Australian special forces allegedly killed 39 unarmed Afghans - report

[thaibeachlovers]

I doubt any soldiers who have ever been in an actual war will be so quick to judgement as some on this thread.

[Ventenio]

I'm sure they didn't say HOW the 39 (likely more) were killed.

 

Maybe some were done in the most horrible way possible.......imagine seeing something so bad and they you crack and it becomes worse.  

 

i'm sure we all think it's one bullet to the head.  i'm sure it was never that kind.  

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

I'm sure they didn't say HOW the 39 (likely more) were killed.

 

Maybe some were done in the most horrible way possible.......imagine seeing something so bad and they you crack and it becomes worse.  

 

i'm sure we all think it's one bullet to the head.  i'm sure it was never that kind.  

and maybe it wasn't done the way it's being claimed. No one has been in a court yet.

I'm pretty sure the taliban indulge in a spot of unpleasantness with any allied soldiers they capture though.

[RJRS1301]

19 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

I'm sure they didn't say HOW the 39 (likely more) were killed.

 

Maybe some were done in the most horrible way possible.......imagine seeing something so bad and they you crack and it becomes worse.  

 

i'm sure we all think it's one bullet to the head.  i'm sure it was never that kind.  

Perhaps instead of unfounded speculation you could wait until you have the opportunity to read the report of the Four year investigation carried out by a former supreme court justice. 
Those referred by the report findings will now face investigation by criminal prosecutions and experts, not armchair warriors with absolutely no knowledge of the situations. 
Keep your wild Fox News reporting skills where they belong. Unpublished 

Edited November 21, 2020 by RJRS1301

[simple1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt any soldiers who have ever been in an actual war will be so quick to judgement as some on this thread.

 

You see no crime in following orders to murder restrained POWs or civilians; reminder not killed during 'the heat of battle, but after combat operations ceased for the purpose of 'blooding'. Aren't Western forces trained not to follow unlawful orders.

 

Personally i find it concerning many on this forum who claim military experience, seek to excuse cold blooded murder; outside of combat operations; is such action commonplace in your or your fellow soldiers experience of the battlefield?

Edited November 22, 2020 by simple1

[Salerno]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt any soldiers who have ever been in an actual war will be so quick to judgement as some on this thread.

 

Would that include the actual whistleblowers/witnesses involved in the 4 year investigation?

[UncleMhee]

On 11/20/2020 at 6:54 AM, ezzra said:

Jus to show you that even countries with squeaky clean image of rules of engagements and honorable behavior and conduct are not without a blemish... and oh boy, what a blemish, enough to tarnish Aussie forces name for generations to come...

Perhaps you need to rethink your post @ezzra

The Anzac Legend, the Light Horse and Surafend Massacres. We've never had anything to be proud of...... 
"Just how badly the Anzacs did their blocks when it came to murdering all of the males older than 16 in the Arab village of Surafend 100 years ago would become evident to the British, Australian and New Zealand military officials in the days and months afterwards during a series of secretive inquiries that swept the truth into the corners of history."
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/postcolonial-blog/2018/dec/10/the-moment-that-forever-changed-my-perspective-on-anzac-mythology

 

And to add insult to injury; when the Yanks refuse to work with you, you've really mucked up......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/soldiers-killed-man-who-could-not-fit-on-aircraft-says-us-marine/12782756

Edited November 22, 2020 by UncleMhee

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

Perhaps you need to rethink your post @ezzra

The Anzac Legend, the Light Horse and Surafend Massacres. We've never had anything to be proud of...... 
"Just how badly the Anzacs did their blocks when it came to murdering all of the males older than 16 in the Arab village of Surafend 100 years ago would become evident to the British, Australian and New Zealand military officials in the days and months afterwards during a series of secretive inquiries that swept the truth into the corners of history."
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/postcolonial-blog/2018/dec/10/the-moment-that-forever-changed-my-perspective-on-anzac-mythology

 

And to add insult to injury; when the Yanks refuse to work with you, you've really mucked up......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/soldiers-killed-man-who-could-not-fit-on-aircraft-says-us-marine/12782756

What civilians don't want to admit is that when hard men are sent to do hard work that they themselves would not do, bad things can happen. It's easy to talk of rules and suchlike from a safe place thousands of miles away from where the fighting is going on.

IMO no politician should send men to do hard work if they are not leading them from the front.

[Thorgal]

On 11/21/2020 at 4:02 AM, Edwin Cameron said:

War is war, that's what happens in areas of conflict,somtimes innocent people are killed,just remember the 'Taliban' don't wear uniforms.

 

 

Remember the US, UK and AUS special forces that infiltrated the Taliban by dressing like them and having a beard just to spot their movements and to evaluate incoming logistics from Pakistan.

