There is still the chance of a Brexit deal, Merkel says

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Where’s the promise? 
 

EU promises mean nothing.

 

Fortunately we won the 2016 referendum and the 2019 General Election so we are free of this duplicitous organization after Jan 1 2021.

 

The losers have my sympathy but maybe it's time to stop whining? ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Not much GDP %? Cool, just throw them under the bus then.

 

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Sacrifice them for the sake of the egos and intransigence of the EU commission. You're all heart ????. 

Yes, sometimes you have to throw the breadcrumbs under the bus in order to protect the bigger pieces. The EU has understood that, the UK not so much. It’s protecting the breadcrumbs for the sake of the egos and intransigence of its Brexiteers, throwing under the bus the rest of the country. You're all heart ????. 

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Tariff free trade on specified goods.

 

Canada is a good example. 

 

I thought you were more knowledgeable.

 

But the UK is not asking for free trade on specified goods which is what Canada has. It wants full access tariff free trade.

From the link you provided.

 

They explained that British demands for "regulatory autonomy" as well as its failure to obey European Court of Justice rulings meant it was "not compatible" as a partner within the EU framework.

 

So there was never any danger of a cake and eat it deal that you were all promised.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

EU promises mean nothing.

 

Fortunately we won the 2016 referendum and the 2019 General Election so we are free of this duplicitous organization after Jan 1 2021.

 

The losers have my sympathy but maybe it's time to stop whining? ????

Well you claimed a promise was made. I questioned that that was the case. If you now admit it wasn’t the case, maybe you should also delete that article you linked because it clearly doesn’t support your claim. 

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

didn't even have the opportunity to vote for them. If you're happy with that, fill your boots. 

The E.U. is there, I and many others are not particularly happy or unhappy with it, as ( for the trillion's time ) we don't detect, so far, any positive or negative effect of it on our daily life.

 

Our representatives in the European parliament ( who we voted for ) elected the different European presidents ( Mrs von der Leyen was elected with a tiny majority/so not that popular ).

 

Anyway, the people vote, the politicians decide.

 

Nobody knows, among  the Leave voters, the % who are for a non-deal or a deal.

 

It will be up to Mr. Johnson to decide what he thinks will be the best.

 

All the Leave voters, no matter their opinion, will have to live with his decision.

[Thomas J]

[vogie]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Yes, sometimes you have to throw the breadcrumbs under the bus in order to protect the bigger pieces. The EU has understood that, the UK not so much. It’s protecting the breadcrumbs for the sake of the egos and intransigence of its Brexiteers, throwing under the bus the rest of the country. You're all heart ????. 

It won't be long before the bigger pieces of bread are throwing themselves under the bus.????

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

But the UK is not asking for free trade on specified goods which is what Canada has. It wants full access tariff free trade.

From the link you provided.

 

They explained that British demands for "regulatory autonomy" as well as its failure to obey European Court of Justice rulings meant it was "not compatible" as a partner within the EU framework.

 

So there was never any danger of a cake and eat it deal that you were all promised.

 

 

 

The UK has made it clear that they would like a Canada style arrangement. It's not going to be an exact copy of that deal obviously, that's why there are negotiations. It's not a case of everything or nothing. There are various degrees, various compromises (if sensible). 

 

The "Cake and Eat it" description is just another silly Remainer expression, like "Unicorns" and "cliff edge". Brexiteers never used it or expected it. It's just another strawman, which is all the losers have left at this point.

 

We win, you whine.

[TKDfella]

Personally, I didn't think there ever was a chance other than a no deal, though I did hope I was wrong. Too many big differences. We will now just have to wait and see how the 'cookie crumbles' and the UK will have to get on with what they have...and given a little time I think the UK will be okay. If the EU is that good then they won't miss the UK anyway but somehow I don't that is the full story.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

 

These people will of course not be delighted, they will have to look for another job ( not that easy ), and in the meantime live with state benefits.

 

This will of course cost money, so it is expected that every citizen in the E.U. will have to pay for it.

 

Not that nice for the man in the street.

 

On the other hand he will have the moral satisfaction that the E.U. hasn't abide to the demands of a country, which left the Union.

 

A country which think, because it has a specific nationality, the E.U. ( if not the World ) should simply acknowledge their requests, and astonished that others may have different view and proposals on a situation, labelling these proposals as totally unacceptable.

 

Their own propositions being of course, the only fair ones.

 

To provide financial compensation to French fishermen is less costly than accepting UK's conditions on the rest, as anyway the UK considers that an agreement only engages the opposite party 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Opl

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

The UK has made it clear that they would like a Canada style arrangement. It's not going to be an exact copy of that deal obviously, that's why there are negotiations. It's not a case of everything or nothing. There are various degrees, various compromises (if sensible). 

 

The "Cake and Eat it" description is just another silly Remainer expression, like "Unicorns" and "cliff edge". Brexiteers never used it or expected it. It's just another strawman, which is all the losers have left at this point.

 

We win, you whine.

