Brexit decision time for Britain after hiccup in talks, EU says

[snoop1130]

Brexit decision time for Britain after hiccup in talks, EU says

By Guy Faulconbridge and Gabriela Baczynska

 

FILE PHOTO: European Council President Charles Michel attends a video conference with representatives of member states ahead of the upcoming EU summit, in Brussels, Belgium December 3, 2020. Francois Walschaerts/Pool via REUTERS/File Photo

 

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union told Britain on Friday that it was time to make a decision on a Brexit trade deal after a last-minute problem in talks prompted London to say chances of a breakthrough were receding.

 

With less than four weeks left until the United Kingdom finally exits the EU's orbit on Dec. 31, both sides are asking each other to compromise on fishing, state aid and how to resolve any future disputes.

 

Ultimately, Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the face of the 2016 Brexit campaign who is now grappling with Europe's highest official COVID-19 death toll, will have to decide whether he and Britain would be better off making compromises or walking away.

 

As talks go down to the wire, a senior British government source said on Thursday that, while a deal was still possible, the prospect of a breakthrough was slipping after the EU pushed for more concessions.

 

European Council President Charles Michel said the next few days would decide matters and the 27 EU leaders holding a virtual summit on Dec. 10-11 would take a position.

 

"The real question is - Which political, economic, social project do they want for their own future?" Michel told a news conference. "And this is a question for the British government and for the British people."

 

One EU official said a deal was expected by the end of the weekend. EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier will stay in London on Friday to continue talks.

 

As investors tried to figure out if the rhetoric was a sign of final haggling or serious trouble, a gauge of how volatile the pound is expected to be over the next week rose to its highest level since March.

 

Britain formally left the EU on Jan. 31 but has been in a transition period since then under which rules on trade, travel and business remain unchanged. From the end of the year, it will be treated by Brussels as a third country.

 

If the two sides fail to reach a deal, the five-year Brexit divorce would end in disorder just as Europe grapples with the vast economic cost of the COVID-19 outbreak.

 

FRENCH VETO?

 

A no-deal exit is the nightmare scenario for businesses and investors who say it would snarl borders, spook financial markets and sow chaos through supply chains that stretch across Europe and beyond.

 

"If one side of the table rejects (a tentative agreement), it's a 'no-deal'," Michel said. "We will need to assess what will be probably on the table.

 

A British source said the EU had disrupted talks by trying to force further concessions at the last minute.

 

"At the 11th hour, the EU is bringing new elements into the negotiation. A breakthrough is still possible in the next few days but that prospect is receding," a government source said.

 

French European Affairs Minister Clement Beaune told Europe 1 Radio there was still a risk that talks would fail but added:

 

"I want to tell our fishermen, our producers, the citizens who are listening that we will not accept a deal with bad terms.

 

"If a good agreement cannot be reached, we will oppose it. Each country has a veto right, so it is possible ... We will do our own evaluation of this draft deal, if there is one."

 

EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier, who is in London, is due to update 27 national envoys to Brussels on Friday by video conference.

 

EU sources said discussions centred around the "level playing field", meaning agreed principles on state aid and minimum labour and environmental standards, as well as the "effective remedies" that each side could take in case of suspected infringements.

 

"We are at a critical phase," Business Secretary Alok Sharma told Sky TV. "It is fair to say that we are in a difficult phase, there are some tricky issues still to be resolved."

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-04

 

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[transam]

No kiddin, just forget about trying to control UK sovereign territory, then perhaps the deal will be done.

So, tell France to back off demanding the use of what is not theirs...... 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, transam said:

No kiddin, just forget about trying to control UK sovereign territory, then perhaps the deal will be done.

So, tell France to back off demanding the use of what is not theirs...... 

 

What UK sovereign territory is France trying to control?

 

Don't say they want sovereignty over our EEZ. That has been proven incorrect many times.

 

 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

 

"The real question is - Which political, economic, social project do they want for their own future?" Michel told a news conference. "And this is a question for the British government and for the British people."

 

We already answered. Are the flights to Brussels full or something ?

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

We already answered. Are the flights to Brussels full or something ?

 

So why have Johnson and his cronies been desperately trying to negotiate a trade deal ever since his coup against May?

 

Why hasn't he simply walked away?

