How have Thailand and Cambodia kept Covid cases so low?

[Glaswegian2]

1 hour ago, crazygreg44 said:

Why should the official Thai numbers be wrong? Anyone who claims such a thing should first familiarize themselves with the facts.

 

The argument about the low numbers due to the alleged lack of tests says nothing. On the contrary, this argument is incomprehensible.

 

It is very easy and convenient to say the more you test, the more you will find. Nevertheless it remains pure speculation and has long been refuted by the current and actual situation.

 

Even if there were more active cases that went undetected due to a lack of tests:

 

Isn't it more likely that these cases cannot be serious because they did never, at no point, require any medical treatment. They would  have but caused outbreaks in their environment, because they could hardly all have gone unnoticed.

 

Symptom-free people who felt ill and who had to go to hospital and were not tested, cannot automatically be down with Covid-10, but God knows they may have caught something else. If they had Covid-19, the consequence would be that sooner or later they would infect many others in their environment. But one hears and reads about it: nothing!

 

So there is, according to the naysayers and conspirationists, allegedly - "because one is not testing" - a high number of unknown infected people, and numerous never noticed chains of infections?

 

Just let me ask: Where in Thailand are these sick people?  Where in Thailand were there any outbreaks in the past 7 months?

 

Severe cases mixed with mild cases? WHERE are there any of these in Thailand? That is ridiculous. There is no such thing. There weren't any. Anyone who claims otherwise will simply pull it out of his nose, without proof, without evidence.

 

Such cases cannot possibly have been kept secret by the doctors, hospitals or by the government.

 

Where are they, these “infected people never found, because there is no testing”?

 

In Thailand there have been very few cases of a domestic infections in the past 10 months, and almost all of them have been brought into Thailand from the outside.

 

Since there haven’t been any chains of infectios in Thailand for the past 10 months and no local outbreaks, except for the handful of cases, you don't have to test either. It is that logical, isn't it?

 

If there were any outbreaks, we would know! Even WITHOUT testing.  However, not a single person suffering from the Corona virus has been admitted to a hospital in the past 10 months, except for those infected ones, who arrive from abroad every day since.

 

Furthermore, it is not true that there is no testing at all in Thailand.

 

EVERYONE who is admitted to hospital with a fever, respiratory illness or runny nose will also be tested for Covid-19. It is impossible to evade it. And they would actually make a difference between the virus and a “normal” respiratory infection . .   . . . . as asthma and lung edema have been among the top causes of death in Thailand in the past decade.

 

It is a lame assumption to say that these death were not properly registered or been falsely not attributed to the Coronavirus because they allegedly didn’t test them, because, on the contrary, they get tested as well!

 

We should be glad that the coronavirus in Thailand and neighboring countries has not spread any further than the official figures tell us, due to the discipline of the population and the early taken measures.

 

The Thais do not have the pandemic under control despite the measures or despite the lack of tests, but BECAUSE of the measures.

 

At no time was there a risk that the Thai hospital system would collapse. However it would, were the Thais lowering their protective measures and opening the borders.

 

It's a comforting feeling. And don’t get bogged down by alleged Facebook pandemic experts who don't believe in it. Let the monkeys believe what they want, don’t feed them any sugar.

 

 

Yes, I'm sure you're right. There is no problem, there are no concealed deaths, the low death toll is a direct consequence of superior government and management.

 

An idea which directly counters just about everything else they do.

 

But I'm sure you're right and it was only a failure on the part of my rose-coloured glasses.

 

A Nobel prize is just around the corner and no mistake. Bound to be.

 

Under control - right.

 

 

 

 

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

But that alone doesn't explain why Myanmar has had a lot of reported cases.

Infected  by Thai's as a payback for the a rse-kicking they inflicted of the Thai's in the past ????????????????

[chainarong]

Unless you've been testing the population how do you know how many Virus cases.

 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, chainarong said:

Unless you've been testing the population how do you know how many Virus cases.

 

The fact that nobody is presenting to hospital or dying is a pretty good indicator the case numbers are low or nonexistent

[Artisi]

32 minutes ago, chainarong said:

Unless you've been testing the population how do you know how many Virus cases.

 

If there is no evidence of any disease whether covid or other, why would you undertake testing the population? 

[StevieAus]

22 hours ago, MRJOHNNY said:

Think you will find the U.K. have tested well over half of the population already, approx. 40 million plus tests completed to date, so the possibility of doing the same in Thailand whose population is about 3 million more than the U.K. is not beyond reality. 

Yes but Thailand doesn’t have the problems that they have in the UK, unless you listen to the prophets of doom on this site.

