When a Venn diagram can tell it all...

 

42 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

If recounts are imposed will they include states won by Trump or only won by Democrats.?

AFAIK recounts are not imposed(ie. by a court), but come automatically once a defined threshold is met which varies by state. Thus, even states won by Trump may have to be recounted (in general; I’m too lazy to look up every state’s legislation now and compare it against the state’s results). Recounts are standard procedure in elections. In the past, however, they rarely changed anything. 

This is not a case of Bush vs. Gore where some 500 votes in one state decide everything. This is a situation of a democratic candidate clearly winning several key states vs. a corrupt, pathological liar with a history of fraud who made it clear from the very beginning on that he will do everything to steal the election.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by welovesundaysatspace

I recall an election in the Philippines in Marcos days, supporters making a big deal about poll tampering etc. when it was themselves running the martial law regime.  And of course they fixed it.  Seems nothing is original with this guy. 

I suspect DT is listening to Steve Bannon today.

 

 

i think he is suffering from post covid dementia and if Jared or Mitch cannot persuade him to do the right thing he will be turned out of the WH like a dead beat at one of his hotels.

"President Trump is racing to raise money for an “official election defense fund.” But the fine print on the solicitations tells a different story: Half -- or more -- of any contribution will be used to retire debt from his re-election campaign."

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/zU0rMlE7ltxzuW4lIwai

12 minutes ago, Opl said:

"President Trump is racing to raise money for an “official election defense fund.” But the fine print on the solicitations tells a different story: Half -- or more -- of any contribution will be used to retire debt from his re-election campaign."

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/zU0rMlE7ltxzuW4lIwai

I wonder how much of the debt he has had to guarantee personally. The vultures are circling.

I've never contributed to any political party, IMO anyone who does that is either corrupt or crazy.

 

5 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Hopefully everybody agrees the election result must be seen as legitimate. Proper investigations into Trump's claims must be made, and fast. If, as he claims, there is enough fraudulent/irregular activities to swap tightly fought state results from Dem to GOP then he could be elected President. More than a few dozen instances of fraud then a full audit of every vote nationwide must be done to ascertain the scale of wrongdoing. After the Russia fiasco we know the left take alleged election interference seriously enough to waste many years over. A full audit now would only take a few days.

 Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Says Putin

4 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

Evidence or even winning the court cases are not part of Trump's strategy.  The strategy is through recounts and court challenges to delay the certification of the electoral votes until the deadline of Dec. 8.  If by that date there is not certified count in some of the states with Republican-controlled legislatures (WI, MI, PA) the legislature could conceivably step in and declare that to avoid disenfranchising the entire state, they will pick the electors, who will then cast their votes for Trump.  So then the Democrat governor exercises her authority to certify the Democrat slate of electors per the popular vote, and Congress on Jan 6 faces two competing slates of electors for the state.  In that case the Senate and the House separately vote which slate to accept.  If, as is likely, the Rs still control the Senate and the Ds the House, then they do not agree and there is no way to reconcile the discrepancy.  If this scenario plays out in enough states to prevent Biden from getting the necessary 270 majority of the EC, the House elects the president with each state getting one vote and Trump remains president.

 

If you imagine that a state legislature wouldn't dare steal the vote in this manner, you might note that the Republican legislature in Florida was in the process of doing exactly then when the Supreme Court stole the election for them.

 

This strategy looked a lot more plausible for Trump when it looked like the EV count would be very close.  Now that Biden is probably going to get 306 EVs, it's looking more difficult to pull out.  But, and this is the important point to remember, Trump is still actively pursuing this strategy.

That, if it were to happen, would set off the constitutional crisis to end all constitutional crisis!

 

Imagine, Congress being manipulated to overturn the results of the election!

 

It would utterly destroy any claim by the United States to be a democracy, and quite possibly lead to widespread protests and civil disobedience which would make the country ungovernable.

That would in turn require using the military to maintain order. Since the military takes it's oath of loyalty to the Constitution, would they be prepared to play?

 

Before that happens however would the Republican Party as a whole be prepared to take such a step? For the scenario you outline to succeed Mr Trump would need total control of the party; and the long term political risk to the party (and the careers of many, many aspiring office holders) would be immense!

sore loser... it's all a bunch of BS without any supporting evidence, same as he did with the coronavirus, "it will be gone with disinfectant and strong blue light" also said "we have it under control, turning the corner"   all of it as always with not evidence whatsoever, nothing more then a crying baby and a sore loser

8 hours ago, webfact said:

he does not plan to concede anytime soon.

sore loser.... his legacy will be one of the worse in the American history, he was impeached , had ONLY 1 term full of contradictions/arguments, lost of allies and refused to accept defeat, that's a great legacy or CV to add to his previous bad deals and bankruptcies, 3 words..... Lock Him Up

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by Mavideol

Trump has no interest in conceding, he just wants to do as much damage as possible before he’s going to have to vacate the WH in January. He’s like a kid who’d rather break his toy than let anyone else play with it. 