 

No the UK has made it clear they want full access to the EU with tariff free trade.

Show me another country on the planet that has that?

The EU's position has been clear since before the referendum.

It was vote leave who promised things they could not deliver. And you believed them.

Easiest trade deal in history. We hold all the cards. They need us more than we need them. German car manufacturers. Norway style deal.

All of it designed to appeal to the English exceptionalism you guys feel and you all lapped it up. 

[Henryford]

Of course. Doris will cave in at 23.59 on 31.12.20 and give the EUSSR everything they want.

[luckyluke]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The "Cake and Eat it" description is just another silly Remainer expression, like "Unicorns" and "cliff edge"

Oppose to the Leavers who have the monopoly of the expression " Project Fear ".

Or is it a Hard Brexiteers privilege ?

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

No the UK has made it clear they want full access to the EU with tariff free trade.

Show me another country on the planet that has that?

The EU's position has been clear since before the referendum.

It was vote leave who promised things they could not deliver. And you believed them.

Easiest trade deal in history. We hold all the cards. They need us more than we need them. German car manufacturers. Norway style deal.

All of it designed to appeal to the English exceptionalism you guys feel and you all lapped it up. 

 

Really? I remember hearing about a Canada style deal. I'm sure there were many exaggerations from both sides but I won't go over them again as you are mathematically illiterate and only count the job losses and not the larger number of jobs that replaced them that result in a net drop in unemployment.????

 

The UK's opening position may have been full access but if you've ever negotiated for more than a second hand Honda Wave then you'd know that you don't always expect to get what you first request in your opening position. Like the EU requesting unfettered access to UK fishing waters. Never going to happen. It's an opening position.

 

I certainly didn't expect 'cake and eat it', that a silly Remainer strawman that lacks integrity and imagination. I wanted to leave the single market and customs union. An FTA would have been a bonus but I can live without it. WTO is fine with me, as long as we're out of the corrupt protectionist racket.

 

I'll end up getting 95% of what I wanted, I can understand you being bitter that the reverse is true for you so chin up old boy maybe you'll get Indyref2 in a decade or two.????

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

To provide financial compensation to French fishermen is less costly than accepting UK's conditions on the rest, as anyway the UK considers that an agreement only commits the opposite party 

And German carmakers, and French winemakers, cheese makers, farmers, the list goes on.

 

Wouldn't that break their precious rules on state aid? Oh I forgot, the EU consistently breaks it's own laws when it suits them.

[Caldera]

Getting slimmer by the day, soon there will be a fat chance of that happening!

 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Really? I remember hearing about a Canada style deal. I'm sure there were many exaggerations from both sides but I won't go over them again as you are mathematically illiterate and only count the job losses and not the larger number of jobs that replaced them that result in a net drop in unemployment.????

 

The UK's opening position may have been full access but if you've ever negotiated for more than a second hand Honda Wave then you'd know that you don't always expect to get what you first request in your opening position. Like the EU requesting unfettered access to UK fishing waters. Never going to happen. It's an opening position.

 

I certainly didn't expect 'cake and eat it', that a silly Remainer strawman that lacks integrity and imagination. I wanted to leave the single market and customs union. An FTA would have been a bonus but I can live without it. WTO is fine with me, as long as we're out of the corrupt protectionist racket.

 

I'll end up getting 95% of what I wanted, I can understand you being bitter that the reverse is true for you so chin up old boy maybe you'll get Indyref2 in a decade or two.????

 

 

Its all in there. I hope this helps with your selective memory problem.

So vote leave were promising things they could not deliver. 

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Oppose to the Leavers who have the monopoly of the expression " Project Fear ".

Or is it a Hard Brexiteers privilege ?

Actually "Project Fear" background

"Project Fear" is a term that has entered common usage in British politics in the 21st century, principally in relation to two major referendum debates: the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, and then again during and after the 2016 UK referendum on EU membership (Brexit).

The phrase has been used to characterise unfounded claims of economic and socio-political dangers–primarily those that would result from a change to the existing political status quo–as scaremongering and pessimism.[1]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Fear#cite_note-7

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Oppose to the Leavers who have the monopoly of the expression " Project Fear ".

Or is it a Hard Brexiteers privilege ?

 

I think all Brexiteers are allowed to use that one ????.

 

The key difference I suppose is that the Leavers slogan "Project Fear" was not only accurate, but effective.  

 

Can't really say the same for the Remainer slogans given where we are. Unicorns is just silly, cliff edge is hyperbole, my personal favourite was naming the party Change UK, a party which wanted to keep everything the same as the status quo and then swiftly collapsed. What is it about Remainers and losing? ????.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

These people will of course not be delighted, they will have to look for another job ( not that easy ), and in the meantime live with state benefits.

 

This will of course cost money, so it is expected that every citizen in the E.U. will have to pay for it.

 

Not that nice for the man in the street.

 

On the other hand he will have the moral satisfaction that the E.U. hasn't abide to the demands of a country, which left the Union.