[MRJOHNNY]

20 hours ago, Traubert said:

And they could do it again tomorrow and get a totally different result.

 

Testing is a waste of time and resources.

I am not disagreeing with that , I was simply responding to the O.P. who questioned the possibility of testing a population en-masse.

[Glaswegian2]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The fact that nobody is presenting to hospital or dying is a pretty good indicator the case numbers are low or nonexistent

 

Is there any actual data to support that?

[MRJOHNNY]

21 hours ago, Artisi said:

Raises the question of course, if the country is virtually covid free, why attempt  to test everyone? 

 

The but but but answers count for nothing, only facts count. 

How do you know that the country is virtually Covid free, the majority of cases tested in the U.K. are actually asymptomatic, with people unaware that they have it. The reason it is looking so bad in the U.K. is because of the number of positive tests that they have done not taking into account that the majority of these positive tests are asymptomatic. Mortality figures in the U.K. and the method of  counting and recording  these is another subject which is currently under scrutiny, deaths are recorded as Covid if the person has received a positive Covid result within 28 days of the individuals death, there lies the abnormality in that the individual may have been asymptomatic  and the cause of death may not have been aggravated by this result.

Many members of my family in Thailand have recently suffered the usual seasonal flu and cold symptoms and visited the local clinic, where no tests have been performed for Covid and no referrals been made to hospital, how can a doctor be 100 positive that these symptoms are not Covid related, albeit minor symptoms. 

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, Glaswegian2 said:

 

Is there any actual data to support that?

Go and visit a hospital.

Otherwise, I am sure someone would have lost a friend, family member or neighbor by now, attended a funeral etc, and possibly mentioned it.

[MRJOHNNY]

23 hours ago, BernieOnTour said:

And ... what did that testing change in the UK, if you look at the fatalities?

Read the OPs post to which I was replying, I wasn't arguing the fact of what mass testing had accomplished, merely stating that mass testing of a population is possible. That said without mass testing a countries Covid figures are unreal, no one knows, Thailand may have a large number of asymptomatic individuals and people presenting minor symptoms which have been diagnosed as seasonal flu or common cold as some of my family have.

Regarding fatalities in the U.K. i suggest if you are interested you should look into the method of counting and recording such fatalities. The U.K. government have already come under scrutiny for the system which they use (OR ABUSE!).

[rabas]

35 minutes ago, MRJOHNNY said:

How do you know that the country is virtually Covid free, the majority of cases tested in the U.K. are actually asymptomatic, with people unaware that they have it. The reason it is looking so bad in the U.K. is because of the number of positive tests that they have done not taking into account that the majority of these positive tests are asymptomatic. Mortality figures in the U.K. and the method of  counting and recording  these is another subject which is currently under scrutiny, deaths are recorded as Covid if the person has received a positive Covid result within 28 days of the individuals death, there lies the abnormality in that the individual may have been asymptomatic  and the cause of death may not have been aggravated by this result.

Many members of my family in Thailand have recently suffered the usual seasonal flu and cold symptoms and visited the local clinic, where no tests have been performed for Covid and no referrals been made to hospital, how can a doctor be 100 positive that these symptoms are not Covid related, albeit minor symptoms. 

Just to clear up some old wive's tales now that covid-19 is much better understood.

 

The true number of asymptomatic cases is roughly 17% to 20%. The majority of cases do develop symptoms and you can't hide an ongoing outbreak.  Covid symptoms are mostly different from common runny nose colds so most competent doctors can spot covid-19 much of the time. 

 

Even before covid, Thailand tested significant respiratory infections using an inexpensive 'panel test' to detect any of 20+ causes including flus, rhinovirus, and common cold coronaviruses. Even in January, they used panel tests to distinguish covid from other respiratory illnesses, and can still do that. Bottom line, these is no ongoing widespread covid problem in Thailand.

 

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

 

https://www.zmescience.com/science/true-number-asymptomatic-cases-042342/

 

[rabas]

6 hours ago, Glaswegian2 said:

Yes, I'm sure you're right. There is no problem, there are no concealed deaths, the low death toll is a direct consequence of superior government and management.

 

An idea which directly counters just about everything else they do.

 

But I'm sure you're right and it was only a failure on the part of my rose-coloured glasses.

 

A Nobel prize is just around the corner and no mistake. Bound to be.

 

Under control - right.

Thailand's success dealing with COVID is due to their relatively capable hospital/medical system and attentive population, not some political overlords.

[Andre0720]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:35 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Here's a great case study. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/29/asia/taiwan-covid-19-intl-hnk/index.html

 

https://www.dw.com/en/south-koreans-offer-world-lessons-on-how-to-tame-coronavirus/a-55419719
 

 

Appears that yes, rules to contain the virus were followed. And yes, finally, rules being followed in Thailand, who would have guessed.

