Brexit negotiations restart in person as clock ticks down

[Hi from France]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I agree. M. Barnier has a very difficult job. The EU comprises of 27 states which all have their own interests and priorities; that's why it takes eons for anything to happen. 

Wether there's a deal or not, he did a masterful job considering the situation, it was important that the EU stay united in these difficult negotiations, as the UK strategy was to break EU unity. 
 

 

Sadly the UK chose the most extremist form of Brexit, and negotiations will have to continue for many years.

Most aspects of trade, policy, norms, not to mention whole economic sectors are not covered. 

 

 

Barnier never lost his temper, always polite with an unstable UK, he was able to show who in fact is "taking back control". 

 

Now wether there is a meager deal or no-deal in the next few days, the blueprint for a future deal has been laid down. 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

Wether there's a deal or not, he did a masterful job considering the situation, it was important that the EU stay united in these difficult negotiations, as the UK strategy was to break EU unity. 
 

 

Sadly the UK chose the most extremist form of Brexit, and negotiations will have to continue for many years.

Most aspects of trade, policy, norms, not to mention whole economic sectors are not covered. 

 

 

Barnier never lost his temper, always polite with an unstable UK, he was able to show who in fact is "taking back control". 

 

Now wether there is a meager deal or no-deal in the next few days, the blueprint for a future deal has been laid down. 

 

 

Polite maybe but as sneaky as the rest. Remember the footage of the meeting when using the island of Ireland as a tool for leverage was plotted? 

Edited November 29, 2020 by nauseus

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

I don't think you understand what sovereignty means, my take on it is we should say what happens in our waters and not Mr Barnier. The whole point in leaving the EU was to regain sovereignty and not still be dictated to by the EU, now this might be a difficult concept for some people to come to terms with, but trust me, it is not difficult.

Would you like your next door neighbour to keep walking into your garden and pulling up your prized pansies or ripping up your roses, and to have him say to you 'don't worry, you have survived for the last decades', come on now, you would be livid.

 

Sovereignty ... ????????

[vogie]

1 minute ago, BusyB said:

 

Sovereignty ... ????????

You must have been up all night thinking of that one.????????????

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

The point is if you want absolute soverreignty, don't sign treaties or trade agreements. If they are at all meaningful they will require certain restrictions in exchange for certain privileges.

Unless, of course, it turns out that Brexit really is magic.

Correct. Even in the last week a group of Far East countries announce closer economic ties. Sovereignty as defined by some on here is an illusion. More countries are working together and giving up controls for mutual benefit. Something 52% of the British public got gaslighted into thinking was a bad thing.

 

The Brexit vote was more than 4 years ago, and the UK economy has underperformed its potential, GBP has slumped, and our politics have been toxic. Like Trump’s US it has only driven us apart. And Scottish independence is another example of the same gas lighting that got Brexit over the line. 

[Bruntoid]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

I don't think you understand what sovereignty means, my take on it is we should say what happens in our waters and not Mr Barnier. The whole point in leaving the EU was to regain sovereignty and not still be dictated to by the EU, now this might be a difficult concept for some people to come to terms with, but trust me, it is not difficult.

Would you like your next door neighbour to keep walking into your garden and pulling up your prized pansies or ripping up your roses, and to have him say to you 'don't worry, you have survived for the last decades', come on now, you would be livid.

We got nothing from the EU ? A huge amount of northern regeneration projects EU funded. Superior deal criteria, which you’re about to painfully find out. Or is the OBR on the never ending brexiteer bias list ? 
 

and here’s an odd one we are allowed to fish for scallops all year in french waters but they are not allowed May to October. 
 

Take the blinkers off chap, they’re limiting your view. 

[Bruntoid]

18 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Correct. Even in the last week a group of Far East countries announce closer economic ties. Sovereignty as defined by some on here is an illusion. More countries are working together and giving up controls for mutual benefit. Something 52% of the British public got gaslighted into thinking was a bad thing.

 

The Brexit vote was more than 4 years ago, and the UK economy has underperformed its potential, GBP has slumped, and our politics have been toxic. Like Trump’s US it has only driven us apart. And Scottish independence is another example of the same gas lighting that got Brexit over the line. 

So well put. 
 

They were hoodwinked, the latest poll indicating a hefty dose of regret, so to be fair to some Brexiteers the mind numbing, overwhelming slew of economic evidence that it was a disaster, counteracted by nothing at all, seems to have registered in the more savvy.  But the Alf Garnetts of this world will want it at any cost, deluded that the U.K. can be a world force again, when their very vote ended all hope of that. Anti Brit ? That’ll be a brexiteer. 
 

