DeSombre out as Ambassador to Thailand???

[KhunFred]

Since incoming President Biden will likely appoint his own Ambassador to Thailand, any bets on whether the Statutory Declaration of Income letters

might be reinstated?   DeSombre is known to be a typical deluded Trumper, might this auger well for bringing back the income letters? The current banking

method has been a disaster,so I am anxious to see whether "new blood" might restore the previous seamless procedures for expats to state their income.

[khunjeff]

Regarding the title of your post, yes, it's likely (though certainly not definite) that there will be a change of ambassador. When a new administration comes in, all ambassadors submit resignation letters so that the incoming president can accept those of the people he wants to replace. In most cases, the resignations of political appointees will be accepted, and ambassadors who are career officers will be allowed to finish their terms.

 

There are always exceptions, though, and the timing can also vary - Trump required all Obama political appointees to leave their embassies by the date of his inauguration, while other administrations have typically allowed some outgoing political appointees to stay until their successor arrives, or their children finish the school year. It can also depend on just how "political" the ambassador is - is s/he just a fatcat donor, or an area expert?

 

As for the thrust of your question, you should not expect income affidavits to return at the US Embassy. The decision to stop doing them would have been made almost entirely by the Consul General in Bangkok and the Bureau of Consular Affairs in Washington, and isn't an issue that an Ambassador would be involved in. 

[moontang]

21 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Since incoming President Biden will likely appoint his own Ambassador to Thailand, any bets on whether the Statutory Declaration of Income letters

might be reinstated?   DeSombre is known to be a typical deluded Trumper, might this auger well for bringing back the income letters? The current banking

method has been a disaster,so I am anxious to see whether "new blood" might restore the previous seamless procedures for expats to state their income.

It is no secret that many using the letters were scamming, almost as bad as the ED visas.

[kingstonkid]

I would think that no matter who the ambassador is there is no way that they will be doing any of the income letters.

 

First they would need embassy staff that could handle the worklt

They would have to create a system that would allow them to verify the infory people provide is legit 

Most importantly the thai foreign affairs and immigration woul have to be assured that the us was in fact checking and insuring the validity.

 

For Canadians that means Canadian bank statements or proof of pensions. Just saying so does not work. Also immigration wants to see the proof also.

 

 

 

[KhunFred]

35 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

I would think that no matter who the ambassador is there is no way that they will be doing any of the income letters.

 

First they would need embassy staff that could handle the worklt

They would have to create a system that would allow them to verify the infory people provide is legit 

Most importantly the thai foreign affairs and immigration woul have to be assured that the us was in fact checking and insuring the validity.

 

For Canadians that means Canadian bank statements or proof of pensions. Just saying so does not work. Also immigration wants to see the proof also.

 

 

 

Make photocopies of the Social Security, State Pension payments, and annuity statements. How complex can that be??  Pure stupidity to think you need a separate STAFF to handle routine paperwork.

[KhunFred]

Making simple tasks impossibly complex is a feature of Thai thinking. The western way is to reduce complexity to the simplest terms. I like OUR way best. Cut off all funds if they can't agree.You cannot win by showing weakness to Thais. When you show them STRENGTH, they understand.

[RJRS1301]

7 hours ago, khunjeff said:

Regarding the title of your post, yes, it's likely (though certainly not definite) that there will be a change of ambassador. When a new administration comes in, all ambassadors submit resignation letters so that the incoming president can accept those of the people he wants to replace. In most cases, the resignations of political appointees will be accepted, and ambassadors who are career officers will be allowed to finish their terms.

 

There are always exceptions, though, and the timing can also vary - Trump required all Obama political appointees to leave their embassies by the date of his inauguration, while other administrations have typically allowed some outgoing political appointees to stay until their successor arrives, or their children finish the school year. It can also depend on just how "political" the ambassador is - is s/he just a fatcat donor, or an area expert?

 

As for the thrust of your question, you should not expect income affidavits to return at the US Embassy. The decision to stop doing them would have been made almost entirely by the Consul General in Bangkok and the Bureau of Consular Affairs in Washington, and isn't an issue that an Ambassador would be involved in. 