 

A country which think, because it has a specific nationality, the E.U. ( if not the World ) should simply acknowledge their requests, and astonished that others may have different view and proposals on a situation, labelling these proposals as totally unacceptable.

 

Their own propositions being of course, the only fair ones.

Its funny how the people of that small island nation that will probably crumble even more later on thinks it can dictate 27 countries. It once was a powerful nation now its cheating one.

 

That they even think that they will get access to the internal market if they don't adhere to the EU its rules is stupid. I think they are "Corky" kind of special. 

 

Some job losses is bad but it will be worse in the UK. Plus the worse the deal is the less new companies will choose the UK as their home but will go to a country like Belgium or the Netherlands where English is spoken a lot and is part of the EU. 

 

In the end it will ruin the UK more and that is something I can live with if the Brexiteers think they can set the rules they will see soon that they were wrong.

 

 

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

 

Its all in there. I hope this helps with your selective memory problem.

So vote leave were promising things they could not deliver. 

Nah, never saw it. I tend to listen to our Prime Minister.

 

Maybe you need to be more careful where you get your info. Seems you listen to any Tom Dick and Harry. Maybe why you're so misinformed.

 

 

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

given where we are

The U.K. is still now, as it was one day after the Brexit vote.

There may be many different reasons, and personal explanations for that.

It doesn't change however nothing to the fact.

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Plus the worse the deal is the less new companies will choose the UK as their home but will go to a country like Belgium or the Netherlands where English is spoken a lot and is part of the EU. 

I am delighted that even Brexiteers now choose to open factories in EU over the UK. Is that the effect on the car workers they were talking about? 
 

Brexit-backing billionaire will build his SUV in France, not the UK

Britain's richest man and Brexit supporter Jim Ratcliffe has abandoned plans to build a new SUV in the United Kingdom, dealing another blow to a car industry that has already been batteredby the country's exit from the European Union and the pandemic. (...) Ineos said in a statement on Tuesday that its first vehicle, the Grenadier 4x4, will be manufactured at a plant in Hambach, France, that the company is buying from Daimler's (DMLRY)Mercedes-Benz.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/09/business/jim-ratcliffe-grenadier-brexit/index.html

[vinny41]

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

 

Its all in there. I hope this helps with your selective memory problem.

So vote leave were promising things they could not deliver. 

Selective memory issues are occuring in  many different places

How many people remember the phrase ""once in a generation opportunity"

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51120175

[OneMoreFarang]

There is still the chance - if the other side accepts our conditions without conditions.

Wonderful. It just doesn't work if all sides think like that.

 

It's time to cancel the talks. They wasted already too much time on mission impossible.

Hard Brexit, that's it. Use the very little time left to prepare!

 

This is one of the wonderful things which it seems nobody thought about:

The UK still doesn’t have the right pallets for Brexit

The UK still doesn't have the right pallets for Brexit - Metro Shipping Ltd

 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

The U.K. is still now, as it was one day after the Brexit vote.

There may be many different reasons, and personal explanations for that.

It doesn't change however nothing to the fact.

Incorrect. We left the EU 11 months ago. People forget that.

 

Let's see what happens in the next 3 weeks but I'd say No Deal is odds on favourite now. Let's hope so.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Incorrect. We left the EU 11 months ago. People forget that.

 

Let's see what happens in the next 3 weeks but I'd say No Deal is odds on favourite now. Let's hope so.

 

You may have left the E.U. on paper, not in reality ( so easy to forget ),

still have to comply with E.U. rules and laws until 31 December 2020.

 

If  there is no deal, it will bring the U.K. at the day it knocked at the door of the E.U. to "discuss" deals.

 

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

You may have left the E.U. on paper, not in reality ( so easy to forget ),

still have to comply with E.U. rules and laws until 31 December 2020.

 

If  there is no deal, it will bring the U.K. at the day it knocked at the door of the E.U. to "discuss" deals.

 

I think the EU will need a few more years to comprehend that we have actually left before it will be useful to reopen the talks.

 

4 1/2 years since the vote and they still think we're a colony of the EU. I think it will take at least another 5 years after we leave for them to really 'get it'. It would appear their elected selected leaders are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

I think the EU will need a few more years to comprehend that we have actually left before it will be useful to reopen the talks.

 

4 1/2 years since the vote and they still think we're a colony of the EU. I think it will take at least another 5 years after we leave for them to really 'get it'. It would appear their elected selected leaders are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

 

Again a personal approach of the situation.

 

Same as your choice of the word "colony" instead of "member".

[Rookiescot]

47 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nah, never saw it. I tend to listen to our Prime Minister.

 

Maybe you need to be more careful where you get your info. Seems you listen to any Tom Dick and Harry. Maybe why you're so misinformed.

 

 

 

If you had listened to our then Prime Minister then you would be aware that what he was saying is true.

But you did not listen to him. You listened to Farage, Johnson, Gove etc.

You bought into the meaningless slogans. You dismissed what the remain side were saying as project fear.