelievers. No calls for forcing them to convert at swordpoint, no calls to make them 2nd class citizens and enforcing a taxi on them. No calls to enslave them.

 

That's the Jews with their "Goyim" (especially in the Talmud, very eye opening read), and the Muslims and their "Kafirs". Each as bad as the other, in many aspects.

 

Then there is the fact, that Muslims are allowed to not only deny that they're Muslims, but also to lie about their faith, if "threatened with or actually persecuted" (taqiyya). Considering how it's chique to claim racism, islamophobia, discrimination (even though most of Central, Western and Scandinavian Europe has bent over backwards, to accomodate Muslims and their constant whining about things that offend them), they're ALWAYS in a position to lie, while living here, from their theological view.

 

And even if - for argument's sake - the actual majority of them DID condemn the attacks, what good does it do? To me it would be nothing more, than paying lip service. If they were really "repulsed" by it, they (the community, the congregation, as well as the clerics) would inform authorities, if someone starts spouting off "radical" rethoric, and it gets to the point that they themselves can't fix it (ie the person leaves to attend another mosque, one more suited to their beliefs). This happens rarely. Very rarely. Many of these attacks (esp. when it was groups of "homegrown" terrorists), could have been prevented that way.

 

Instead they hush it all up. And many of them have the thought of Islam+violence = acceptable planted in their heads at a very young age. I knew this for years (as I used to be a real scumbag, hanging out with mostly Turks, doing things I shouldn't have been doing, but not related to Islamist terror or religion, and they told me things/I saw things in their homes), so I wasn't surprised when there were articles, about imams etc. beating the kids for not reciting Quran verses correctly.

 

Basically they must recite them by heart, in ARABIC (but yeah, "it's a religion for everyone"... yet you're supposed to read/recite/pray in Arabic... totally not an ethnocentric ideology, disguised as a religion..), a language they do NOT speak (they often can't even speak proper Turkish, let alone write it). Any mistake, and you get a smack in the mouth/hit with a stick....

 

Here's a personal anecdote: I was working with another young Turk (this was approx in 2014), born here, accent free German, studying at uni, etc... there was this group of Turks working with us at that particular gig, from a sub contractor... they constantly took breaks to pray, and at one point they pulled my young colleague aside, literally encircled at him, and started jabbering away in Turkish.... I asked him later what they wanted, thinking it was something to do with religion... and naturally, he tells me "Oh they asked me stuff like if I liked religious music, what Mosque I pray at, then they said 'Oh, that's not REAL Islam, come to our Mosque bla bla', and told me that they give most of hteir money to the mosque, ....." etc... I asked him to report this stuff together, so these guys wouldn't be hired anymore, as it's imo unacceptable, that they accost fellow Turks/Muslims, with their Wahabbist-/Salafist-esque agenda.

 

He was clearly very uncomfortable about that, so I let it go. And that right there is the problem. They are uncomfortable about a) sharing such negatives experiences outside of their own culture/community and b) then go ahead and actually report it to ANYONE (let alone actual executive or judicial authorities)...

 

If a young man, bright, seemingly well integrated etc. won't do it, why would the Hinteranatolian peasant, working at the factory and only knowing enough words in German/French/whatever to get by at the factory/construction site/whatever?!

 

That is where the blame lies, with these alleged "moderate" Muslims.

 

There are reports done undercover in allegedly "moderate" Mosques, where you can see first hand, the sort of books printed in Saudi Arabia, and used to "educate" children about "Kafirs" etc. and what to do with them... Where you can see, that Muslims are told not to be our friends, and only "befriend" us to try and convert us, etc. And what their plans are, for when they have the majority...

 

And another great example, of well integrated, moderate/"non-practicing" Muslims are the 7/7 bombers.... everyone thought they were just normal "British" university students, partying, drinking, etc. All the while they planned to blow up innocent people. And they did... and they did....

 

 

There was a survey, not so long ago, that showed 20% of Muslims had sympathy for Muslims going to fight in Syria (which includes Al Quaeda/Al Nusra, ISIS and the farce of the "Free Syrian Army", etc.). And those are just the honest ones. Who knows, how many of these other 75% were telling the truth? Not that 25% by itself is any less shocking, or worrisome...Just like in a survey done in 2006, 1 in 4 British Muslims believed the 7/7 attacks were justified....

