UK, EU leaders to meet face-to-face to try to seal Brexit trade deal

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

That is because you are talking garbage.

The UK government tried to first join the EC in 1961, then again in 1967, and it was a decision taken by the Heath government in 1972 that succeeded. The public had nothing to do with it, so how on earth were they cheated into joining the EC. The future path of the EC was documented in Dec 69 by the heads of state so all those that voted in 1972 were well aware of where it was going.

 

In 1975 the public were asked if they wished to remain in the EEC, and the result was far from borderline. Every MP in the land had the opportunity to say how the EC intended to progress in the future. The public may not have been as well informed as they should have been but they certainly weren't bombarded with fake news. Bear in mind, in 1975 there wasn't the same facilities available to distribute and distort information as was used in 2016.

You are quite entitled to think it was the wrong decision, just as I am entitled to think that leaving the EU was the wrong decision.

 

 

Now that is garbage.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

I doubt that there are many here who can remember that clearly what was said during that campaign. 

 

Anyway, isn't it a matter of opinion? This article suggests that Heath didn't lie:

http://infacts.org/mythbusts/voters-werent-conned-1975-referendum/

 

 

I can.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

I can.

Congratulations.

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is because you are talking garbage.

The UK government tried to first join the EC in 1961, then again in 1967, and it was a decision taken by the Heath government in 1972 that succeeded. The public had nothing to do with it, so how on earth were they cheated into joining the EC. The future path of the EC was documented in Dec 69 by the heads of state so all those that voted in 1972 were well aware of where it was going.

 

In 1975 the public were asked if they wished to remain in the EEC, and the result was far from borderline. Every MP in the land had the opportunity to say how the EC intended to progress in the future. The public may not have been as well informed as they should have been but they certainly weren't bombarded with fake news. Bear in mind, in 1975 there wasn't the same facilities available to distribute and distort information as was used in 2016.

You are quite entitled to think it was the wrong decision, just as I am entitled to think that leaving the EU was the wrong decision.

 

 

 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/nelson-mccausland/the-vote-to-join-europe-in-1975-was-based-on-a-lie-but-at-last-were-getting-our-sovereignty-back-36219265.html

 

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/fishing-the-great-betrayal/

 

Maybe you should watch this again.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZrzwm6CJs 

 

I will give that you are the only one who tried to argue it with one piece of evidence, albeit shaky at that. In fact its the only piece I could find to the hundreds that prove he did lie. Watch the debate with him and Michael Foot it is priceless. Sadly YouTube have not embedded it.

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Laughing Gravy

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Hello...he was a Tory:

I did not make that statement, respond to the correct post.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I will give that you are the only one who tried to argue it with one piece of evidence, albeit shaky at that.

Are you really trying to say it was "shaky evidence" that the HoC voted by 301 - 284 to join the EC and the matter was not properly discussed.

 

The Act started life as the European Communities Bill, which was introduced into the House of Commons in 1972. Its purpose was to secure parliamentary approval for the Treaty of Accession signed by Edward Heath, then prime minister, in Brussels on 22 January 1972, making the UK part of the European Economic Community.

Following 300 hours of parliamentary debate, the short 12-clause bill became law as the European Communities Act 1972. As a consequence, Britain became a member of the European Economic Community (EEC) from 1 January 1973. The EEC became the European Union (EU) following the Maastricht Treaty of 1992.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/european-communities-act-1972

 

At the time UK joined the EC, I was on a QRA squadron in Germany defending the realm during the cold war, you probably think that was a bit "shaky" as well. Fortunately I returned before the IRA started shaking BFG personnel.

The only success from brexit will be turning the clock back.

[Laughing Gravy]

41 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Are you really trying to say it was "shaky evidence" that the HoC voted by 301 - 284 to join the EC and the matter was not properly discussed.

