UK, EU leaders to meet face-to-face to try to seal Brexit trade deal

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

@nauseus @billd766 @placeholder @JonnyF @transam

 

as I understand what you say,

• you fully admit Brexit is a disaster for the British economy british jobs now,
• you acknowledge that all forecasts show that when it become a reality by the end of this months brexit will be even worse in the coming years 

 

.. but you do not really care. 

 

 

I understand, that as pensioners you get your pension anyway and your main concern here is the exchange rate £ to baths.

 

But you must have still care for young brits, who are now starting their professional lives, getting married, having kids no ?

 

What is you message to them? "the most important years of your life are wasted, but even if your life got worse for the last four years and its going to be much worse indeed now, I promise it'll probably get better 8-10 years from now?"

or more like

"I myself am responsible for nothing, it's the nasty EU?"

 

  

 

If you want to use my name you must understand that you should quote me accurately, be factual,  and not make things up.

[2530Ubon]

49 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

@nauseus @billd766 @placeholder @JonnyF @transam

 

as I understand what you say,

• you fully admit Brexit is a disaster for the British economy british jobs now,
• you acknowledge that all forecasts show that when it become a reality by the end of this months brexit will be even worse in the coming years 

 

.. but you do not really care. 

 

 

I understand, that as pensioners you get your pension anyway and your main concern here is the exchange rate £ to baths.

 

But you must have still care for young brits, who are now starting their professional lives, getting married, having kids no ?

 

What is you message to them? "the most important years of your life are wasted, but even if your life got worse for the last four years and its going to be much worse indeed now, I promise it'll probably get better 8-10 years from now?"

or more like

"I myself am responsible for nothing, it's the nasty EU?"

 

  

Apparently they don't care about anything other than being right. Even when they are wrong.

 

Then again, who would be surprised? Whilst the vast majority of older (pension age) people did indeed vote to 'return sovereignty to the realm', the younger generation overwhelmingly rejected the notion.

 

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/LR-by-demographics-1024x960.jpg

 

So thank you very much brexiteer pensioners. It seems you are much more gullible than your younger counterparts who didn't fall for the BS coming out of Nigel & BoJo. But as mentioned above, you have made their lives incredibly worse off. No more visa free travel, no more free healthcare across the EU when on holiday, no more working abroad easily, no more trading with the single largest trading bloc in the world - right on our doorstep and connected to us by rail. The list goes on and on and on. We have lost so much more than we will ever gain as a small island nation.

 

I say again, whereas once we were a major player and a star on the international stage, now we are an isolationist nation who betrays their word and signed agreements. Sickening. As a man in my mid thirties, I am incredibly sad at the sorry state of affairs the UK is in. I am extremely disappointed in our elected representatives and disgusted at the way the leave party lied to get the result they wanted. What was once a great nation without a constitution, because the rule of law was sufficient enough, has evaporated. We renege, lie and twist laws to our advantage now.

 

As pensioners living in Thailand, you should be incensed at the government freezing your pensions and having the lowest pension out of all the wealthy EU states. EU pension mandates that increase pension pots for governments in the EU are not available to us (they started in 2017 - after we left) and never will be. It is striking how much less that is than other countries: the EU average is 70.5% meaning that UK pensions receive more than two times less than comparable countries

 

Finally, it really looks like no deal is going to be the case. The government simply refuses to budge on the level playing field and fishing.

A senior UK government source said: "Talks are in the same position now as they were on Friday. We have made no tangible progress. It's clear this must now continue politically."

They added that the government did not "consider this process to be closed" but "things are looking very tricky and there's every chance we are not going to get there".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55224096

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

if I was in charge the ones responsible for signing up to get UK into the EU would be hung,  drawn and quartered .

Fair enough.

Pretty sure there must be some who which to hung, drawn, quartered the people who are responsible to get the U.K. out of the E.U..

Everything is relative.

 

 

[soalbundy]

Just now, transam said:

Nor do I, but my country is still my country. ????

That is your problem. People tend to speak of countries as if they were individuals, the UK decided this, France did that, Germany has an efficient industrial base etc. when in fact they are more like a large company with a huge number of employees.

 

There is a company structure with CEO's in charge, corporate identity, the employee has his designated place and is expected to try and achieve the company goals within the framework of hierarchy, it is artificial and has only economic meaning. When the employee goes home the family structure is important, not the company goals, the family structure ie individualism and personal goals are organic and therefore longer lasting and more valid. In, for eg, WW1 a French baker had no personal desire to kill a German baker and vice versa but the CEO's have economic and physical powers far greater than your private employee goals and so the sheep walk almost voluntarily to the slaughter house to achieve the company goals. The CEO can of course go to far and out comes the guillotine, the employees strike.