The genuinely sad thing is it was predominantly of soon to be expired xenophobics, the type that can be found boring the <deleted> out of everyone in your local pub, that caused the mess, completely ripping the carpet out from under the younger generations who will be left to repair the damage.
 

Any brexiteer with grandchildren should be ashamed of themselves - unless of course they’ve been bought up as racists too? 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

We got nothing from the EU ? A huge amount of northern regeneration projects EU funded. Superior deal criteria, which you’re about to painfully find out. Or is the OBR on the never ending brexiteer bias list ? 
 

and here’s an odd one we are allowed to fish for scallops all year in french waters but they are not allowed May to October. 
 

Take the blinkers off chap, they’re limiting your view. 

Does this northern regeneration include your home town of Middlesborough, isn't it good of the EU to give us some of our own money back to do what they say we spend it on.

 

We know that you are not interested what the rest of the country voted for, but it looks like you're going to have to live with it, rejoice your new found freedom and have a nip of monkey shoulder just for old time sake, you know it makes sense.

 

You know sometimes I feel why should I or any other Brexiteer have to justify a democratic decision the country has chosen.

 

[Kwasaki]

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Its pretty obvious. Either the UK (Brexiteers) accept what the EU is offering or its no deal.

Its already been made clear. Now the Brexiteers can huff and puff but its a one sided game because the larger trade entity always dictates what the smaller entity gets.

At this point Brexiteers will do their usual and scream OK NO DEAL THEN but thankfully its actually grown ups who are going to resolve this absolute shambles.

Get used to it guys. You were warned before the referendum took place that this is where we would end up.

You knew what you were voting for and this is it.

 

Your becoming remainers joke everytime I read your posts,  thanks I like a laugh. ????

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

Polite maybe but as sneaky as the rest. Remember the footage of the meeting when using the island of Ireland as a tool for leverage was plotted? 

I'm ready to look at the footage and no-tabloid material about it and discussion this question...

 

Now in his long career Barnier served as a European Commissioner for Regional Policy in the Prodi Commission (1999-2004) and worked years to solve the Irish situation. He was instrumental in bringing peace in Ireland through the Good Friday Agreement

 

I'm not sure you are aware of the irony of the situation : with this five-years experience Barnier knows Ireland infinitely better than the successive british negociators he had to deal with. 

[kingdong]

21 hours ago, vogie said:

No Mr Barnier of course, it has been reported that he is prepared to allow the UK to have 18% more British fish caught in British waters, now doesn't that really show what a kind and considerate man he really is.

Diamond geezer

[puipuitom]

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Its pretty obvious. Either the UK (Brexiteers) accept what the EU is offering or its no deal.

Its already been made clear. Now the Brexiteers can huff and puff but its a one sided game because the larger trade entity always dictates what the smaller entity gets.

At this point Brexiteers will do their usual and scream OK NO DEAL THEN but thankfully its actually grown ups who are going to resolve this absolute shambles.

Get used to it guys. You were warned before the referendum took place that this is where we would end up.

You knew what you were voting for and this is it.

 

Correct. The British now discover it's no longer The British Empire, who negotiate with Zanzibar, Birma, the Boers or even the Catholic Irish, but the tiny British Isles negotiating with the EU BLOC. No gun boats to use.

[puipuitom]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

A deal might happen, or maybe not.

Personally I don't think it will happen. Obviously a deal would make sense. And the UK needs a deal a lot more than the EU.

But one way or the other, life with Brexit will be difficult for the UK. And if Boris should somehow explain why he gave in to the EU he will have a big problem.

I guess for Boris and others it's so much easier to blame the EU. Brexit could be wonderful if only the EU would have been nice to us...

Let's see.

Better for all: to let the British experience how life is in 2021 in the Wild Big World. I only hope their last European occupied territories, Ulster, Scotland, Wales and Gibraltar can escape in time. Maybe via the Gaelic ( Celtic) Confederation resp. special agreement with Spain ? What Boris c.s. can do ? Send in the the Black and Tans  again ?

[puipuitom]

21 hours ago, vogie said:

No Mr Barnier of course, it has been reported that he is prepared to allow the UK to have 18% more British fish caught in British waters, now doesn't that really show what a kind and considerate man he really is.

How much quota the British sold to EU fisherman ? Wales sold 80%, the English over 50 %.