 

The Act started life as the European Communities Bill, which was introduced into the House of Commons in 1972. Its purpose was to secure parliamentary approval for the Treaty of Accession signed by Edward Heath, then prime minister, in Brussels on 22 January 1972, making the UK part of the European Economic Community.

Following 300 hours of parliamentary debate, the short 12-clause bill became law as the European Communities Act 1972. As a consequence, Britain became a member of the European Economic Community (EEC) from 1 January 1973. The EEC became the European Union (EU) following the Maastricht Treaty of 1992.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/european-communities-act-1972

 

At the time UK joined the EC, I was on a QRA squadron in Germany defending the realm during the cold war, you probably think that was a bit "shaky" as well. Fortunately I returned before the IRA started shaking BFG personnel.

The only success from brexit will be turning the clock back.

I am saying that was presented was not factual and there was an agenda that was not presented. Did you watch the video???

 

We can agree we see things differently. although I am younger than you, I also did Germany in the cold war era. Munster and Berlin. A stint on Spandau guarding RH for a week.

 

I have more faith in the UK than you do but if I remember you classed yourself as Scottish, then EU and then British unless I am mistaken. I have never classed myself as EU for anything. Maybe that's the difference.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Laughing Gravy

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I am saying that was presented was not factual and there was an agenda that was not presented. Did you watch the video???

 

We can agree we see things differently. although I am younger than you, I also did Germany in the cold war era. Munster and Berlin. A stint on Spandau guarding RH for a week.

 

I have more faith in the UK than you do but if I remember you classed yourself as Scottish, then EU and then British unless I am mistaken. I have never classed myself as EU for anything. Maybe that's the difference.

 

The matter was debated for 300 hours in parliament, you would have to point out what was not factual. I don't agree with Foot's interpretation, clubs have rules and if you want to be a member then the rules apply. The UK government agreed 3 times to join the club, admittedly the long term plan was done after the first 2 attempts but certainly before the third. Remind me, how many times was a state of emergency declared in the couple of years prior to joining the EC, the sick man of Europe, and the public were looking for a cure which proved very successful. There was no lies, only distorted interpretations.

The UK is currently led by a rule abuser and claiming it doesn't see why they should have to follow any rules, that will be the undoing, as said the clock will go back.

 

I am Scottish by birth, the authorities classed me as British, not much choice in the matter. I was more than happy to be a citizen of the EU, obviously you weren't. Bit hypocritical to try and deny the right of Scottish citizenship and once again that of the EU

[Laughing Gravy]

24 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The matter was debated for 300 hours in parliament, you would have to point out what was not factual. I don't agree with Foot's interpretation, clubs have rules and if you want to be a member then the rules apply. The UK government agreed 3 times to join the club, admittedly the long term plan was done after the first 2 attempts but certainly before the third. Remind me, how many times was a state of emergency declared in the couple of years prior to joining the EC, the sick man of Europe, and the public were looking for a cure which proved very successful. There was no lies, only distorted interpretations.

The UK is currently led by a rule abuser and claiming it doesn't see why they should have to follow any rules, that will be the undoing, as said the clock will go back.

 

I am Scottish by birth, the authorities classed me as British, not much choice in the matter. I was more than happy to be a citizen of the EU, obviously you weren't. Bit hypocritical to try and deny the right of Scottish citizenship and once again that of the EU

I don't see Scottish passports or EU ones either. I see countries with the EU on it.

 

I was also born British and could easily have an Irish one through birthright and also served in an Irish regiment. I chose not too.

 

As for the sick man of Europe when there were only 5 other countries in the EU and political stability and strikes were happening. The EEC then was hardly the cure.

 

BJ doesn't have to follow the rules and he is saying so, rightly in my opinion. It is the EU and its rules that have stifled the UK in so many ways. I have debated this before so don't ask me again. You could look through previous posts.

 

We differ that is for sure. I would say I find that it is a rarity that an ex servicemen would should the EU over your own.

 

As for the clock going back. That is absurd. Strikes and riots on the streets. Hardly.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Laughing Gravy