 

Come to that, why did he ask for an extension in October last year when less than a month earlier he'd said he'd rather be dead in a ditch than do so?

 

Because, whilst you appear not to, they all live in the real world and know that whilst the EU want a deal, we need one.

[transam]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

What UK sovereign territory is France trying to control?

 

Don't say they want sovereignty over our EEZ. That has been proven incorrect many times.

 

 

That doesn't deserve an answer, as you know exactly what I mean, but an expected reply from you........????

 

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

That doesn't deserve an answer, as you know exactly what I mean, but an expected reply from you........????

 

 

It would appear you do not understand what sovereignty means.

Its just a buzzword Brexiteers throw around to justify their vote but they never sit down and actually think about it.

If you own a field and give someone else permission to use it YOU still own the field.

[transam]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

 

It would appear you do not understand what sovereignty means.

Its just a buzzword Brexiteers throw around to justify their vote but they never sit down and actually think about it.

If you own a field and give someone else permission to use it YOU still own the field.

Says the bloke who doesn't understand what a democratic winning vote means...... ????

[Rookiescot]

Just now, transam said:

Says the bloke who doesn't understand what a democratic winning vote means...... ????

Usual deflection to a straw man argument. 

[transam]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Usual deflection to a straw man argument. 

Deflexion, you deflect every day over your stance on what a democratic vote is, amazing....

[Geordieabroad]

I see the remainers are still around, although quieter than usual

[Hi from France]

Although a no deal is costly, it's a viable alternative : it seems this deal is too much in favor of the UK. 

 

With the coronavirus budget, a few billions have been set aside, so the EU can easily wait while Boris takes his losses and explain Brexiteers that he is "holding all the cards".

 

Biden said he will not initiate any deal with the UK in the short term and certainly not when the UK breaks the GFA.  

 

So in a few months, we can reboot EU/UK negotiations on a more balanced basis, with a tougher chief negotiator than Barnier, more realistic UK demands and a closer association instead of being antagonistic. 

 

I think the UK would get more benefits if it cooperates more and get a better deal for everyone 

[Bruntoid]

Is another Brexit thread really necessary ? Can’t this be added to the other few hundred ? 
 

Because now there will be a regurgitation of Brexiteers trying to economically justify their vote but no ones managed it yet, and remainers fruitlessly trying to educate them ad finitum! 
 

 

[Bruntoid]

3 hours ago, Geordieabroad said:

I see the remainers are still around, although quieter than usual

and yet heavily outnumber leavers on here - bizarre comment. 

[transam]

Just now, Bruntoid said:

Is another Brexit thread really necessary ? Can’t this be added to the other few hundred ? 
 

Because now there will be a regurgitation of Brexiteers trying to economically justify their vote but no ones managed it yet, and remainers fruitlessly trying to educate them ad finitum! 
 

 

For me Brexit has nothing to do with economics, it is to get away from the obvious U.S. of G, which will evolve.

Who's pulling the EU strings now, yep, you guessed it. 

[Pilotman]

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

So why have Johnson and his cronies been desperately trying to negotiate a trade deal ever since his coup against May?

 

Why hasn't he simply walked away?

 

Come to that, why did he ask for an extension in October last year when less than a month earlier he'd said he'd rather be dead in a ditch than do so?

 

Because, whilst you appear not to, they all live in the real world and know that whilst the EU want a deal, we need one.

I don't think he has been 'desperately' doing anything much about a deal.  He's clearly not really that fussed about a deal so its up to the EU.  

[Thingamabob]

5 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

Is another Brexit thread really necessary ? Can’t this be added to the other few hundred ? 
 

Because now there will be a regurgitation of Brexiteers trying to economically justify their vote but no ones managed it yet, and remainers fruitlessly trying to educate them ad finitum! 
 

 

It's not about economics. Hasn't that sunk in yet ?

[transam]

3 hours ago, Geordieabroad said:

I see the remainers are still around, although quieter than usual

The majority finally came to the conclusion that Brexit has actually happened and dispersed....????

[Hi from France]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

For me Brexit has nothing to do with economics,

Sure !

 

In the days of the referendum, 4 years away, Brexit had everything to do with a more powerful and prosperous UK : "more money to the NHS", "taking back control"

 

.. now Brexiteers politicians took power but realized its an economic failure its 

"you know what? We're going to loose billions and drown in red tape, but it doesn't matter we're poorer" and "fack business, we will be free and freedom is priceless".

