Successful return to Thailand

[Haveasay]

Jomteinexile as you laze in isolation in Bangkok breathing the toxic fumes, today and in recent weeks, let me give you the, 'Since you've been gone'. I've toured Jomtein to Pattaya Nua often in recent months. At least 50% if not more accommodation is empty. 50% of businesses, again if not many more, are closed, and have for sale or rent. Bars that are still open, have few if any customers, and rarely a male Thai. Obviously Thai females await at bars open but they are few. Personally it's devastating, shocking, even if over past 5 years as Chinese numbers here blew out as represented by number of coaches lined up around Bali Hai and towards water police, replacing all those boats that previously adorned that area. Bali Hai and walking street baron apart from Fri and sat night. Pattaya Nua end of beach the most popular area over weekends, as motels nearby offering discounts, but bars and restaurants have few but invited buses from Bangkok. Those who stay mostly buy meals from vendors and drinks from mini marts. The weather has not changed however. Initially many Thai and non Thai incredibly supported those in need, and you missed that happening, which made many humble. That's stopped, but the locals being survivors continue to support each other and numbers of locals probably didn't drop a lot. Lockdown Thais went home, but most optimistic as things improve. The Chinese have not returned as yet, but indians and the odd Russian have. I also want to add when mentioning past 5 years, it's been noticable, a downturn, compared to 15 to 5 years ago. Maybe in 2 years a noticable change but slowly until then, as tourists will be put of by isolation until vaccine removes this. Compulsory masks in shops frustrating but there's no choice, and likely to be that way for awhile yet, given the mask is prevalent in open air. Hopefully your a beer drinker as there's not a lot of other entertainment. Great speel from you to start this, and hope that process is not in existence when I next return here. Not contemplating leaving just yet. It's tolerable.

[JomtienExile]

BKKBike09: No that's not the complete letter, it does have the clinic's letterhead on it. I posted the text because the Embassy insists that the letter says "TR-PCR COVID-19 test" and that it states the date and time of the test, and the date and time of the doctor's certification of the test result. I don't know if that reflects Thai government policy, or is just a fetish of the Canberra Embassy.

Singo: I'm sorry I don't remember the exact sequence of events with Home Affairs. There's an online form you fill in. They are impossible to speak to directly, but Members of Parliament can speak directly to them, so call your local member or Senator if you get stuck trying to deal with them. As I said, they seem to be more lenient now than they were during the winter. I told them that (a) I own a condo in Thailand, (b) I have a long-stay visa, (c) I have vacated my Melbourne home, (d) I have bought a one-way air-ticket. That apparently satisfied them.

Edited December 15, 2020 by JomtienExile

[JomtienExile]

Haveasay: Thanks for that local update. It does sound a bit sad. I can only say that several local Thai friends have been texting me all through, saying "You come back now, everything here is fine, bars open, beach open etc etc." I'm sure this is because they miss me and nothing to do with money ???? Anyway I will find out on 29 Dec when I get down there. 

I'm surprised to see you say that the Russians and Indians are coming back. I was told that the Thais have a very short list of countries whose citizens will be allowed in: Australia, New Zealand, China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. No Americans, no British and no Europeans, although I'm sure they want the Norwegians back. Maybe this is not the case, or maybe the Russians and Indians are finding back door ways to get in. Personally I'll be happy if they never let the Russians back in, and so will many Thais.

[onebir]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:39 PM, JomtienExile said:

Then I had to get a COVID test and a fit-to-fly letter within 72 hours of the flight. Since the flight was in on a Monday morning, this posed a problem. My GP is not available on weekends, and most public COVID test sites won't test people who don't have symptoms, and don't issue results in writing. So I had to pretend to have symptoms to get tested on Saturday morning, wait 24 hours to get the result by text message, then find a doctor available on Sunday to issue the letter.

This sounds a bit touch and go!

[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, JomtienExile said:

Maybe this is not the case

 

It's not; the list of countries you posted are the countries they keep mentioning when mulling over travel bubbles which in theory, could be without quarantine.

[ezzra]

Now read the OP post, and read the daily news how Covid infested people coming from Burma and other neighboring counties unchecked bringing the virus in to what used to be a virus clean country until very recently, now read the OP post again, do you see the irony here?...

[JomtienExile]

27 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Now read the OP post, and read the daily news how Covid infested people coming from Burma and other neighboring counties unchecked bringing the virus in to what used to be a virus clean country until very recently, now read the OP post again, do you see the irony here?...