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

I don't think you understand what sovereignty means, my take on it is we should say what happens in our waters and not Mr Barnier. The whole point in leaving the EU was to regain sovereignty and not still be dictated to by the EU, now this might be a difficult concept for some people to come to terms with, but trust me, it is not difficult.

Would you like your next door neighbour to keep walking into your garden and pulling up your prized pansies or ripping up your roses, and to have him say to you 'don't worry, you have survived for the last decades', come on now, you would be livid.

When I sold my neighbour the right to pass over my land, and the roses crop, I have nothing to say.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

Sovereignty and working together are two different things all together and never the twain shall meet.

 

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them.

Do you think you are over egging this chlorinated chicken lark, the US washes the chickens with chlorine, no big deal, it rids the chickens of any harmfull bacteria, just the same as the EU washes certain produce of theirs with chlorine. I haven't seen any Americans strolling around Pattaya with glowing green noses or purple eyes, not many anyway. Why don't you ever bring the way the EU uses chlorine to wash their produce?

We do not and indeed will not sell our souls to the devil just to get a free trade deal with the US, it would be nice, but it is not the be all and end all. At the moment we are running a quite healthy trade surplus with the US, whilst with the EU we are running a deficit. So we will be just fine if everything stays as it is, but to be blackmailed into getting a trade deal is certainly not the way the UK operates.

So well done for getting the president of your dreams, he is only president because he is not Trump and not because he is Irish Joe, and as sure as eggs are eggs, he won't be there for ever.

 "EU uses chlorine to wash their produce"   In which products plase.  

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

Sovereignty and working together are two different things all together and never the twain shall meet.

 

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them.

Do you think you are over egging this chlorinated chicken lark, the US washes the chickens with chlorine, no big deal, it rids the chickens of any harmfull bacteria, just the same as the EU washes certain produce of theirs with chlorine. I haven't seen any Americans strolling around Pattaya with glowing green noses or purple eyes, not many anyway. Why don't you ever bring the way the EU uses chlorine to wash their produce?

We do not and indeed will not sell our souls to the devil just to get a free trade deal with the US, it would be nice, but it is not the be all and end all. At the moment we are running a quite healthy trade surplus with the US, whilst with the EU we are running a deficit. So we will be just fine if everything stays as it is, but to be blackmailed into getting a trade deal is certainly not the way the UK operates.

So well done for getting the president of your dreams, he is only president because he is not Trump and not because he is Irish Joe, and as sure as eggs are eggs, he won't be there for ever.

 "EU uses chlorine to wash their produce"   In which products please.  

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

EU salads are washed in chlorine and of course our very own drinking water has chlorine in it, what you have to realise is that chlorine is a processing aid and not an ingredient. 

No, chlorinated water is ONLY and ONLY allowed in the swimming pool.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

I have news for you, I didn't sign it, other than that you have a complete fixation on the WA, nobody is interested in what you personally think, Boris will do what is best for our nation and not what is best for the EU, sorry you don't like it, not. May started all this nonsense and Boris is still trying to unravel the mess she caused, we will not, repeat, will not trap ourselves into a situation where it would be difficult to negotiate our way out. As I said I am not interested in what you think only what will be benificial to our country and you can go on about for as long as you like as it will not make a blind bit of difference at the end of the day. Here is Andrea Leadsom talking about, I sure you won't take it on board, you never listen to what people tell you.

 

This British attitude is MY reason to kick the British out, and not earlier than under King George to THINK about new negotiations about re-entry in the EU anymore.

 

Till that time: no British allowed to enter the EU, unless with a Schengen visa, an international insurance and driver licence. 

[pacovl46]

23 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Its pretty obvious. Either the UK (Brexiteers) accept what the EU is offering or its no deal.

Its already been made clear. Now the Brexiteers can huff and puff but its a one sided game because the larger trade entity always dictates what the smaller entity gets.

At this point Brexiteers will do their usual and scream OK NO DEAL THEN but thankfully its actually grown ups who are going to resolve this absolute shambles.

Get used to it guys. You were warned before the referendum took place that this is where we would end up.

You knew what you were voting for and this is it.

 

I’m anti Brexit and I still want a no deal! You can‘t just eff off and then expect to be allowed to cherry pick the conditions! Screw that! Let them reap the benefits of their actions! 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

This British attitude is MY reason to kick the British out, and not earlier than under King George to THINK about new negotiations about re-entry in the EU anymore.