 

 

I'm not sure you realize that not only the UK becomes poorer, but as current negociations show, the country has lost sovereignty, and is likely to end up as separate, countries. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2018/mar/28/11-brexit-promises-leavers-quietly-dropped

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Sure !

 

In the days of the referendum, 4 years away, Brexit had everything to do with a more powerful and prosperous UK : "more money to the NHS", "taking back control"

 

.. now Brexiteers politicians took power but realized its an economic failure its 

"you know what? We're going to loose billions and drown in red tape, but it doesn't matter we're poorer" and "fack business, we will be free and freedom is priceless".

 

 

I'm not sure you realize that not only the UK becomes poorer, but as current negociations show, the country has lost sovereignty, and is likely to end up as separate, countries. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2018/mar/28/11-brexit-promises-leavers-quietly-dropped

More anti-British tosh assumptions....

Please, please, not The Guardian again.....????

[Hi from France]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

More anti-British tosh assumptions....

assumptions backed by hard data, do you have any?

[7by7]

9 hours ago, transam said:

That doesn't deserve an answer, as you know exactly what I mean, but an expected reply from you........????

 

 

 

A reply which proves you know that France is not trying to control any UK sovereign territory; but wont admit that you were wrong when you posted that they were!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

<snip>

I think the UK would get more benefits if it cooperates more and get a better deal for everyone

 I think even Johnson knows that.

 

But the rabid anti EU ERG don't care about what's best for the UK; and they are on his back. He needs them to maintain his majority and hang onto his job.

[Sujo]

56 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I don't think he has been 'desperately' doing anything much about a deal.  He's clearly not really that fussed about a deal so its up to the EU.  

Why would the eu care. Uk is out, how badly they are out is up to the uk. They cant be half in or out.

 

The eu have nothing to lose. The uk does.

[7by7]

56 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I don't think he has been 'desperately' doing anything much about a deal.  He's clearly not really that fussed about a deal so its up to the EU.  

 It's not the EU who asked for an extension in October 2019 after promising a month previously that he would rather be dead in a ditch than do so!

 

We can walk away any time we want; so can the EU. But whilst the EU want a deal, we need one.

 

 

[Pilotman]

It may have escaped most peoples notice, but most countries of the world,  191 at the last count, are not in the EU.  Only 27 are.  Its not the end of the world to be in a much bigger club, with many more opportunities that fact represents, than to be in a small, undemocratic, restrictive, anti trade club of 27,  with whom you have little in common, however closer to the UK they may be. By all means have a reciprocal agreement for use of each others club bar and  pool facilities, but don't join. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Pilotman

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 It's not the EU who asked for an extension in October 2019 after promising a month previously that he would rather be dead in a ditch than do so!

 

We can walk away any time we want; so can the EU. But whilst the EU want a deal, we need one.

 

 

Have you forgotten that Boris was forced by law to seek an extension

The Benn Act – or the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 – is an Act of Parliament that provided a statutory obligation for the government to prevent a no deal Brexit on 31 October 2019 by requiring in the Prime Minister to ask for an extension of Article 50. The only way this could be avoided was the House of Commons approving a motion on a withdrawal agreement agreed with the EU by 19 October 2019.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-facts/what-was-the-benn-act/

[puipuitom]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:33 AM, transam said:

No kiddin, just forget about trying to control UK sovereign territory, then perhaps the deal will be done.

So, tell France to back off demanding the use of what is not theirs...... 

When you want to do business in another country (or bloc), you have to do that on the rules of that country. When there is a dispute, you have to go to the courts of that country.

 

So, EU, stop with accepting British certificates, as are not in accordance with EU (lood) laws.

 

Pity... for "bio", the EU will accept British Bio-certificates till 31 Dec 2021. *( very limited imports from the UK into the EU, so nobody will notice it) 

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Geordieabroad said:

I see the remainers are still around, although quieter than usual

We just wait a two-three months, when disaster really hits the Tiny Islands.

[Bruntoid]

6 hours ago, transam said:

Deflexion, you deflect every day over your stance on what a democratic vote is, amazing....

Yet again - unintelligible.