 

The system though is so arranged that nothing much changes, a new CEO, new goals, a new corporate identity and the sheep are happy again.

 

I am like a shy pony, I won't let myself be ridden, I buck, shake and pull, often to my own disadvantage but here I am, no allegiance, no motherland, no Vaterland but I have a private love of different places with memories and goals that were/are mine, Helsinki where I had an intense love affair, Munich and Fuestenfeldbruck where I spent the best years of my life, Friborg in Switzerland where I had some wonderful companions and smoked my first joint etc. Nowhere do I have a love of a state as such, nor would I sacrifice myself for an ideal, smoke and mirrors.

[soalbundy]

43 minutes ago, transam said:

I am related to Edward III........????

He had a French mother, you could possibly get yourself a French passport as long as they have forgotten about the 100 years war, could come in useful when Brexit goes tits up.

[soalbundy]

52 minutes ago, transam said:

I am related to Edward III........????

double post

Edited December 8, 2020 by soalbundy

[Surelynot]

16 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

if I was in charge the ones responsible for signing up to get UK into the EU would be hung,  drawn and quartered .

Fair enough.

Pretty sure there must be some who which to hung, drawn, quartered the people who are responsible to get the U.K. out of the E.U..

Everything is relative.

Hanged

[Hi from France]

38 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you want to use my name you must understand that you should quote me accurately, be factual,  and not make things up.

well this is a debate, you can just tell us exactly what you mean on this issue of brexiteer retirees who don't care because they made their career during 47 years of prosperous "European Union slavery" while imposing hardships now on the young generation in the name of "let's ditch the economy, we will have freedom".

 

Anyway we are all ears

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

well this is a debate, you can just tell us exactly what you mean on this issue of brexiteer retirees who don't care because they made their career during 47 years of prosperous "European Union slavery" while imposing hardships now on the young generation in the name of "let's ditch the economy, we will have freedom".

 

Anyway we are all ears

As a pensioner and an ardent remainer I am gutted for all my kids.....heart broken.

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

You were the one that brought the Three Muskiteers into it.

and when did I do/say something like that, it appears you don't know the meaning of the terms used, did you try google, that's a good help for the slow ones

Edited December 8, 2020 by Mavideol

[Susco]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Germanic ancestry yes, genetic testing in the UK found that the English have more genetic similarity with the Germans than they do with the Welsh or the Scots but I doubt most of us have royal connections.

 

What would you expect if you have a royal family, which actually is German.

 

I remember Prince Harry showed his German ancestry a couple of years ago, in a now infamous news story

 

https://www.history.co.uk/shows/al-murray-why-does-everyone-hate-the-english/articles/the-german-kings-and-queens-of-england

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

 

It also work for the current negotiations: each time the EU gives 1M the UK has to reciprocate with more or less the same 1M

....but it represents 6 times that amount as a % of the UK Gross domestic product (GDP).

 

 

 

 

 

Another (wonderful) thing about the UE is we have spent years developing mutually beneficial synergies for our members.

 

For example, in exchange for some cod fishing quotas, Barnier is able to trade access to our European energy market 

 

this is of considerable value as it lowers the energy bill of the UK (and The fishing industry employs 12,000 people, while the energy sector supports 768,000 jobs), while this big gift costs the EU ... nothing.

 

 

 

 

It helps understand why Boris is jumping on the plane to Brussels now, it's christmas soon and a visit to Santa is in order

So your just another French person like Macron who hates the the UK so why did EU want us to stay Mr French Guru.

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

well this is a debate, you can just tell us exactly what you mean on this issue of brexiteer retirees who don't care because they made their career during 47 years of prosperous "European Union slavery" while imposing hardships now on the young generation in the name of "let's ditch the economy, we will have freedom".

 

Anyway we are all ears

 

It was you who included my name with your comment of "retirees who don't care". Neither applies to me so I am asking you to stop making things up.

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

As a pensioner and an ardent remainer I am gutted for all my kids.....heart broken.

Another one so sad. ????

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

What would you expect if you have a royal family, which actually is German.

