America has had 18 Presidents in the 20th century ----in that same period they gave out 20,000 pardons or commutations ....Twenty Thousand

 

Approximately 20,000 pardons and commutations were issued by U.S. presidents in the 20th century alone-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States

 

*** Better make that 17, Kennedy didn't get much of a chance to do it.

21 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Folks are waiting to see if he pardons himself for any federal crime. Of course he cannot pardon himself or anyone else for State charges. This is a problem not only for 45 (NY State), but also for manafort, since he can be charged with State tax evasion for not declaring his income from Yanukovych and Ukraine (he was convicted of Federal Tax Evasion for not declaring the same income).

 

 

 

 

NY State Supreme Court already ruled that out based on double je.opardy

Just now, placeholder said:

NY State Supreme Court already ruled that out based on double je.opardy

Do you have a source for that claim, since federal tax evasion and state tax evasion are not the same crimes?

Just now, cmarshall said:

Do you have a source for that claim, since federal tax evasion and state tax evasion are not the same crimes?

From what I've read, Trump can not pardon himself for state crimes. Only federal. Luckily.

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

From what I've read, Trump can not pardon himself for state crimes. Only federal. Luckily.

He certainly cannot pardon himself or anyone else for state crimes.  It's a matter of dispute as to whether he can pardon himself for any federal crime.  My opinion is that a self-pardon would not hold up in court, but with the current, corrupt Supreme Court, anything is possible.

A post suggesting that we all ignore real news and instead get all of our information from highly inaccurate far right wing conspiracy sites, along with a number of replies have been removed.

20 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

America has had 18 Presidents in the 20th century ----in that same period they gave out 20,000 pardons or commutations ....Twenty Thousand

 

Approximately 20,000 pardons and commutations were issued by U.S. presidents in the 20th century alone-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States

 

*** Better make that 17, Kennedy didn't get much of a chance to do it.

Actually he had plenty of opportunities. Nothing in the Constitution says you have to wait until the last few months.

54 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually he had plenty of opportunities. Nothing in the Constitution says you have to wait until the last few months.

He has now realized he lost. Though he's still playing up the fraud angle to get donations from the less intelligent.

Next will be Epstein’s girlfriend I guess. 

7 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Well, from Flynn's POW that was the problem; the case had merits, lots and lots of merits. Anyway, hopefully they can get him on another charge and stick him in the pen where the trump family and entourage will be incarcerated. That facility will surely need a new name. How about Swampcatraz!?

'The Sharpie Pen' has a certain ring to it.

10 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Flynn is an American Hero, justice served.

I must admit he was a force to be reckoned with according to reports! The disgraced fbi couldn't make up their mind up if he was guilty or not as reported in the classified memos that sat around for years until a new DNI was installed and declassified them ! So divided my country is on people and politics! 

 Good for you Mr. Trump ! Hopefully many more to come!

28 minutes ago, riclag said:

I must admit he was a force to be reckoned with according to reports! The disgraced fbi couldn't make up their mind up if he was guilty or not as reported in the classified memos that sat around for years until a new DNI was installed and declassified them ! So divided my country is on people and politics! 

 Good for you Mr. Trump ! Hopefully many more to come!

Shows how brainwashed Trump supporters are. Flynn failed to disclose he was a foreign agent for Turkey. Appeared on a regular basis on Russia Today. Lied to Pence about his actions.

 

My, how far the GOP has fallen.

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

he can void the pardon.

Where in the constitution does it say that?

It doesn't have to be listed in the constitution.
There is no reason why a pardon could not be challenged in court. In many cases it is up to the SCOTUS to interpret what the constitution represents, (just look at the latest ruling over NYC covid restrictions and religious centres)

 

And I quote from Toad of Toad Hall.

 

William Barr, President Donald Trump's nominee for attorney general, said during his confirmation hearing Tuesday that it would be illegal for the president to pardon someone in exchange for that person's silence.

Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy asked Barr if a president can "offer a pardon in exchange for the witness's promise not to incriminate the president."

"No, that would be a crime," Barr replied.

So if the pardon is an illegal pardon meant in someway to obstruct justice, (to be argued in court), then in theory this could be challenged in court.

 

Flynn is one of the BEST, he deserves a pardon.  Hasn't he been through enough?  Let him be.  He shared be aware a medal for putting up with nonsense. 

20 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Flynn is an American Hero, justice served.

I beg to differ Flynn is a disgruntled vet he was trying to do underhanded illegal deals with the Turks and russans he got caught he plead guilty no more no less beeing a vet doesent give you the rite to break the law and in danger national security trump fears him imo because he has dirt now Flynn can’t hide behind the 5th so he may still be a threat to trump meh who cares anyway 

Here's a link to an article by a law professor on why it would be unconstitutional if Trump were to try to pardon himself:

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/73539/why-a-self-pardon-is-not-constitutional/

 

The gist is that the language of the Constitution and the history of pardons under English common law require that the giver of a pardon and the recipient cannot be the same person.  I am pretty sure a self-pardon by Trump would be struck down in the federal courts at least until he appealed it to the Supreme Court where anything could happen with the current bunch of extreme right-wing nutjobs.