So this new virus was mostly contained.

People here, they do not know fear, so they cannot stand fear.

 

No fear of consequences for driving like mad on the roads. No fear on the roads, as there are no consequences from police.

No fear of consequences for hitting an elderly woman in the face, as I saw some time ago, no fear of hitting a 72 year old man in the face, right next to a policeman, as I saw recently on TV. No consequences.

If there is fear, they will get friends, 5 or 6 of them, to suppress the fear created by some antagonist. If there is fear, they will use a knife or gun, to suppress the fear, if friends are nowhere around to make sure that they will not be hurt.

Then this virus was  mostly contained because of the fear that it created in the mind of people here. A fear that cannot be contained, by any means, except by following the rules.

Never seen people following rules here to that extent, just like they finally understand that Buddha and the amulets can only protect on the roads...

 

[Glaswegian2]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Thailand's success dealing with COVID is due to their relatively capable hospital/medical system and attentive population, not some political overlords.

 

Then we disagree. On both counts, though the first may be more true in BKK than in the village where I live.

[Heng]

Who knows.  In the beginning it seemed like India was going to be largely immune, and people said things like: having so many spices, tumeric, etc. in one's diet, combined with how generally dirty the country was meant that Indians had more hearty immune systems..... well, so much for that theory.   

 

As for folks who say it's going unreported, and that there is a some widespread conspiracy to keep Covid deaths secret..... AS IF Thais could keep that kind of secret.   Your neighbors the next street over likely know how much your monthly house payments are, there are no secrets here....

 

 

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Glaswegian2 said:

 

Is there any actual data to support that?

Yep, they undertake a head count at each hospital each day to check how many patients they have, that's just in case a few have slipped in un-noticed. 

[Heng]

There's no ventilator shortage because so many of us are also technical school graduates so we can just rig stuff up with hoses and bicycle pumps.  

[balo]

How many of the elderly who dies every month are tested for COVID-19?  Probably none, so that explains it. 

[MRJOHNNY]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Just to clear up some old wive's tales now that covid-19 is much better understood.

 

The true number of asymptomatic cases is roughly 17% to 20%. The majority of cases do develop symptoms and you can't hide an ongoing outbreak.  Covid symptoms are mostly different from common runny nose colds so most competent doctors can spot covid-19 much of the time. 

 

Even before covid, Thailand tested significant respiratory infections using an inexpensive 'panel test' to detect any of 20+ causes including flus, rhinovirus, and common cold coronaviruses. Even in January, they used panel tests to distinguish covid from other respiratory illnesses, and can still do that. Bottom line, these is no ongoing widespread covid problem in Thailand.

 

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

 

https://www.zmescience.com/science/true-number-asymptomatic-cases-042342/

 

Lets hope so.

[sirineou]

13 hours ago, goatfarmer said:

Exactly. I remember calculating in mid March that if the exponential growth rate of hospitalizations (around 9% per day) continued for six more weeks we would have 400,000 to 500,000 hospitalizations by the end of April. Could've happened. Didn't happen. Hasn't happened. 

Absolutely right, in fact Thai mortality rate was lower in 2020 than it was in 2019.  (the lower 2020 number probably a function of less traffic deaths due to the lock down)

[MRJOHNNY]

40 minutes ago, Glaswegian2 said:

 

Then we disagree. On both counts, though the first may be more true in BKK than in the village where I live.

A "capable hospital, medical system", where relatives sleep on floors and under beds of patients in the wards and are expected to perform basic nursing tasks such as bathing  sick relatives and cleaning various amounts of dross as my wife did when her brother was hospitalised for TB  and she was expected to sanitise a blood spattered bathroom after her brother had coughed half of his lungs up.

 

 

[JensenZ]

On 12/17/2020 at 4:36 AM, lujanit said:

Don't test the wider population, can't report positives.

 

No autopsies performed on the elderly who die, can't report positives.

 

Report people who die from respiratory illness as having died from viral pneumonia.

 

While it might seem as Thailand has done a good job of managing covid the figures which are reported are grossly understated (same as deaths on roads, only report people who are dead at the scene). This is a function of all authoritarian 'governments'.

I agree. A lot of people are getting it, but recovering quickly as most younger people do. If people come down with the sniffles, they're not going to rush to hospital to get tested and possibly be forced into quarantine. In Pattaya super-spreader events take place all the time, with concerts (music Festival) and fireworks displays where thousands get around without masks. Many bars are open are packing people in. There's one near Terminal 21 (can't think of the name) that gets big crowds of Thai people on weekends.