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

sore loser.... his legacy will be one of the worse in the American history, he was impeached , had ONLY 1 term full of contradictions/arguments, lost of allies and refused to accept defeat, that's a great legacy or CV to add to his previous bad deals and bankruptcies, 3 words..... Lock Him Up

"Super Trump" piece of Legacy - hadn't he been POTUS, maybe he wouldn't be planning rallies, so Trump is a very lucky person, in fact. 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/coronavirus-treatment-made-me-feel-like-superman-donald-trump/videoshow/78923190.cms

Just now, rudi49jr said:

Trump has no interest in conceding, he just wants to do as much damage as possible before he’s going to have to vacate the WH in January. He’s like a kid who’d rather break his toy than let anyone else play with it. 

He is now planning for rallies style campaign to challenge the election results. This is a volatile and incendiary strategy and can lead to wide scale unrest. I hope the GOP leaders will knock some sense to him and stop this attempt to incite his supporters. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-plans-to-revive-campaign-style-rallies-as-he-pursues-legal-challenges-to-election-results

it's all a game for him ...

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/explainer-trump-pardon-associates-himself-111828658.html

Explainer: Can Trump pardon his associates — or himself?

In 2018, Trump even said he had the "absolute right" to pardon himself

 

53 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

That, if it were to happen, would set off the constitutional crisis to end all constitutional crisis!

 

Imagine, Congress being manipulated to overturn the results of the election!

 

It would utterly destroy any claim by the United States to be a democracy, and quite possibly lead to widespread protests and civil disobedience which would make the country ungovernable.

That would in turn require using the military to maintain order. Since the military takes it's oath of loyalty to the Constitution, would they be prepared to play?

 

Before that happens however would the Republican Party as a whole be prepared to take such a step? For the scenario you outline to succeed Mr Trump would need total control of the party; and the long term political risk to the party (and the careers of many, many aspiring office holders) would be immense!

 

Be serious.  Where was the constitutional crisis when the Supreme Court executed a judicial coup to steal the election for Bush in 2000?   You have to understand that the Republican Party since Gingrich has been committed to a strategy of minority rule since the electorate overwhelmingly supports a progressive agenda while the Rs support only the wealthy donor class.  The Rs need to find a president who can persuade the voters to vote against their own interests.  Bush was able to do that.  McCain and Romney couldn't.  Then along comes Trump whom they despise, but once he shows that he can win, then they are on the bandwagon full stop.  In addition, they rely on voter suppression, voter id laws, bogus claims of voting fraud, and gerrymandering to disenfranchise the majority which is carried out at every level of the R party from the counties and states to Congress to the Supreme Court.  Do you see any evidence of an interest in democracy here.  I don't.  Democracy is the Republicans' enemy.

 

As I said in my post, I don't think Trump's strategy is likely to work now since Biden will have 306 electoral votes which would make the coup much more difficult to pull off.  If the ev count between Trump and Biden were a lot closer and if Fox News and the Republicans in Congress were screaming "stop the steal" at the top of their lungs, and if hundreds of thousands of high school dropouts with AR-15s were marching across the country, then they would have had a good chance of pulling it off.  But that hasn't happened, so I think it will fail.  The Republicans would do that and more to steal the election if they could get away with it.

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by cmarshall

26 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

it's all a game for him ...

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/explainer-trump-pardon-associates-himself-111828658.html

 

Explainer: Can Trump pardon his associates — or himself?

In 2018, Trump even said he had the "absolute right" to pardon himself

 

 

Trump can and will pardon all of his loyal associates from his own kids to Manafort, Flynn, etc.  A self-pardon can't be trusted since his lawyers will explain to him that it might well be overturned in court.  The safer option is for Trump to resign and accept a pardon from President-for-a-month Pence which will make him immune for all federal crimes he has ever committed, bullet-proof and can't be revoked.  Worth having for sure.

 

The pardon from Pence is the best outcome for the Biden administration since they neither want to prosecute him nor to let him off the hook.  They will be outsourcing his prosecution to the NY Attorney General Tish James who will send him to prison, unless he has fled the country first.

50 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Trump has no interest in conceding, he just wants to do as much damage as possible before he’s going to have to vacate the WH in January. He’s like a kid who’d rather break his toy than let anyone else play with it. 

the Trump family  will not vanish from the political arena with the election,  the "kids" will stay in orbit with an inheritance of 70M followers    

Just now, Opl said:

the Trump family  will not vanish from the political arena with the election,  the "kids" will stay in orbit with an inheritance of 70M followers    

The kids are going to prison even with presidential pardons.  Bad luck for them that pops located the criminal enterprise in a Democratic state.