32 minutes ago, Tug said:

I beg to differ Flynn is a disgruntled vet he was trying to do underhanded illegal deals with the Turks and russans he got caught he plead guilty no more no less beeing a vet doesent give you the rite to break the law and in danger national security trump fears him imo because he has dirt now Flynn can’t hide behind the 5th so he may still be a threat to trump meh who cares anyway 

Flynn's clearly a traitor.

16 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Flynn's clearly a traitor.  It should also be pointed out that Flynn lied to protect Trump.  He could have admitted that he talked to Kislyak during the transition and probably crossed the line to encroach on the Obama administration's conduct of foreign policy and nothing would have happened to him.  But he didn't do that.  He lied instead to protect Trump whose orders he was carrying out.  So, the pardon is likely to be an attempt to obstruct justice and therefore illegal.  

If we get an aggressive Attorney General then he or she could investigate and prosecute both Trump and Flynn for the pardon.  Judge Emmett Sullivan, who has been presiding over the Flynn trial, could also investigate or appoint a special investigator.

Edited November 26, 20205 yr by cmarshall

46 minutes ago, Tug said:

I beg to differ Flynn is a disgruntled vet he was trying to do underhanded illegal deals with the Turks and russans he got caught he plead guilty no more no less beeing a vet doesent give you the rite to break the law and in danger national security trump fears him imo because he has dirt now Flynn can’t hide behind the 5th so he may still be a threat to trump meh who cares anyway 

He lied to FBI, anything else is speculation. he's an American Hero in my eyes.

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

He lied to FBI, anything else is speculation. he's an American Hero in my eyes.

And lied to the vp, which is why trump fired him.

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

And lied to the vp, which is why trump fired him.

I still don't believe that. I think that was the story that came out to protect pence. I think he was honest with pence, and afterwards pence and Flynn were lying about that conversation.

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I still don't believe that. I think that was the story that came out to protect pence. I think he was honest with pence, and afterwards pence and Flynn were lying about that conversation.

Probably so, sounds logical.

31 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Probably so, sounds logical.

This also means pence was lying, but Flynn was thrown under the bus to protect pence 

36 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I still don't believe that. I think that was the story that came out to protect pence. I think he was honest with pence, and afterwards pence and Flynn were lying about that conversation.

Pence was always in the loop as was Trump since he was running the transition.  Flynn took a bullet for Pence and Trump and just got his reward.

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How about Clinton, or is it only Trump can do wrong?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_pardons_in_the_United_States

Clinton's pardons of 140 people on his last day in office, January 20, 2001, including billionaire fugitive Marc Rich and his own brother, Roger Clinton, were heavily criticized.

 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but Clinton didn't pardon people who broke the law undermining our elections and making deals with our enemies, did he?

On the subject of the opportunity to abuse the presidential pardoning power, Trump could take it a step further and issue by proclamation a sweeping pardon of all 4000 members of his administration for any crimes they may have committed.  Pres. Andrew Johnson issued such a proclamation of amnesty for hundreds of thousands of Confederate soldiers after the Civil War and did so with a single signature.

Further proof that Trump is a dictator! Flynn illegally contacted the Russian Ambassador in contrivance of US Federal law banning private and non-government citizens from colluding, conspiring and coordinating with foreign adversaries to undermine US foreign policy. Flynn got caught and he should be in jail like Trump and his nepotist family members who got rich off of the American taxpayers backs!

Numerous posts with trolling, bickering and a few personal comments on forum members have been removed along with replies.

 

He's not a politician,he wasn't elected ! Flynn was a political enemy of the obama administration! Everybody knows that ,especially after obama fired him ! The premier intel agency ,the fbi field agents are indispensable! But the top officials were political tools ,deceptive  and liars (lack candor)!

Horowitz said

"Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz clarified Wednesday that his investigation into the FBI’s FISA abuses “did not reach” the conclusion that the bureau was unaffected by political bias during its 2016 Russia investigation".

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/horowitz-pushes-back-on-claim-that-he-exonerated-fbi-of-political-bias-we-did-not-reach-that-conclusion/

 

Years later it became more transparent of what was going on between the agencies ,Trump would of never fired him if he knew he was being played by the doj and fbi.

Its a shame that Horowitz didn't have all inclusive investigated  and prosecutive  abilities  and was limited in scope  but perhaps Durham who has these super powers will show more deception and hold some of  the mueller team and fbi top officials criminally responsible, finger's crossed.

 

Flynn was a political enemy of the obama administration the intel agencies were used to entrap him according to the declassified memos and notes released ,

 Priestap,"What's our goal? Truth/Admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/flynn-note-fbi-interview/index.html

 

 

"Mr. Barnett told Mr. Jensen that the team had ignored evidence that Mr. Flynn was not compromised by Russia. But that “ground just kept being retreaded” as prosecutors tried to prove that the Trump campaign had colluded with Russia to upend the 2016 election, he said".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/us/politics/flynn-justice-department-fbi.html

the next pardon will be to stormy Daniels