Scotland's Sturgeon hints at legal move if independence vote blocked

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

You missed section 2?

 

 

 

 

No. I read it.

It does not say what Brexitland could do if Scotland said stick your debt.

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

No. I read it.

It does not say what Brexitland could do if Scotland said stick your debt.

 

Oh really? Because you said it didn't deal with the level of debt, which it clearly does.

 

In answer to your more inane suggestion, any second Indy referendum would be advisory only, so if Scotland refused to accept it's share of debt in the divorce agreement, you simply wouldn't be given permission to leave. 

 

So if you said "stick your debt", you would remain in the UK and your little dream of "debt free Independence in the EU" would be over.????

[NanLaew]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Did you read your link?

I suspect not because all it does is outline the mechanism by which debt would be transferred to Scotland after the level of debt had been agreed.

So I am still waiting for you to tell me what Brexitland could do if Scotland said stick your debt.

 

Haud oan therr rookie, I'll play your puerile wee fantasy game. They could stop the noisome, cocksure but ultimately failed Scottish diaspora easily transferring to their domestic flights back to their dank, unlit hovels via London or Manchester airports. The vaunted Scottish passport would be as handy as a TSB bank book.

 

That's if they actually still have any flights to Scotland from anywhere. With a crashed economy where they can't even afford a bus fare (except the pensioners), Scotland's paltry three international airports could easily slip off any airline's radar.

 

Of course Logan Air's routes would be revamped and an international wing established but you would need to overnight in Benbecula.

Edited December 2, 2020 by NanLaew

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Oh really? Because you said it didn't deal with the level of debt, which it clearly does.

 

In answer to your more inane suggestion, any second Indy referendum would be advisory only, so if Scotland refused to accept it's share of debt in the divorce agreement, you simply wouldn't be given permission to leave. 

 

So if you said "stick your debt", you would remain in the UK and your little dream of "debt free Independence in the EU" would be over.????

 

What happened to respecting the result and will of the people?

I didnt ask about the level of debt I asked what Brexitland could do if Scotland simply said stick your debt. If the result came back as a vote to leave the UK and Brexitland refused to ratify it Scotland would declare UDI and then you would be stuck with the debt.

So you have still not answered the question. What could Brexitland do if Scotland said stick your debt?

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

They could stop the noisome, cocksure but ultimately failed Scottish diaspora easily transferring to their domestic flights back to their dank, unlit hovels via London or Manchester airports. The vaunted Scottish passport would be as handy as a TSB bank book.

 

That's if they actually still have any flights to Scotland from anywhere. With a crashed economy where they can't even afford a bus fare (except the pensioners), Scotland's paltry three international airports could easily slip off any airline's radar.

 

Of course Logan Air's routes would be revamped and an international wing established but you would need to overnight in Benbecula.

 

Given Scotland exports electricity to Brexitland it will be you sitting in the dark.

Still you can all pass the time by telling each other "This is just what it was like during the blitz" ????

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Given Scotland exports electricity to Brexitland it will be you sitting in the dark.

Still you can all pass the time by telling each other "This is just what it was like during the blitz" ????

I take it that you are aware without the leaver voters in both Northern Ireland and Scotland the UK would still be in the EU

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

I take it that you are aware without the leaver voters in both Northern Ireland and Scotland the UK would still be in the EU

 

I fail to see the relevance in your reply but yes, I was aware that Brexit needed the votes of the 38% in Scotland who voted for it. 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

I fail to see the relevance in your reply but yes, I was aware that Brexit needed the votes of the 38% in Scotland who voted for it. 

It could be said that  Brexitland  is actually Scotland and Northern Ireland as they made Brexit happen

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

What happened to respecting the result and will of the people?

I didnt ask about the level of debt I asked what Brexitland could do if Scotland simply said stick your debt. If the result came back as a vote to leave the UK and Brexitland refused to ratify it Scotland would declare UDI and then you would be stuck with the debt.

So you have still not answered the question. What could Brexitland do if Scotland said stick your debt?

 

You're in the land of the fairies. A real extremist.