The resignation letters are signed on appoitment, only awaiting the dates to be inserted if and when required, they remain on file from day one for many federal employees and appointees

[Jingthing]

It's a reasonable question but I see no reason for optimism regarding a change in policy on the income letters.

 

For various reasons.

 

One of them is that if I recall correctly the odious and hurtful decision to throw American expats under the songthaews  was made before the installation of the current ambassador.

 

It is true that the current ambassador is a political appointee of Mr. Trump. In fact he's a very active republican with no previous diplomatic background.

 

So certainly it's possible or even likely that President Elect Joe Robinette Biden will replace him hopefully with an actually qualified and experienced career diplomat. 

 

If that happens I don't think there would be anything to lose by trying to communicate with a new ambassador to propose a compromise service. 

 

That would be to provide income letters based on expats providing standard documents proving U.S. government issued social security and military pensions.

 

Expats could also approach their elected representatives in the district and state where they might still be voting from to complain about this shoddy treatment of American citizens in Thailand by our embassy.

 

Other U.S. embassies in other countries provide a similar service for American expats in other countries. So why not here?

 

[Traubert]

39 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Making simple tasks impossibly complex is a feature of Thai thinking. The western way is to reduce complexity to the simplest terms. I like OUR way best. Cut off all funds if they can't agree.You cannot win by showing weakness to Thais. When you show them STRENGTH, they understand.

Yeah, CRUSH them.

 

After all, you are only in their backyard........

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

I would think that no matter who the ambassador is there is no way that they will be doing any of the income letters.

 

First they would need embassy staff that could handle the worklt

They would have to create a system that would allow them to verify the infory people provide is legit 

Most importantly the thai foreign affairs and immigration woul have to be assured that the us was in fact checking and insuring the validity.

 

For Canadians that means Canadian bank statements or proof of pensions. Just saying so does not work. Also immigration wants to see the proof also.

 

 

 

I thought with Canadians the embassy wanted to see tax statements verifying income? Could be wrong though for I've never utilized this method..

[kingstonkid]

5 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Make photocopies of the Social Security, State Pension payments, and annuity statements. How complex can that be??  Pure stupidity to think you need a separate STAFF to handle routine paperwork.

 

I would agree but it is not the paperwork that will take the time it is the volume and the possible need to verify the information. remember these have to be handled by American staff not Thai.  Also if you ask the embassy to do something they will automatically say we need more staff you know that.

[kingstonkid]

4 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

I thought with Canadians the embassy wanted to see tax statements verifying income? Could be wrong though for I've never utilized this method..

Nope I have been using the bank statement method and had no issues but I bring a copy of each month.  been doing it for 10 years

 

The problem with the tax statement is that somethings are non taxable.

 

[KhunFred]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's a reasonable question but I see no reason for optimism regarding a change in policy on the income letters.

 

For various reasons.

 

One of them is that if I recall correctly the odious and hurtful decision to throw American expats under the songthaews  was made before the installation of the current ambassador.

 

 

 

True, but the decision originated with the existing staff at the Embassy, NOT from above. The US Embassy merely followed the lead of the British Embassy, which had quite enough of the unreasonable demands of Thai Immigration. The honor system worked just fine. There are always going to be those who lie about their income, but it is a simple matter to show income tax documents such as a letter from Social Security. One can get similar documents from annuities and state retirement pensions. Of course, the embassy officials might actually have to LOOK at the documents to ascertain their validity. In any case, they could not be held liable, since they have diplomatic immunity.

[Andy from Kent]

19 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Make photocopies of the Social Security, State Pension payments, and annuity statements. How complex can that be??  Pure stupidity to think you need a separate STAFF to handle routine paperwork.

 

Is doing an income letter  for expats a part of the US Embassy's "Mission"?

[KhunFred]

1 minute ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

Is doing an income letter  for expats a part of the US Embassy's "Mission"?

Their "mission" has been fluid ever since they have had an office in Thailand. It seems to be whatever they want it to be. Some (myself included) feel that they do very little to serve American expats in Thailand. Embassy jobs amount to little more than luxury patronage positions. They are handsomely rewarded for doing nearly nothing. If they had it their way, they would define their "mission" as attending parties, barhopping and goofing off for most of the day. I have seen the inside of public sector employment, up close and personal and I am not encouraged by what I have seen.