 

I got a cold twice in the last 2 months that I obviously picked up in public (with a face mask on too). I also went to the fireworks display (no mask). People wearing filthy, damp masks in shopping malls will spread it more quickly. I've never had a cold with these symptoms before - it was quite unique, but very mild and gone in a few days... then, I got the same thing 2 months later, with same weird symptoms, but even more mild. It could well have been covid, but the last thing on my mind was to go and get tested. It was one of the most mild colds I can remember. Here I am, only going out about once a week to do shopping, and catching the cold in a room full of people wearing masks, and catching it more often than I ever do. People's masks have become incubators.

 

My theory, and I'm stating an opinion here, so don't get upset.... a lot of people are getting it in Thailand, but it is not reported. Another theory is that Thai people have a very healthy diet with lots of phytochemicals from vegetables, both cooked and raw, and have strong immune systems.

[pattayadgw]

Thats quite an easy question to answer.... they DON'T tell us the TRUTH.....nuff said!!

[dcnx]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:36 PM, lujanit said:

Don't test the wider population, can't report positives.

 

No autopsies performed on the elderly who die, can't report positives.

 

Report people who die from respiratory illness as having died from viral pneumonia.

 

While it might seem as Thailand has done a good job of managing covid the figures which are reported are grossly understated (same as deaths on roads, only report people who are dead at the scene). This is a function of all authoritarian 'governments'.

You nailed it.

 

It’s not a coincidence that most authoritarian governments are recoding very low or no infections/deaths. 

 

Myanmar kept a lid on it as long as they could but there are too many now to hide it due to their poor healthcare system. My maid is Burmese, she has lost half of her family to Covid over the past two months. She said for several months the they were dismissing all illnesses and deaths as the flu but now they can’t deny it longer and desperately need assistance. They have one of the worst health care systems in the entire world.

 

We’ve had several elders die in our neighborhood. Of course everyone is talking, scared of the virus, but they wouldn’t even do autopsies on them. Said they died of pneumonia related illnesses and that was that.

 

I would wager if Thailand did wide random testing as well as posthumous testing, there would be a lot of infections.

 

Seeing how the police are going to charge the one healthcare worker for making them look bad when exposing a weakness in border control, it’s no wonder no info is coming from the hospitals. Everyone is scared to post anything here out of fear of police and junta retaliation. But this is what such an oppressive government does, makes people live in fear and covers the truth.

 

 

[Don Chance]

Thailand and Cambodia did something very simple: they closed their borders.

US, Canada, EU, UK did not.

[daveAustin]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:11 PM, webfact said:

How have Thailand and Cambodia kept Covid cases so low?

Face, potential loss of future tourism revenues, lack of centralised health service, lack of reporting, woeful lack of testing, apathy among healthcare professionals, fear when reporting anomalies/truths by aforementioned aside... because they can! It's just words on paper after all. Posit elderly populace in Thailand is much diminished, however.

 

Quote

Prof Anucha Apisarnthanarak, chief of the infectious diseases division at Thammasat University, said the country’s success was down to clear communication by health experts, a willingness to allow scientists to lead the response and an effective lockdown, which was followed by the public.

lol. see above.

[daveAustin]

58 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Thailand and Cambodia did something very simple: they closed their borders.

US, Canada, EU, UK did not.

It was well in before then bruv.

[daveAustin]

Cynicism aside, and I do in fact love the place and people, but I knew Thailand would have one of - if not THE - 'lowest' rates in the world. Folk with some nous might agree.

[Glaswegian2]

13 hours ago, MRJOHNNY said:

A "capable hospital, medical system", where relatives sleep on floors and under beds of patients in the wards and are expected to perform basic nursing tasks such as bathing  sick relatives and cleaning various amounts of dross as my wife did when her brother was hospitalised for TB  and she was expected to sanitise a blood spattered bathroom after her brother had coughed half of his lungs up.

 

Indeed. The concept of a "capable hospital, medical system" has no reasonable place in Thailand. It just does not exist except in places which cost an arm and a leg to get a wound bandaged. It certainly does not exist in the space that most Thais occupy. It just hasn't been seen as being as important as getting additional profits and wealth for the 1% who actually run this country. We ought really come to terms with (what I believe is) the reality in Thailand, which is that the vast majority of the country are merely revenue-earning cannon fodder for that 1%. The majority of what are the government and those who run the government are only interested in getting more money and the devil take the majority, who have been successfully and successively brainwashed to believe that what they are is a form of karmic adjustment and that their exploitation is righteous. This conveniently avoids rebellion, but the news of recent months is that when the smartest part of the population decide that change is necessary, then the writing is on the wall.

My opinion, fwiw.