 

Scotland gets Indyref2 (it won't), wins (it won't) and then refuses to accept any debt burden whatsoever upon leaving (it wouldn't) and then declares UDI to leave debt free and be welcomed with open arms with a great deal from the EU ????.

 

Given that you'd still be using the pound and therefore having monetary policy set by The Bank Of England, and that your largest trading partner is the UK, it would be fairly easy to cripple your little economy while letting the International Court of Justice decide how much you owed the UK. Precedents have already been set for the debt burden as I have already shown you in the link. You'd also be a pariah state, a cold Zimbabwe, ridiculed by proper nations. The EU would never accept a country that had acted in such a way.

 

It's really a silly conversation to be honest.  

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

It could be said that  Brexitland  is actually Scotland and Northern Ireland as they made Brexit happen

 

I do not know the figures for NI but in Scotland it was 62% remain and 38% leave. So I dont think it would make sense to call Scotland Brexitland.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

I do not know the figures for NI but in Scotland it was 62% remain and 38% leave. So I dont think it would make sense to call Scotland Brexitland.

When you seperate each country no but as we all know its the majority numbers that count and the 1,018,322 leave votes from Scotland and the 349,442 leave votes from Northern Ireland made the difference between leaving the EU and remaining in the EU

[Rookiescot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

 

You're in the land of the fairies. A real extremist.

 

Scotland gets Indyref2 (it won't), wins (it won't) and then refuses to accept any debt burden whatsoever upon leaving (it wouldn't) and then declares UDI to leave debt free and be welcomed with open arms with a great deal from the EU ????.

 

Given that you'd still be using the pound and therefore having monetary policy set by The Bank Of England, and that your largest trading partner is the UK, it would be fairly easy to cripple your little economy while letting the International Court of Justice decide how much you owed the UK. Precedents have already been set for the debt burden as I have already shown you in the link. You'd also be a pariah state, a cold Zimbabwe, ridiculed by proper nations. The EU would never accept a country that had acted in such a way.

 

It's really a silly conversation to be honest.  

 

 

 

Who says we would carry on using the pound? We could adopt the Euro overnight. The monetary policy run by the Bank of England would damage Brexitland just as much as Scotland. Perhaps more.

The ICJ only passes decisions on problems if both parties have signed up to respect the ICJ's decision. Why would Scotland do that? The ICJ has no method by which to enforce its decisions.

Precedents have been set? How many of the 65 countries accepted a proportion of the UK's debt upon achieving independence? 

And you are now declaring what the EU would do? We left. We get no say in EU policy any more.

 

So ultimately all Brexitland could do is skweem and skweem and skweem until it was sick but would be helpless. 

 

Perhaps its time you Brexiteers stopped belittling and insulting Scotland and its people given you will need some good will north of the border come independence.   

[NanLaew]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Given Scotland exports electricity to Brexitland it will be you sitting in the dark.

Still you can all pass the time by telling each other "This is just what it was like during the blitz" ????

 

Scotland does indeed export electricity to England but so does Ireland, France and Netherlands. Scotland's (still) not all that significant a contributor.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Scotland does indeed export electricity to England but so does Ireland, France and Netherlands. Scotland's (still) not all that significant a contributor.

 

So with your comments you are simultaneously annoying the EU and Scotland?

Both of which you rely on to keep the lights on. 

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Who says we would carry on using the pound? We could adopt the Euro overnight. The monetary policy run by the Bank of England would damage Brexitland just as much as Scotland. Perhaps more.

The ICJ only passes decisions on problems if both parties have signed up to respect the ICJ's decision. Why would Scotland do that? The ICJ has no method by which to enforce its decisions.

Precedents have been set? How many of the 65 countries accepted a proportion of the UK's debt upon achieving independence? 

And you are now declaring what the EU would do? We left. We get no say in EU policy any more.

 

So ultimately all Brexitland could do is skweem and skweem and skweem until it was sick but would be helpless. 

 

Perhaps its time you Brexiteers stopped belittling and insulting Scotland and its people given you will need some good will north of the border come independence.   

 

Adopt the Euro overnight? Sure, just tell everyone to take their pounds to SuperRich. Easy as that.????