 

Till that time: no British allowed to enter the EU, unless with a Schengen visa, an international insurance and driver licence. 

What about if we wore the union flag on our jackets so that you could differentiate us from people you like?

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

This British attitude is MY reason to kick the British out, and not earlier than under King George to THINK about new negotiations about re-entry in the EU anymore.

 

Till that time: no British allowed to enter the EU, unless with a Schengen visa, an international insurance and driver licence. 

Your EU attitude is my reason to turn the Channel tunnel into a super gun blow your Dykes up. ????

 

https://carnegieeurope.eu/2013/04/25/dutch-are-trapped-in-europe-pub-51637

[7by7]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

<snip>

Would you like your next door neighbour to keep walking into your garden and pulling up your prized pansies or ripping up your roses, and to have him say to you 'don't worry, you have survived for the last decades', come on now, you would be livid

 But if I'd sold him the right to my garden back in the 1980s then I'd have no grounds for complaint!

 

As stated many, many times; that is what many UK fleet owners did with their fishing licences; sold them to foreign fleet owners!

 

Also stated many, many times is the fact that not only do many UK fishers fish in what are now EU waters, many of those who fish in UK waters sell and/or land their catches in the EU!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

We got nothing from the EU ? A huge amount of northern regeneration projects EU funded. Superior deal criteria, which you’re about to painfully find out. Or is the OBR on the never ending brexiteer bias list ? 
 

and here’s an odd one we are allowed to fish for scallops all year in french waters but they are not allowed May to October. 
 

Take the blinkers off chap, they’re limiting your view. 

 

Great. Love scallops.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Correct. The British now discover it's no longer The British Empire, who negotiate with Zanzibar, Birma, the Boers or even the Catholic Irish, but the tiny British Isles negotiating with the EU BLOC. No gun boats to use.

Your funny, the UK has already negotiated with many other countries to get same goods they were getting from EU.

That's why behind closed doors the EU wants a deal more so than UK.

UK has boat & planes and can sail and fly around the EU mafia mob.

[Loiner]

58 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

This British attitude is MY reason to kick the British out, and not earlier than under King George to THINK about new negotiations about re-entry in the EU anymore.

 

Till that time: no British allowed to enter the EU, unless with a Schengen visa, an international insurance and driver licence. 

Aren't they just so endearing? I think most of them are pretty much the same too, the stereotypes are all true.

[nauseus]

59 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

This British attitude is MY reason to kick the British out, and not earlier than under King George to THINK about new negotiations about re-entry in the EU anymore.

 

Till that time: no British allowed to enter the EU, unless with a Schengen visa, an international insurance and driver licence. 

 

OK, as long as we can still have a dirty stag weekend in Bratislava.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Your funny, the UK has already negotiated with many other countries to get same goods they were getting from EU.

That's why behind closed doors the EU wants a deal more so than UK.

UK has boat & planes and can sail and fly around the EU mafia mob.

 

So the EU wants a deal more than the UK?

Any evidence to back that up?

[7by7]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

EU salads are washed in chlorine and of course our very own drinking water has chlorine in it, what you have to realise is that chlorine is a processing aid and not an ingredient. 

 When will you realise that there is a big difference between washing salad vegetables and the chlorination of water and chlorination of chicken?

 

What is chlorinated chicken?

Quote

disease-causing bacteria like listeria and salmonella ‘remain active’ after chlorine washing. Chlorine washing just makes it impossible to detect the bacteria in the lab, giving the false impression that the bacteria have been killed when they haven’t.

It goes on to say that these bacteria are more common in the USA than UK and EU due to the lower animal welfare standards there.

Quote

On farms like this, chickens are often fed antibiotics as a preventative measure to stop infection and chlorine-washed after slaughter to kill bacteria.

However, this doesn’t support a good quality of life for chickens and reliance on antibiotics in farming means these lifesaving drugs are less effective for humans.

 

Furthermore, it's not just chlorinated chicken; there are other practices allowed in US food production that currently aren’t permitted in UK food standards.

 

[Susco]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Your funny, the UK has already negotiated with many other countries to get same goods they were getting from EU.

That's why behind closed doors the EU wants a deal more so than UK.

UK has boat & planes and can sail and fly around the EU mafia mob.

 

Can you share with us the results of those negotiations.

 

As far as I know China - US and Canada didn't bear any results, rather the opposite.

 

So who did they had positive negotiations with.

 

Zimbabwe - Pakistan - Iran?