 

So even - again, for arguments sake - if the vast majority "condemn" (where are these loud, cried out condemnations? Where are the demonstrations by MIllions of Muslims against this violence, calling for peace and understanding? Yet they can come out in droves with signs that read "behead those who insult Islam", if some Egyptian weirdo makes a somewhat comical yet idiotic movie about MOhammad, or if someone draws a cartoon?!?!) terrorist attacks and the like, what are THEY doing to stop it? What are THEY doing, to help our authorities STOP it? What are THEY doing, to help de-radicalise?

 

Just like in a survey done in 2006, 1 in 4 British Muslims believed the 7/7 attacks were justified....

 

In short, you promote laicism and secularism against jihadi terrorism.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

 

You need a work permit in Italy. If you’re a transmigrant you have to leave the country within 7 days.

 

“His older brother Yassin, 38, said: 'He bought new clothes and a mobile phone in France with the money he had earned working harvesting olives in Italy.”

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8902211/Terrorist-sent-SELFIE-family-hours-launching-deadly-attack.html

 

https://de.reuters.com/article/us-italy-migrants-slavery-idUSKCN0WV13U

 You just forgot something crucial.. new clothes.. a mobile phone .... and ..and ......?.

try harder. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Opl

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

 

In short, you promote laicism and secularism against jihadi terrorism.

 

When you live in France, you don't need to promote Laicité and Secularism . You have to abide by our Constitution and Laws above all, (no individual or group may use their origin or religion to exempt themselves from the common rule)/

 

- 1789: France abolishes the crime of blasphemy

-1880: Jules Ferry lays the foundations for free secular schools - (There should be no overlap between priest and teacher - schoolchildren be taught that all philosophical ideas are subject to scrutiny  by reason and science)

- In 1905, the adoption of the law on the separation of church and state introduced the principle of a strict separation between the private and public spheres (Religion is private matter)  

- 1946: Secularism enters the Constitution - (prohibition of political and religious propaganda in schools)

- 2004: Ban on wearing conspicuous religious symbols in schools

 

It's as simple as that,  anti-France foreign political agenda on these matters are the reason causing these repeated terror attacks since years, if not decades.

 

We, French know where we come from, there is no way for France to return back to 1789, and bend to superstition and ignorance.  

Don't agree ? There are better choices for you on the Planet.      

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Opl

[El Matador]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:36 PM, FarangULong said:

Just like in a survey done in 2006, 1 in 4 British Muslims believed the 7/7 attacks were justified....

 

That is where the real problem is.

The terrorists are a very tiny percentage.

But there is a big group inside the muslim community who finds violence and death as perfectly normal for infidels although they don't practise it personally.

And the most violent people are among the the youngest generation unfortunately because the salafi approach of the Islam has been spread by Saudi Arabia in the last decades with a mountain of petrodollars.

People forgot it but the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. It is not a coincidence.

 

I remembered visiting Egypt after the Arabic spring during their brief democratic time. I went inside a demonstration full of extremist people from the salafi political party. They all wanted a hardcore sharia in the constitution. They did about 28% at the elections. The Muslim brotherhood party (an islamist party) did about 37% : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Egyptian_parliamentary_election

Imagine most Egyptian ladies didn't wear the hijab in the 50's during Nasser regime. Things have changed quickly.

So just after ending the military dictatorship, Egyptians went voting for the craziest people.

My thought on democracy changed from that day.

If the poor-middle classes in Arabic countries don't have access to a decent education without extremist religion, democracy is pointless, they will vote for what the immams will tell them to vote and transit towards a theocracy.

An enlighted authoritarian power might be needed during the transition.

The problem is Europe is importing a bit too much of those uneducated people and their children may have access to those radical views with the internet too. Daesh recruited through the internet. Those with education integrate much better.

I met very openminded muslims people but most of them had access to a good education or from that older generation who grew up with a more peaceful islam.

Unfortunately too many young muslims may have very antisemitic, homophobic speeches. And they justify it because it is written in the Koran. And this a big problem with religion, if we start using the holly book as source of law or way of life with a strict interpretation, we could easily find some sentences to justify mass murders.