 

Why would the EU accept a country that just left another union by UDI and reneged on it's share of debt? A country that refuses to respect International courts? You'd be a Pariah state, an international joke. Not even the EU would stoop so low. 

 

Still if that's what you want for Scotland, go for it. A little country of angry little Scotlanders. ????

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So ultimately all Brexitland could do is skweem and skweem and skweem until it was sick but would be helpless.

 

And then...

 

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Perhaps its time you Brexiteers stopped belittling and insulting Scotland and its people given you will need some good will north of the border come independence.   

 

Your whole, deeply flawed rationale for Scottish Independence is so desperately blinded by this myth that "Brexit changed everything", you've even invented a country that doesn't exist.

 

You are so rabidly anti-Union, you even mistake fellow racists and bigots Scots debating on this forum for English nationalists.

 

Scotland may well earn it's independence some time in your lifetime but it certainly will not be on the back of the myth, deception and lies that the SNP and its current leadership extols.

 

Nobody's belittling or insulting Scotland when they post their stereotypically disparaging comments, they're simply responding to you.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

You're delusional if you think Scotland could walk away from the UK debt free. The only question is how much you'd owe and when you'd repay it.

 

https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/news-and-opinion/scottish-independence-and-uks-debt-burden

 

 

 

Repay it? Clearly you don't understand how national debt works, but its not the same as owing the high Street bank.

 

Until rUK is in a position to repay its share, and judging by the mix of incompetence and corruption that the UK government is showing, they will not be able to repay their trillions and time soon, Scotland will service any debt obligations it accepts, just as any other county, rUK included does. 

[RuamRudy]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Really show me anywhere that said its once a once in a lifetime. . Anyway 43 years is a lifetime for many. So what are you going on about. It was not English nationalists. Many places outside of England wanted a referendum and voted to leave. Either ignorance or arrogance again on your part.

I have no problem with that. the SNP are not all Scotland. What gets me is the reasoning for leaving a 400 old union for one that is not even a tenth of its age.

 

The Scots want independence fine. But you cant have once in a a generation vote every few years as an excuse for another one because you don't like. apiece of policy.

 

If you don't realise Scotland as well as Ireland and northern Ireland have and are been used by the EU as pawns and bargaining chips to firstly keep the UK in the EU, secondly hope it will rejoin on less benefits or thirdly keep the UK from prospering as they will. The foreigners on here don't seem to understand and the Scottish Nationalists are so blinded they can see past their nose.

 

What has Scotland got to offer the EU? Very little. It will be another Albania with a begging bowl. The Scots are in a frenzy in the belief the EU want them. Again what can they contribute other than being a thorn in the UK side.

 

I am not sure if that last paragraph was added with the intention of trolling, but if you genuinely believe this to be the case then it highlights just how anglo-centric the UK is for some when they are completely clueless about the economies of their neighbours. 

 

Your earlier statement, of a '400 year old union' exposes just how important it is to you when you don't even know its age. 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Adopt the Euro overnight? Sure, just tell everyone to take their pounds to SuperRich. Easy as that.????

 

Why would the EU accept a country that just left another union by UDI and reneged on it's share of debt? A country that refuses to respect International courts? You'd be a Pariah state, an international joke. Not even the EU would stoop so low. 

 

Still if that's what you want for Scotland, go for it. A little country of angry little Scotlanders. ????

Brexit taught you nothing did it?

All that appealing to English nationalism and exceptionalism with stuff like hold all the cards, easiest trade deal in history, they need us more than we need them and rubbish about German car manufacturers.

All of that has patently been proven wrong. England no longer dictates terms to anyone. 

Did Ireland accept any debt? Is Ireland a pariah state? Is Ireland an international joke? Is Ireland in the EU?

You see everything through the prism of "But we are England" and you think everyone else has to hold you guys aloft and pander to your wants because its what England wants. 

All you angry Alf Garnet types. Sitting there unable to come to terms with the fact England is no longer a world player.

[Laughing Gravy]

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Your earlier statement, of a '400 year old union' exposes just how important it is to you when you don't even know its age. 

It is a minor typo. I actually work for a living and multi task but I think you get my point even though your trying to pick out very minor details.