 

I remember Prince Harry showed his German ancestry a couple of years ago, in a now infamous news story

 

https://www.history.co.uk/shows/al-murray-why-does-everyone-hate-the-english/articles/the-german-kings-and-queens-of-england

I see nothing infamous in this, what is the royal family to me, nothing, as far as I'm concerned they could put a pair of Barbary apes on the throne. Why call the queen German, she is British, she was born and raised in England, her ancestors have nothing to do with the matter, go far enough back and you may find your family came from Saxony would that make you German? The English are a mongrel race anyway and eventually we all came from Africa.

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Hanged

Yeah you along with them for the sake of my kids not yours who are obviously are uneducated if they agree with you.

[soalbundy]

43 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Fair enough.

Pretty sure there must be some who which to hung, drawn, quartered the people who are responsible to get the U.K. out of the E.U..

Everything is relative.

 

 

hasta la vista, we will be back (without the pound though, new membership new rules, it's the Euro or nothing)

[Kwasaki]

28 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Hanged

Grammar police are still here same as remainers so sad.

[soalbundy]

13 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Another one so sad. ????

Was that a Trump quote?

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Grammar police are still here same as remainers so sad.

Well as a non native English speaker, I am happy to learn.

[Susco]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I see nothing infamous in this,

 

The infamous news story was not in the article i linked to.

 

[soalbundy]

Just now, Susco said:

 

The infamous news story was not in the article i linked to.

 

Just a spoilt little brat with too much money. In Germany he could be arrested for using that symbol and rightly so.

[Hi from France]

36 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

So your just another French person like Macron who hates the the UK

Macron probably does not appreciate Boris, and neither do I (see below)

 

Now, arguably, I care for the young brits and for the UK more than you do.

 

 

 

Quote

so why did EU want us to stay Mr French Guru.

While I did not personally want the UK to remain a full EU member, I think the UK could be better off leading the EFTA instead of this most disastrous form of Brexit.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Hi from France

[Surelynot]

27 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah you along with them for the sake of my kids not yours who are obviously are uneducated if they agree with you.

You are a weird person.

 

I have three degrees and all my children have either an MA or an MSc.....all are, thankfully, leaving the UK over the next 12 months for careers in Europe and the USA.

[soalbundy]

Just now, Surelynot said:

You are a weird person.

 

I have three degrees and all my children have either an MA or an MSc.....all are, thankfully, leaving the UK over the next 12 months for careers in Europe and the USA.

Therein lies the danger for the UK,why should anybody with a saleable ability stay, the EU firms generally offer more money, better pensions and better housing standards, your standard of living goes up with all the different activities available and no yobbo's

[Hi from France]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Therein lies the danger for the UK,why should anybody with a saleable ability stay, the EU firms generally offer more money, better pensions and better housing standards, your standard of living goes up with all the different activities available and no yobbo's

another danger is before the studies : the UK used to be an attractive destination for higher education, research and jobs.

 

• higher education : even the first university years in an average university cost 9000£, the Erasmus exchange scheme does not compensate all of this huge costs and it is not even sure the UK will be in Erasmus in a few weeks. Studies at a university in France is 450€, in Germany it's free. If you want to study in English northern Europe is very attractive too.
• research and jobs : the hostile environnement policy is very very dissuasive 

Quote

The refusal to grant settlement is only one example of the hostile environment that academics are facing. We also face mounting costs associated with migration, which many universities do not reimburse. In the past 10 years, the costs of applying for a tier 2 visa have almost quadrupled to a minimum of £2,200 per applicant. Some of that is accounted for by the introduction of an annual surcharge for migrants to use the NHS, which the Conservatives plan to further increase to £625 per year. This is an unfair charge: migrant workers, many of whom work for the NHS themselves, pay taxes and national insurance, and are therefore effectively paying twice towards the NHS.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Hi from France

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

another danger is before the studies : the UK used to be an attractive destination for higher education, research and jobs.

 

• higher education : even the first university years in an average university cost 9000£, the Erasmus exchange scheme does not compensate all of this huge costs and it is not even sure the UK will be in Erasmus in a few weeks. Studies at a university in France is 450€, in Germany it's free. If you want to study in English northern Europe is very attractive too.
• research and jobs : the hostile environnement policy is very very dissuasive 

 

How very, very sad.

[Loiner]

28 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

While I did not personally want the UK to remain a full EU member, I think the UK could be better off leading the EFTA instead of this most disastrous form of Brexit.

 

 

Boris was right again, that’s why the euroloving Beeb censored him. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

double post

 

he was a twin

[2530Ubon]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Boris was right again, that’s why the euroloving Beeb censored him. 

He can barely stop himself from laughing, he clearly remembers !

Edited December 8, 2020 by 2530Ubon