I do have some sympathy with the Thais here. Controlling entry of affluent visitors through Suvannaphoum is fairly easy, and they are right to do it. Controlling their long and remote land borders with countries a lot poorer than Thailand, particularly Burma, is obviously much more difficult, particularly when officials on both sides of the border are sometimes both incompetent and bribable. Thailand has been lucky so far, but it's inevitable that their case numbers will go up as movement and business pick up again. That will be true everywhere. In the long run lockdowns and border closures only delay the progress of the pandemic, not stop it. Only the vaccine will do that. 

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, JomtienExile said:

I do have some sympathy with the Thais here. Controlling entry of affluent visitors through Suvannaphoum is fairly easy, and they are right to do it. Controlling their long and remote land borders with countries a lot poorer than Thailand, particularly Burma, is obviously much more difficult, particularly when officials on both sides of the border are sometimes both incompetent and bribable. Thailand has been lucky so far, but it's inevitable that their case numbers will go up as movement and business pick up again. That will be true everywhere. In the long run lockdowns and border closures only delay the progress of the pandemic, not stop it. Only the vaccine will do that. 

Thanks for the response about the letter.

 

My sympathy for the government is diluted by the fact that they do not require a pre-flight Covid test for Thai nationals. For that reason alone I would try to avoid a repatriation flight because the more untested people on a flight, the greater the risk of catching it. Not that I'm particularly worried about catching Covid: my concern would be more that after all the hassle and expense of return, even an asymptomatic positive test in ASQ after 12 days or whatever would translate into another lengthy period of quarantine in a hospital = yet more expense and potentially long-term implications for health insurance eg "you were hospitalised for 2 weeks with Covid ergo we will not cover you in future for X / Y / Z" - even if it was asymptomatic admission (and particularly if hospital notes record any form of treatment).

 

As an aside I find it astonishing that your supposedly progressive and democratic government can forbid a law-abiding citizen from leaving his or her country without 'permission'. What on earth has that got to do with the government? But I digress.

[JomtienExile]

10 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

Thanks for the response about the letter.

 

My sympathy for the government is diluted by the fact that they do not require a pre-flight Covid test for Thai nationals. For that reason alone I would try to avoid a repatriation flight because the more untested people on a flight, the greater the risk of catching it. Not that I'm particularly worried about catching Covid: my concern would be more that after all the hassle and expense of return, even an asymptomatic positive test in ASQ after 12 days or whatever would translate into another lengthy period of quarantine in a hospital = yet more expense and potentially long-term implications for health insurance eg "you were hospitalised for 2 weeks with Covid ergo we will not cover you in future for X / Y / Z" - even if it was asymptomatic admission (and particularly if hospital notes record any form of treatment).

 

As an aside I find it astonishing that your supposedly progressive and democratic government can forbid a law-abiding citizen from leaving his or her country without 'permission'. What on earth has that got to do with the government? But I digress.

Yes, those are valid points. I was certainly apprehensive about the flight itself. I don't know what the requirements were for Thai nationals - everyone was temperature tested on check-in, on boarding and on disembarkation. I was seated between two other Australians so that helped a bit. The cabin crew were all in full PPI. 

On Australia, our government may be democratic but it's far from progressive. The idea was to stop people skipping off to Bali for the weekend and coming back with COVID. But the restrictions are excessive and have gone on too long.

[Haveasay]

Things I may have missed is that it's been obvious as I walk beach regularly and in time hopefully Jomtein gets a wider beach as well, that's the towards Rayong end. But the Thais in their numbers have been able to utilize their country with a lot less non Thais about. Good on them. There's been loads, especially along beach road of food stalls, a weekend fireworks and music festival and more, to brighten Thai faces. To watch Thais enjoying what's there's unhindered, in couples or groups, whether seated or on mats, with their children playing, alleviates their no doubt poorer predicament. However on a sad note as motorbike bike taxis have more freedom as a result of less presence of, leave it at that, but there's an equal quantity of various food delivery drivers, with scant skills, zooming or zig zagging, everywhere. So, in the event you didn't notice other nationalities, who previously occupied the sois and byways, there's a new pest if you own transport. Apart from that the roads are generally quieter in the morning, and adjust at times to not seeing many drivers at all. Here that's definitely not normal, as the absence apart from weekends of the previous plethora of buses, squeezing in and along sois.

