2 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

There’s Boris first capitulation - others to follow .... ???? 

 

BORIS was always going to blink first !! 

Remain to be seen what the E.U. agreed in lieu of.

I don't believe in capitulation, nor in a absolute winner or looser,  in negotiations on that level.

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

Remain to be seen what the E.U. agreed in lieu of.

I don't believe in capitulation, nor in a absolute winner or looser,  in negotiations on that level.

Would Boris be smart enough to "concede" to not violating an international treaty in return for European concessions?

 

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Would Boris be smart enough to "concede" to not violating an international treaty in return for European concessions?

 

"USA's J.Biden effect" !....as things stand  advised must keep USA Friendship open ...

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Would Boris be smart enough to "concede" to not violating an international treaty in return for European concessions?

 

No evidence that the EU has conceded anything.

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 You really don't have a clue!

Really, well I can spot an anti-British bloke a mile off....????

11 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Every time a debate has a chance of being a thought provoking exercise you chip in ! It’s toe curling stuff ! 

Thank you........

On 12/7/2020 at 12:56 PM, vogie said:

A very well written piece Proboscis unfortunately I think you have missed the point the poster you are replying to was making and indeed have missed out the most salient point you could have mentioned. I believe when the poster said "bitterness" he was not referring to the people of Paris or the citizens of Colongne, he probably was referring to the constant snide remarks from the Euro posters on this very site, the majority, but not all cannot go a post without a put down to the UK, especially England and there is no real need for it, it is not meant in fun, it is simply being damn right rude.

 

You see, the bitterness is all a fantasy of the extreme Brexiteers in the UK. They interpret the EU and all its members as always having been against the UK. And I suppose if anyone only ever read the Murdoch press, they would think that too. In the midst of all the hatred that has been fanned up by the Murdoch media, you fail to see the French people who are fans of Marks and Spenser, the Germans who love old British cars, the Belgians who like their fish done the English style - not to mention the number of people who were able to quote Shakespeare to me in the various countries in Europe whereas that hardly happens in the UK unless you happen to be in Oxford or some place like that.

 

The Brexiteers are certainly not bitter, BTW what is an "extreme" Brexiteer, you are either a Brexiteer or not, no such thing as extreme, which brings me to the most salient point in what you failed to mention, slowly and surely the EU is turning into a one nation federal state who gives it's orders to the rest of europe, we want no part of being run by these beaurocrats in Brussels, we want to make our own decisions, does that never come into a Euros mind instead of all this 'the UK wants to leave because we are all racists'. And does it make someone stupid because they don't want to quote Shakespear, personally I have better things to with my life, but if it makes the Euros any happier I wouldn't be surprised if Boris could quote the complete works of Shakespear in English, French and even Latin.

 

 

I can tell you that there are some people who are very bitter about what has happened, about the whole Brexit thing who live in Europe. They are the Brits who live very happily in Spain and whose lives will change rather drastically with Brexit, even if there is a deal, even if there is the most perfect deal possible. Now they will be considered a "third country" and will have to face all sorts of bureaucracy with respect to permission to say, work and travel with their pets than before. You should talk to those retirees, some of whom were in favor of the Brexit as it was sold to them at the time but are hopping mad now! 

 

Brexit has never been about the Brits living in Torremolinos or the Dordogne or even taking our dogs to Dieppe, it is about doing what we think is right for our country and we can get on as friends after our divorce, all the better, if not, c'est la vie.

 

Bravo for your erudition in repeating some of the heart-felt views of at least Brexiteers. Although I find that like most political movements, the reasons for holding the views are quite broad and varied, from "I can't stand the French" to "Lets make our own laws." From idealism of a Burkean kind to a crude nationalism. There is even a selection of left wing Brexit views too - the neo-marxist one is that the EU is an extension of finance-capitalism in its most mature form designed to solidify the position of burgeois capitalism throughout Europe and against the interests of the working classes. 

 

As regards your point that there are no extreme Brexiteers, I beg to differ. Before the referendum, there was a view of Brexit put to the voters that "we want to be out of Brussels" and so on but don't worry we will still have the Single Market or the Customs Union. Rather surprisingly for a couple of left wing London journalists, they predicted that this "soft Brexit" would disappear with the culling of the parliamentary Conservative party and the solidifying of views generally. But there is nothing incoherent with a Norway solution to Brexit which is a lot less extreme than the hard no-deal Brexit that we appear to be heading for now.