 

‘Taliban’ means ‘students’ in Arabic and was originally the generation of Afghani children that lived under the forced migration in Pakistan. They have been radicalised in these ‘madrasahs’ in Pakistan funded by Middle Eastern muslim countries and the CIA.

 

That ‘forced migration’ in the 80’s was part of the ‘de-population’ program from the Soviets.

 

The Afghani mudjahidin that fought in the 80’s against the Soviets with US funding had also no distinct uniforms.

 

The Afghani mudjahidin that fought in the 90’s in the Yougoslavian wars in the Balkan with US funding had also no distinct uniforms.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/green-beret-native-real-reason-pushed/story?id=24419590

Edited November 22, 2020 by Thorgal

[simple1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What civilians don't want to admit is that when hard men are sent to do hard work that they themselves would not do, bad things can happen. It's easy to talk of rules and suchlike from a safe place thousands of miles away from where the fighting is going on.

IMO no politician should send men to do hard work if they are not leading them from the front.

 

Australian forces are all volunteers, nobody forced them to into combat operations, you observation makes no sense. BTW are you a 'hard man'' in the context of your posts in this topic.

[Baerboxer]

On 11/20/2020 at 9:05 AM, simple1 said:

Australian SAS in Afghanistan had been recognised as the best of the best by NATO commanders. Announcement of war crimes prosecutions in the coming years, is a major blow to the prestige of Australian armed forces.

 

Cold bloodied murder of unarmed POW and civilians (so called 'blooding' of new recruits) by Oz SF in Afghanistan has been front page news here in Oz for a few days. The SAS squadron mainly responsible for the murders has been disbanded and removed from the military order of battle - all those who served (approx 3000) have to hand in their awards for service in Afghanistan.

 

Could you provide citations for the recognizing of Australian SAS as "best of the best" by NATO commanders please?

 

Thanks in advance.

[UncleMhee]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What civilians don't want to admit is that when hard men are sent to do hard work that they themselves would not do, bad things can happen. It's easy to talk of rules and suchlike from a safe place thousands of miles away from where the fighting is going on.

IMO no politician should send men to do hard work if they are not leading them from the front.

My response to @ezzra is in context to his post.

 

Your response is just gibberish considering the Surafend action was in the cool down period post WW1. A deliberate murderous action swept under the carpet as noted; just a few mates having a party, letting off a bit of steam.....nothing whatsoever to do with hard men doing a hard job.

 

Luckily though there's statute of limitations on stuff or we'd still be in the dark believing a totally false nationalistic narrative; which you appear to be more than happy to adhere to, going on the apologetic nature of your quote.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by UncleMhee

[RJRS1301]

59 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

My response to @ezzra is in context to his post.

 

Your response is just gibberish considering the Surafend action was in the cool down period post WW1. A deliberate murderous action swept under the carpet as noted; just a few mates having a party, letting off a bit of steam.....nothing whatsoever to do with hard men doing a hard job.

 

Luckily though there's statute of limitations on stuff or we'd still be in the dark believing a totally false nationalistic narrative; which you appear to be more than happy to adhere to, going on the apologetic nature of your quote.

 

Personaly, while I am hoping for justice for those who were alledgedly murdered, (criminal investigations begining), i am glad this has come out into the open.

Cultural change can only occur when wrongs are acknowledged, and those responsible held to account.

 

I believe that the heads of the services and government  accepting the report may be the begining of change from a toxic practice by a "few". 

 

[simple1]

7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Could you provide citations for the recognizing of Australian SAS as "best of the best" by NATO commanders please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

i read the accolades in an article in The Australian newspaper on the day I posted which has a paywall for me, so cannot link or cut and paste. There was reference to a number of senior commanders, mainly US, who had been responsible for Afghanistan, one of whom was Mattis. I have managed to locate some comments I can link to via the Weekend Australian  from 2011. You can of course do further searches. Hopefully the info is sufficient and won't trigger a bunch of silliness; mine is better than yours etc etc  Quote from the link...

 

But our special forces - the SAS and the commandos - are altogether different. The ambition is always that they be the best in the world. And they are.

*Edited for Fair Use*

 

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-finest-troops-but-mission-bound-to-fail/news-story/2d9dcebb3e263c4cb8c86d190755dc76

.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Scott

[evadgib]

Of interest to the board, particularly from the halfway point onwards.

 

[chainarong]

And the top brass have all been exonerated, and no mention of the UN commanders having any knowledge. A lot of <deleted> is going to excreta out after some former Commando's have taken their views to the daily rag, great piece in this mornings West Australian. 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

My response to @ezzra is in context to his post.