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

Is doing an income letter  for expats a part of the US Embassy's "Mission"?

Support services for Americans in Thailand are definitely part of their mission.

Again if the U.S. embassies in Colombia and Peru can provide a similar service for American retired expats in those countries, why not here?

[anterian]

Having had dealings in the past with British embassies in Budapest, Beijing, Manila and Kuala Lumpur I decided they are a waste of time, so I have avoided all contact with the embassy in Bangkok. 

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

True, but the decision originated with the existing staff at the Embassy, NOT from above. The US Embassy merely followed the lead of the British Embassy, which had quite enough of the unreasonable demands of Thai Immigration. The honor system worked just fine. There are always going to be those who lie about their income, but it is a simple matter to show income tax documents such as a letter from Social Security. One can get similar documents from annuities and state retirement pensions. Of course, the embassy officials might actually have to LOOK at the documents to ascertain their validity. In any case, they could not be held liable, since they have diplomatic immunity.

I find it very hard to believe that the ambassador at the time they terminated the letters was not aware of both the decision to throw American expats under the songthaew and also the dissatisfaction of the expats being impacted. 

[sqwakvfr]

Just in term of Foreign Policy the To Do List for the incoming Biden Administration is so long Thailand would be near the bottom.  For instance the US Ambassador to China resigned a few months.ago and this post is vacant.  I’m pretty sure  the post in Beijing is very high on the list.  

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

Just in term of Foreign Policy the To Do List for the incoming Biden Administration is so long Thailand would be near the bottom.  For instance the US Ambassador to China resigned a few months.ago and this post is vacant.  I’m pretty sure  the post in Beijing is very high on the list.  

President Elect Joe Biden can walk and chew gum at the same time. 

[KhunFred]

36 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I find it very hard to believe that the ambassador at the time they terminated the letters was not aware of both the decision to throw American expats under the songthaew and also the dissatisfaction of the expats being impacted. 

There WAS no Ambassador until Trump appointed DeSombre. The previous envoy had departed when Trump was sworn in and was not replaced for years.

[John Drake]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:11 AM, moontang said:

It is no secret that many using the letters were scamming, almost as bad as the ED visas.

 

Where is your proof for this slanderous statement? Back it up. If you cannot support it with hard evidence, it should be withdrawn. I, for one, used the letter. I now use the 800,000 in the bank. Most others I know who used the letter are doing likewise or using the monthly transfer method--although I don't know why as it seems to be a system fraught with potential problems, not least of which is the mercurial way in which some TI offices accept it and others, apparently, from posts on this board, do not.

[sqwakvfr]

“President Elect Joe Biden can walk and chew gum at the same time”

 

After watching him speak a few times I’m not sure about that.  After all he is 77.

The good news is Kamala is only 56 and she will do the “heavy lifting”.  

[KhunFred]

57 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Support services for Americans in Thailand are definitely part of their mission.

Again if the U.S. embassies in Colombia and Peru can provide a similar service for American retired expats in those countries, why not here?

You know that and I know that, but Embassy staff have a list of "least favorite" things to do and Stat Dec letters top the list. They pull their "duties" out of their ars.

[John Drake]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It is true that the current ambassador is a political appointee of Mr. Trump. In fact he's a very active republican with no previous diplomatic background.

 

What sticks out in my mind that on one of his initial meetings with a lower ranking Thai government official, he was photographed on stage or in a corridor wearing nothing but his socks. I can't imagine the Chinese ambassador being caught in a photograph in his stocking feet or barefoot. The ambassador humiliated himself.

[Jingthing]

42 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

“President Elect Joe Biden can walk and chew gum at the same time”

 

After watching him speak a few times I’m not sure about that.  After all he is 77.

The good news is Kamala is only 56 and she will do the “heavy lifting”.  

Well at least he's not a dog faced pony soldier.

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

There WAS no Ambassador until Trump appointed DeSombre. The previous envoy had departed when Trump was sworn in and was not replaced for years.

I sit down corrected.

[ubonjoe]

This is topic has turned into rehash of the same discussion that were done over two years ago when I posted this topic over 2 years ago.

 

The embassy is not going to do income affidavits again. This topic now