 

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not sure if that last paragraph was added with the intention of trolling, but if you genuinely believe this to be the case then it highlights just how anglo-centric the UK is for some when they are completely clueless about the economies of their neighbours. 

I have never trolled or ever intend to so please don't be insulting. You can always counter claim with evidence or even your opinions on what has Scotland independently got to offer.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

And then...

 

 

Your whole, deeply flawed rationale for Scottish Independence is so desperately blinded by this myth that "Brexit changed everything", you've even invented a country that doesn't exist.

 

You are so rabidly anti-Union, you even mistake fellow racists and bigots Scots debating on this forum for English nationalists.

 

Scotland may well earn it's independence some time in your lifetime but it certainly will not be on the back of the myth, deception and lies that the SNP and its current leadership extols.

 

Nobody's belittling or insulting Scotland when they post their stereotypically disparaging comments, they're simply responding to you.

 

No what you dislike is when pro independence supporters show evidence to support it and all you unionists can do is hide behind a throw away line while holding a country in a union against its will.

Its frustrating for you guys when you see the UK breaking up and are unable to avert it because people have stopped listening to you all.

You simply cannot make a post without some barbed comment about Scotland. Living in powerless hovels with rubbish airports and being unable to afford bus fares being your latest one.

Keep it up. You and your fellow English/British nationalists make the job of convincing other Scots to vote for independence so much easier for us.

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It is a minor typo. I actually work for a living and multi task but I think you get my point even though your trying to pick out very minor details.

 

 

It is not a minor detail, but if a typo then fair enough.

 

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I have never trolled or ever intend to so please don't be insulting. You can always counter claim with evidence or even your opinions on what has Scotland independently got to offer.

 

What is insulting about that? Are you just simply copying Johnson's fanboy and crying 'insult' whenever you are challenged? It really is a tiresome tactic.

 

But your original point was completely without substance - just a barb bereft of context, seemingly intended to rile the jocks. Now you expect me to disprove your hollow statement? Maybe you could offer some of that missing substance and I would be happy to enlighten you. 

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

A country that refuses to respect International courts? You'd be a Pariah state, an international joke. Not even the EU would stoop so low. 

 

Just to be clear here - are you still referring to an independent Scotland or you now talking about present day UK?

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

And then...

 

 

Your whole, deeply flawed rationale for Scottish Independence is so desperately blinded by this myth that "Brexit changed everything", you've even invented a country that doesn't exist.

 

You are so rabidly anti-Union, you even mistake fellow racists and bigots Scots debating on this forum for English nationalists.

 

Scotland may well earn it's independence some time in your lifetime but it certainly will not be on the back of the myth, deception and lies that the SNP and its current leadership extols.

 

Nobody's belittling or insulting Scotland when they post their stereotypically disparaging comments, they're simply responding to you.

 

Wow - you must see for miles and miles from atop that moral high ground upon which you stand.

 

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Haud oan therr rookie, I'll play your puerile wee fantasy game. They could stop the noisome, cocksure but ultimately failed Scottish diaspora easily transferring to their domestic flights back to their dank, unlit hovels via London or Manchester airports. The vaunted Scottish passport would be as handy as a TSB bank book.

 

That's if they actually still have any flights to Scotland from anywhere. With a crashed economy where they can't even afford a bus fare (except the pensioners), Scotland's paltry three international airports could easily slip off any airline's radar.

 

Of course Logan Air's routes would be revamped and an international wing established but you would need to overnight in Benbecula.

 

Oops - it's not so high after all, it would seem. 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Brexit taught you nothing did it?

All that appealing to English nationalism and exceptionalism with stuff like hold all the cards, easiest trade deal in history, they need us more than we need them and rubbish about German car manufacturers.

All of that has patently been proven wrong. England no longer dictates terms to anyone. 

Did Ireland accept any debt? Is Ireland a pariah state? Is Ireland an international joke? Is Ireland in the EU?

You see everything through the prism of "But we are England" and you think everyone else has to hold you guys aloft and pander to your wants because its what England wants. 

All you angry Alf Garnet types. Sitting there unable to come to terms with the fact England is no longer a world player.