6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Agree entirely. If there is no evidence, then there is no substance to the claims. However Trump's team must be given time to sort through the irregularities. Issues like the 6,000 GOP votes in Antrim co, MI which were magically converted to be Biden votes MUST be fully investigated. Was it a computer glitch? If so how many other counties used the faulty software? Was it human error? If so was it an accident, or was it repeated on any substantial scale?

 Without knowing the details and evidence, there is just no way Trump should concede. His fans will never forgive him for not fighting this. And one thing Trump does not do, is run from trouble.

For once, I agree with you. Antrim's administration is GOP, and the counting made under GOP supervision. It could well be a case of GOP cheating again. Biden was winning and suddenly the GOP local administration comes up with an incredible story of computer glitch and change the result to makevTrump win!

Are they kidding us?

????????????????????

Edited November 9, 20205 yr by candide

6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Issues like the 6,000 GOP votes in Antrim co, MI which were magically converted to be Biden votes MUST be fully investigated. Was it a computer glitch?

 

Antrim County did experience a minor election tech issue this week, the GOP’s explanation is highly misleading. For one, local authorities caught and reported the problem early on in the vote tabulating process, so the error was never reflected in the state’s official results

 

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/11/no-theres-isnt-a-glitch-in-michigan-election-software-that-flipped-thousands-of-trump-votes/

For those with interest. Here is a little history of the 2016 recount and Trumps reaction.

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/30/13764566/jill-stein-presidential-recount-explained

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

Trump has no interest in conceding, he just wants to do as much damage as possible before he’s going to have to vacate the WH in January. He’s like a kid who’d rather break his toy than let anyone else play with it. 

Should drag him out now. He's bitter, furious, full of sour grapes, and slightly crazy. And he's still got the helm for another 2 months. He could start WW3 in that time. A good friend of mine who is a lawyer told me when a lawyer hands in his notice or is terminated from a law firm he/she is paid up and gone at the end of that day. They don't want someone working off a month or two notice because they can become mischievous and steal clients, do all sorts of damage.  

17 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Antrim County did experience a minor election tech issue this week, the GOP’s explanation is highly misleading. For one, local authorities caught and reported the problem early on in the vote tabulating process, so the error was never reflected in the state’s official results

 

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/11/no-theres-isnt-a-glitch-in-michigan-election-software-that-flipped-thousands-of-trump-votes/

And another relevant information is that the local administration is Republican. ????

This just gets more and more embarrassing.  Giuliani giving his last press conference outside a garden centre in Pennsylvania, instead of the luxury hotel where they announced it would be held.  Surely these people can see that they are becoming a laughing stock around the world.

A post with multiple disallowed social media links has been removed.

 

See the forum rule re news content:
 

Quote

 

Social Media content is not to be used as  source material unless it is from a recognized or approved news media source,  the source of any such material (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube  etc.) should always be shown.

 

 

24 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

This just gets more and more embarrassing.  Giuliani giving his last press conference outside a garden centre in Pennsylvania, instead of the luxury hotel where they announced it would be held.  Surely these people can see that they are becoming a laughing stock around the world.

Even better, the landscaping shop is between a crematorium and a sex toy shop.

 

Absolutely brilliant.

Trump has lost the election.  But the Republican Party mustn't let Trump's behaviour now, damage them anymore.  They owe it to the republican voters to steady the ship and distance themselves from the petulance and manic ravings of the ex POTUS. 

The reality is that the man will do all he can to disrupt the new administration but it will be mostly bluster and appeals to his supporters. He is now just a harmless broken wind-up toy. Leave the winding to his acolytes. 

 

The man is a paper tiger now and should simply be ignored like any child throwing a tantrum. 

 

I thank the gods that I don't have to waken every morning and cringe at some antic he's pulled. I was forced to before because his actions could have tremendous impact on the country and the world. That is no longer true. 

 

America needs to focus on the economy and the virus threat. Toss this man in your trashbin where he belongs. 

 

 Check the Trump Comedy Hour occasionally for laughs if you want, but otherwise take advantage of the chance to ignore him and his henchmen. They are literally yesterday's news. 

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

FTR seeing the reaction to these issues, I want to see a full audit for each and every vote. Regardless of the media rage and how long it takes.

And I want more hair on top of my head. In both cases, it just ain't gonna happen.

20 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Trump has lost the election.  But the Republican Party mustn't let Trump's behaviour now, damage them anymore.  They owe it to the republican voters to steady the ship and distance themselves from the petulance and manic ravings of the ex POTUS. 

Almost all of them are still afraid of him as confronting him could kill their future in politics.