[JomtienExile]

5 minutes ago, Haveasay said:

Things I may have missed is that it's been obvious as I walk beach regularly and in time hopefully Jomtein gets a wider beach as well, that's the towards Rayong end. But the Thais in their numbers have been able to utilize their country with a lot less non Thais about. Good on them. There's been loads, especially along beach road of food stalls, a weekend fireworks and music festival and more, to brighten Thai faces. To watch Thais enjoying what's there's unhindered, in couples or groups, whether seated or on mats, with their children playing, alleviates their no doubt poorer predicament. However on a sad note as motorbike bike taxis have more freedom as a result of less presence of, leave it at that, but there's an equal quantity of various food delivery drivers, with scant skills, zooming or zig zagging, everywhere. So, in the event you didn't notice other nationalities, who previously occupied the sois and byways, there's a new pest if you own transport. Apart from that the roads are generally quieter in the morning, and adjust at times to not seeing many drivers at all. Here that's definitely not normal, as the absence apart from weekends of the previous plethora of buses, squeezing in and along sois.

Yes, I'm sure many Thais welcome having the beaches to themselves for a while. On the other hand, places like Jomtien really only exist because of tourism, and most of the Thais who live there earn their living from tourists. So in the long run they need tourism for economic life to revive. Some of my friends have had to go home to Isan or the North, or back to Lao and Cambodia, and now have no money, although at least at home they get fed.

I bought my place here three years ago and no longer class myself as a tourist. I try to be courteous and respectful, and tip generously, and I now know some Thais well enough to hear their side of the tourism story. Some love the opportunities which tourism gives them to make more money, go to university, learn languages and to travel. On the other hand many tourists behave very badly and treat all Thais as either whores or servants, which of course they resent. They despise tourist behaviour which cuts against Thai values, such as public drunkenness and crude sexual behaviour in public. They also have a definite hierarchy of which tourists they like and dislike. Fortunately for me Australians are close to the top.

[BigStar]

10 hours ago, Haveasay said:

Jomteinexile as you laze in isolation in Bangkok breathing the toxic fumes, today and in recent weeks, let me give you the, 'Since you've been gone'. I've toured Jomtein to Pattaya Nua often in recent months. At least 50% if not more accommodation is empty. 50% of businesses, again if not many more, are closed, and have for sale or rent. Bars that are still open, have few if any customers, and rarely a male Thai. Obviously Thai females await at bars open but they are few. Personally it's devastating, shocking, even if over past 5 years as Chinese numbers here blew out as represented by number of coaches lined up around Bali Hai and towards water police, replacing all those boats that previously adorned that area. Bali Hai and walking street baron apart from Fri and sat night. Pattaya Nua end of beach the most popular area over weekends, as motels nearby offering discounts, but bars and restaurants have few but invited buses from Bangkok. Those who stay mostly buy meals from vendors and drinks from mini marts. The weather has not changed however. Initially many Thai and non Thai incredibly supported those in need, and you missed that happening, which made many humble. That's stopped, but the locals being survivors continue to support each other and numbers of locals probably didn't drop a lot. Lockdown Thais went home, but most optimistic as things improve. The Chinese have not returned as yet, but indians and the odd Russian have. I also want to add when mentioning past 5 years, it's been noticable, a downturn, compared to 15 to 5 years ago. Maybe in 2 years a noticable change but slowly until then, as tourists will be put of by isolation until vaccine removes this. Compulsory masks in shops frustrating but there's no choice, and likely to be that way for awhile yet, given the mask is prevalent in open air. Hopefully your a beer drinker as there's not a lot of other entertainment. Great speel from you to start this, and hope that process is not in existence when I next return here. Not contemplating leaving just yet. It's tolerable.

The following statements are false:

• numbers of locals probably didn't drop a lot.
• The Chinese have not returned as yet, but indians and the odd Russian have.
•  Compulsory masks in shops frustrating but there's no choice, and likely to be that way for awhile yet, given the mask is prevalent in open air.
• bars and restaurants have few but invited buses from Bangkok. Those who stay mostly buy meals from vendors and drinks from mini marts.

No Chinese, but a few Indians and more Russians have stayed over from the beginning. Shops have dropped the masks. The malls check when you enter, thereafter many stop wearing them. Supermarkets still require them. Some masks worn in open air but not expected as before. Local restos catering to domestic tourists are doing well enough on the weekends, but especially on holidays, notably those in the malls.

 

High percentage of closings, true, but enough of standard Pattaya remains open so that, with some adjustments, you can lead about the same life now as you did then, except with less traffic to deal with. Great place to be, welcome back when you arrive home. ????