 

Your response is just gibberish considering the Surafend action was in the cool down period post WW1. A deliberate murderous action swept under the carpet as noted; just a few mates having a party, letting off a bit of steam.....nothing whatsoever to do with hard men doing a hard job.

 

Luckily though there's statute of limitations on stuff or we'd still be in the dark believing a totally false nationalistic narrative; which you appear to be more than happy to adhere to, going on the apologetic nature of your quote.

 

Your reply to my quoted remark has no bearing on the words you quote. I have no idea what you are on about.

[UncleMhee]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Your reply to my quoted remark has no bearing on the words you quote. I have no idea what you are on about.

You quoted my first post to piggy back off of, in order to postulate and  spew totally unrelated narrative to what I'd posted. Why bother to quote something then not bother to address the content? Is it possibly because your post couldn't stand on its own!!

Get it now!!

Edited November 23, 2020 by UncleMhee

[RJRS1301]

7 hours ago, chainarong said:

And the top brass have all been exonerated, and no mention of the UN commanders having any knowledge. A lot of <deleted> is going to excreta out after some former Commando's have taken their views to the daily rag, great piece in this mornings West Australian. 

There has been a report from an non criminal investigation, so there is no exoneration at this stage, No one has been charged to be exonerated. 

1. (of an official body) absolve (someone) from blame for a fault or wrongdoing.

"an inquiry exonerated those involved"

There is to be a criminal investigation, of 19 individuals, referred from the report,  which may  implicate others, I am sure the services will have no choice but to do followup on many matters yet to come to light

Edited November 23, 2020 by RJRS1301

[Sujo]

The investigation showed criminal charges should be done. Armed forces are not immune simply because they wear a uniform. Its not a licence to kill at will.

[RJRS1301]

Just now, Sujo said:

The investigation showed criminal charges should be done. Armed forces are not immune simply because they wear a uniform. Its not a licence to kill at will.

Matters has been referred for criminal invetigation, involving 19 individuals.

The Cheif of Armed Services and the PM have accepted the report findings.

To imply that there is an "immunity through uniform" is incorrect in this instance 

[from the home of CC]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:58 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I was in the forces and we were all trained killers, even if we never went near a war. What else would we have been? We were not trained to be social workers.

 

How nice to be disdainful of men sent to do a job that most would never do. Isn't there a saying about how soldiers are never appreciated till the enemy is at the gates?

they can't handle the truth? is that what you're saying..

[tifino]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

The investigation showed criminal charges should be done. Armed forces are not immune simply because they wear a uniform. Its not a licence to kill at will.

unless they are the SCN Forces, which Aust Fed Law has already been put in place to give Immunity

[simple1]

11 hours ago, tifino said:

unless they are the SCN Forces, which Aust Fed Law has already been put in place to give Immunity

 

Immunity has been offered to SF members (so far I understand 9 people) willing to testify against those who ordered them to unlawfully kill.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

You quoted my first post to piggy back off of, in order to postulate and  spew totally unrelated narrative to what I'd posted. Why bother to quote something then not bother to address the content? Is it possibly because your post couldn't stand on its own!!

Get it now!!

I still have no idea what you are talking about.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

they can't handle the truth? is that what you're saying..

I fail to see the relevance of that to what I said.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, chainarong said:

And the top brass have all been exonerated, and no mention of the UN commanders having any knowledge. A lot of <deleted> is going to excreta out after some former Commando's have taken their views to the daily rag, great piece in this mornings West Australian. 

Commanders are responsible for what happens under their command. "I didn't know" is not a defence.

 

As they say, ignorance is not an excuse under the law.

[tifino]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Commanders are responsible for what happens under their command. "I didn't know" is not a defence.

 

As they say, ignorance is not an excuse under the law.

yes... as the current CDF was back then the Officer Commanding SAS. The Buck Stops with the Boss

[Sujo]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:42 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

It's always different from the safety of one's room far away from the fighting.

Its not different for this ex sas commander.

 

https://www.news.com.au/national/exsas-commander-andrew-hastie-hits-out-at-toxic-personalities-after-war-crimes-report/news-story/930a574a5e6bd6a807c101c9980eb9bd

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Its not different for this ex sas commander.

 

https://www.news.com.au/national/exsas-commander-andrew-hastie-hits-out-at-toxic-personalities-after-war-crimes-report/news-story/930a574a5e6bd6a807c101c9980eb9bd

From the link

“The warrior ethos I sometimes saw was about power, ego and self-adulation. It worshipped war itself. It was the opposite of the humility that I expected to find at SASR.

 

Did he grow up on stories of King Arthur?

One gets all sorts in the military, and not all ( none in my actual experience ) conform to the myth of white knights.