 

Be careful, the mask is slipping. Your deep dislike of the English is becoming more and more obvious with each passing post.????

[Rookiescot]

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Be careful, the mask is slipping. Your deep dislike of the English is becoming more and more obvious with each passing post.????

Is it really?

This seems to be the goto line by Brexiteers these days when you are struggling.

Either accuse the other guy of being anti Brit, anti English or preferably both.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

No what you dislike is when pro independence supporters show evidence to support it

Evidence? What evidence?

 

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Its frustrating for you guys when you see the UK breaking up

But it's not breaking up.

 

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

You simply cannot make a post without some barbed comment about Scotland.

Goodness, you are really a big softie aren't you? Note I called you a softie, not Scotland.

 

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Living in powerless hovels with rubbish airports and being unable to afford bus fares being your latest one.

Well your future is a bit grim if you let the SNP's grand plan play out. That's your as in the collective Scotland, not just you.

 

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

You and your fellow English/British nationalists make the job of convincing other Scots to vote for independence so much easier for us.

Those are pretty big chips you have there. Easily upset, positing hypotheticals as evidence and arguing endlessly about the meaning of "once in a lifetime" or generation or.., oh go and pick you own epoch.

 

Like my father before me, I am not sold on the SNP, never have been. We thought the lefties that ran their show back when it imploded in the '80's were bad enough. This bunch, despite shooting off in the other direction have learned nothing and if anything, are even worse. That's quite a low bar they've failed to clear.

 

But go ahead with this notion of independence. Go ahead and forego a fair chance of once again having a sizeable and viable representation in Westminster. Go ahead and throw your hand in with the EU and their parliament where at best, all you can ever get is 6 seats.

[CorpusChristie]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Brexit taught you nothing did it?

All that appealing to English nationalism

 

   There has been no English nationalism involved at all .

English nationalism is considered to be racist/xenophobic by the media and society at large .

   You want the same as Brexiteers wanted : Independence 

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   There has been no English nationalism involved at all .

English nationalism is considered to be racist/xenophobic by the media and society at large .

   You want the same as Brexiteers wanted : Independence 

 

Without wishing to veer too far from topic, I think your second sentence, while correct in your estimation, is a great shame and has led to a lot of the issues we have today. There is nothing whatsoever wrong about English pride or English civic nationalism. It may have been hijacked by the worst of our society in the past, but they were very much in the minority then, as they are now.

 

We see far too few St George's Cross flags flying across your country; they are routinely replaced, instead with Union flags, which has led to this muddying of the distinction between England and the UK in many people's minds, and also a dismissal of the contributions of others to the accomplishments of the union. 

 

So I, for one, support wholeheartedly the reclamation of the St George's Cross and a resurgence in English nationalism (of the civic kind).  

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Evidence? What evidence?

 

But it's not breaking up.

 

Goodness, you are really a big softie aren't you? Note I called you a softie, not Scotland.

 

Well your future is a bit grim if you let the SNP's grand plan play out. That's your as in the collective Scotland, not just you.

 

Those are pretty big chips you have there. Easily upset, positing hypotheticals as evidence and arguing endlessly about the meaning of "once in a lifetime" or generation or.., oh go and pick you own epoch.

 

Like my father before me, I am not sold on the SNP, never have been. We thought the lefties that ran their show back when it imploded in the '80's were bad enough. This bunch, despite shooting off in the other direction have learned nothing and if anything, are even worse. That's quite a low bar they've failed to clear.

 

But go ahead with this notion of independence. Go ahead and forego a fair chance of once again having a sizeable and viable representation in Westminster. Go ahead and throw your hand in with the EU and their parliament where at best, all you can ever get is 6 seats.

 

The polls in favour of independence are evidence enough that is what Scotland wants.

The rest of your post is simply baseless assertions. Have you seen the voting intentions for the next Hollyrood elections?

In the last general election the Scottish Conservative party ran on a single issue. No more referendums on independence. They lost half their seats.

So keep your head in the sand and keep claiming Scotland is a nation of racists and bigots. Keep claiming we live in dank hovels. Keep claiming you know more about whats happening in Scotland than the Scots do.

Keep recruiting for us ????