 

[JomtienExile]

It seems I was wrong about travel from Europe. Here in my quarantine room, I can talk to the guy in the next room across our two balconies. He flew in yesterday from Zurich, and he tells me that Swissair have regular flights.

[RemyDog]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:39 AM, JomtienExile said:

After nearly nine months in exile, I arrived in Bangkok yesterday afternoon on the Thai Airways repatriation flight from Sydney. 

I returned to Australia in March and endured a winter of hard lockdown and curfews in Melbourne.  In retrospect of course I should have stayed, but it was impossible then to know what would happen in Thailand with COVID.
In September I applied for the new Special Tourist Visa. I got a pro forma response but nothing ever came of this application. Don't bother with this is my advice.
In November I learned, at this forum, that my non-O Retirement Visa would again be honoured. The Thai Embassy in Canberra confirmed this by email.

I then bought the required health insurance from Pacific Cross. Since I am over 65 I had to have a full medical exam to qualify. Their Bangkok office was very helpful, but this still took two weeks to process.
I then tried to fill in the online application form for the Certificate of Entry, but was unable to make it work. It took many phone calls, with long waits, and many emails, to get the Canberra Embassy to fix this and allow me to submit the CoE form. The staff tried to be helpful but no-one seemed to be responsible for fixing the problem.

My travel agent was unable to find a direct flight. The best she could do was via Singapore with a ten-hour stopover. The Embassy then told me I could take the weekly repatriation flight out of Sydney. The 7 December flight was full but I got on the 14 December flight. I booked and paid for this direct with Thai.

I then booked and paid for a repatriation hotel. I rang through the list of eligible hotels until I found one that had a room with a balcony so I would not have to endure 14 days of hotel air-conditioning, which always makes me sick. This place is expensive by Thai standards but the room is very nice.

Then I had to wait for the CoE to arrive, which it did only on the Friday before the flight. The CoE seems to take two weeks to process even if approved, so the flight must be timed accordingly.

Once I had the CoE I could apply to the Home Affairs Department for an exit permit. I told them I would be away for at least three months. I showed them the title deed to my condo in Jomtien and the one-way air ticket. They accepted this and issued the permit without fuss. Others have not been so lucky.

Then I had to get a COVID test and a fit-to-fly letter within 72 hours of the flight. Since the flight was in on a Monday morning, this posed a problem. My GP is not available on weekends, and most public COVID test sites won't test people who don't have symptoms, and don't issue results in writing. So I had to pretend to have symptoms to get tested on Saturday morning, wait 24 hours to get the result by text message, then find a doctor available on Sunday to issue the letter. Beware that the letter must conform exactly to the wording required by the Embassy or it won't be accepted.

So I then fronted at Sydney Airport a full three hours before the flight, and this was necessary because the check-in process was slow and complicated. I had to show passport, visa, CoE, exit permit, health insurance, hotel booking, fit-to-fly and COVID test to at least five people. All were polite and helpful, but the queue was long and slow.
At Bangkok Airport we were greeted by what looked like half the Thai workforce in full barrier nursing costumes, and went through all the paperwork several times again. We were then dispatched to our quarantine hotels in sealed vans (really) and did the paperwork again on arrival. Again, everyone was polite and helpful but the process is slow. Patience is  required. The Thais are naturally edgy and anyone making a fuss will not be well received.
Nevertheless, here I am on a beautiful Bangkok winter evening, very happy to be back. I will be in quarantine for Xmas but be back home in Jomtien for New Year.
So it can be done. The process is slow, complex and expensive, and requires patience and persistence. I don't think many actual tourists will be willing to jump through all these hoops. 

Thanks for very relevant and useful content. Enjoy your resumption of a good life here in Thailand. Cheers.

[murraynz]

20 hours ago, JomtienExile said:

Lovethai123: "The only reason i am so vocal is because of the terrible attitude of young thais and their hostility towards foreigners. otherwise there is no country like thailand where there are so many girls easily available."

Has it occurred to you that this attitude towards Thai women is why so many young Thais dislike foreigners? (I must say I haven't noticed such dislike in the 16 years I've been coming here, but maybe I've been lucky.)

Elski: the hotels say they are flexible on dates but won't refund if you can't get into the country. I don't know about the Thai flight. 

Ive lived in pattaya 4 yrs..

Have never noticed a dislike for foreigners...

[JomtienExile]

23 minutes ago, murraynz said:

Ive lived in pattaya 4 yrs..

Have never noticed a dislike for foreigners...

Thais in tourist towns of course have a vested interest in being nice to foreigners. But I can only say that if they really dislike foreigners they are very good actors. I think if you show interest in their lives and don't just treat them as servants or sex-objects, they will respond accordingly. 

[Lazybones]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:39 AM, JomtienExile said:

After nearly nine months in exile, I arrived in Bangkok yesterday afternoon on the Thai Airways repatriation flight from Sydney. 

I returned to Australia in March and endured a winter of hard lockdown and curfews in Melbourne.  In retrospect of course I should have stayed, but it was impossible then to know what would happen in Thailand with COVID.
In September I applied for the new Special Tourist Visa. I got a pro forma response but nothing ever came of this application. Don't bother with this is my advice.
In November I learned, at this forum, that my non-O Retirement Visa would again be honoured. The Thai Embassy in Canberra confirmed this by email.

I then bought the required health insurance from Pacific Cross. Since I am over 65 I had to have a full medical exam to qualify. Their Bangkok office was very helpful, but this still took two weeks to process.
I then tried to fill in the online application form for the Certificate of Entry, but was unable to make it work. It took many phone calls, with long waits, and many emails, to get the Canberra Embassy to fix this and allow me to submit the CoE form. The staff tried to be helpful but no-one seemed to be responsible for fixing the problem.

My travel agent was unable to find a direct flight. The best she could do was via Singapore with a ten-hour stopover. The Embassy then told me I could take the weekly repatriation flight out of Sydney. The 7 December flight was full but I got on the 14 December flight. I booked and paid for this direct with Thai.

I then booked and paid for a repatriation hotel. I rang through the list of eligible hotels until I found one that had a room with a balcony so I would not have to endure 14 days of hotel air-conditioning, which always makes me sick. This place is expensive by Thai standards but the room is very nice.

Then I had to wait for the CoE to arrive, which it did only on the Friday before the flight. The CoE seems to take two weeks to process even if approved, so the flight must be timed accordingly.

Once I had the CoE I could apply to the Home Affairs Department for an exit permit. I told them I would be away for at least three months. I showed them the title deed to my condo in Jomtien and the one-way air ticket. They accepted this and issued the permit without fuss. Others have not been so lucky.

Then I had to get a COVID test and a fit-to-fly letter within 72 hours of the flight. Since the flight was in on a Monday morning, this posed a problem. My GP is not available on weekends, and most public COVID test sites won't test people who don't have symptoms, and don't issue results in writing. So I had to pretend to have symptoms to get tested on Saturday morning, wait 24 hours to get the result by text message, then find a doctor available on Sunday to issue the letter. Beware that the letter must conform exactly to the wording required by the Embassy or it won't be accepted.

So I then fronted at Sydney Airport a full three hours before the flight, and this was necessary because the check-in process was slow and complicated. I had to show passport, visa, CoE, exit permit, health insurance, hotel booking, fit-to-fly and COVID test to at least five people. All were polite and helpful, but the queue was long and slow.
At Bangkok Airport we were greeted by what looked like half the Thai workforce in full barrier nursing costumes, and went through all the paperwork several times again. We were then dispatched to our quarantine hotels in sealed vans (really) and did the paperwork again on arrival. Again, everyone was polite and helpful but the process is slow. Patience is  required. The Thais are naturally edgy and anyone making a fuss will not be well received.
Nevertheless, here I am on a beautiful Bangkok winter evening, very happy to be back. I will be in quarantine for Xmas but be back home in Jomtien for New Year.
So it can be done. The process is slow, complex and expensive, and requires patience and persistence. I don't think many actual tourists will be willing to 

 Jomtienexile, my experience pretty much mirrors yours coming from Melbourne so I won't go into it except for the differences. Being 79yo i used the covid only insurance, recently mentioned by Ubonjoe, which was quick and easy to do online, supported by free travel insurance through my CBA Visa card. Unfortunately I had already gone through a broker and did the blood, urine tests and X-rays before I read in Thaivisa about the covid only option. Luckily, being a pensioner, the tests were all free. I paid $120 for a proper covid test which provided an endorsed certificate.  I did ring Qantas for alternative flights and could have got Cathay through HK using ff points but this required stop over in HK so gave that a miss. My hotel at bt30,000 was ok but no balcony and the food, while edible, was just average. My friends came down from the sticks to pick me up (excise for a night in the razz) and, after a big night in Bangkok,  finally am now home with my wife and grandson.