U.S. says Ghislaine Maxwell should stay behind bars, deserves no bail

[2530Ubon]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

She played a part in organizing the abuse, that’s a crime.

 

I’m sure the Prosecution will be more than happy to hear any testimony Maxwell may wish to offer up on the matter of who raped and abused the minors she recruited to be raped and sexually abused.

Did she? Or was she present at the time.

 

Why not go after Prince Andrew - there's a woman who is saying he definitely did have sex with her, and there is a picture (so I've heard - I've not seen it myself) of the two together in a house where the deed was done.

 

Why not go after ANY of the men who commited these crimes?

[cmarshall]

8 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Did she have sex with them? No. Why not go after the people who did these things?

Maxwell was indeed accused of having sex with some of the girls.  But the main point is that when you drive the getaway car for the bank robbery you are just as guilty as the guys with the guns.  

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, 2530Ubon said:

Did she? Or was she present at the time.

 

Why not go after Prince Andrew - there's a woman who is saying he definitely did have sex with her, and there is a picture (so I've heard - I've not seen it myself) of the two together in a house where the deed was done.

 

Why not go after ANY of the men who commited these crimes?

Once again:

 

On 12/19/2020 at 9:12 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

For the record.

 

Whoever is implicated in the crimes committed by Epstein and Maxwell must be fully and transparently investigated and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

Regardless of who they are.

 

 

Has it occurred to you that Maxwell is a material witness to the crimes committed at Epstein’s residences and that prosecuting her to the full extent of the law is s means to get her to start cooperating with the prosecution of those offenders?

[cmarshall]

2 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Did she? Or was she present at the time.

 

Why not go after Prince Andrew - there's a woman who is saying he definitely did have sex with her, and there is a picture (so I've heard - I've not seen it myself) of the two together in a house where the deed was done.

 

Why not go after ANY of the men who commited these crimes?

 

The prosecutors' best chance of nailing the men involved is if Maxwell testifies against them, which she has apparently not agreed to do.

[2530Ubon]

I don't know. I just checked, and you're right, she is accused of having sex with one 15 year old girl. I don't believe it, I think she was just there. For starters, she's not a lesbian, or Bi.

There's a lot of talk about Epstien and Maxwells crimes - I don't think that way. I think it's Epstien and the guys who did the deeds. She has repeatedly denied seeing any underage sex, and unless there is some evidence to back it up, I think we should believe that.

[stuarty]

1 minute ago, 2530Ubon said:

I don't know. I just checked, and you're right, she is accused of having sex with one 15 year old girl. I don't believe it, I think she was just there. For starters, she's not a lesbian, or Bi.

 

How tf do you know

[2530Ubon]

4 minutes ago, stuarty said:

How tf do you know

How do you know it's true? I feel sorry for her a little bit! She's just one woman, and whilst there is a lot of evidence to show that Prince Andrew did have sex with a minor, no one is going after him. No one is going after all of the guys who have been named and shamed. Only this woman.

Edited December 20, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[sammieuk1]

Mummy make all this go away said one non perspiring tub of lard as a Frenchman was arrested and charged this week ????

[Chomper Higgot]

She can make life a lot easier for herself by cooperating with the prosecutors and providing testimony against the men she was procuring minors for.

Edited December 22, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[2530Ubon]

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

She can make life a lot easier for herself by cooperating with the prosecutors and providing testimony against the men she was procuring minors for.

That's the whole point though, they are powerful men.

 

Even Bill Clinton is involved. If Epstien would rather kill himself (or, much more likely - he was killed in jail) then what chance does she have? Why do you think she hired armed guards around her house 24/7?

 

She may have been a party to it all, or she may have been a 'victim' herself - sucked in at first in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with Epstien and subsequently forced to do these things by powerful men. We just don't know.

 

I would rather the government went after these powerful men who are obviously going to protect themselves. If she is found guilty, then deservedly so, but we should be going after the ones who did the crimes first. Deal with the conspirators later, or at least let her be at home under armed guard.

[Sujo]

The problem with her getting bail is that she was in hiding, until caught. If she presented herself voluntarily she may have got bail. Now no chance.

 

There are many in jail yet to be sentenced.

Edited December 22, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Sujo]

10 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

That's the whole point though, they are powerful men.

 

Even Bill Clinton is involved. If Epstien would rather kill himself (or, much more likely - he was killed in jail) then what chance does she have? Why do you think she hired armed guards around her house 24/7?

 

She may have been a party to it all, or she may have been a 'victim' herself - sucked in at first in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with Epstien and subsequently forced to do these things by powerful men. We just don't know.

 

I would rather the government went after these powerful men who are obviously going to protect themselves. If she is found guilty, then deservedly so, but we should be going after the ones who did the crimes first. Deal with the conspirators later, or at least let her be at home under armed guard.

Your way of thinking is that if you give a 10 year old candy to touch your willy then its ok becsuse she agreed. And the person that brought the 10 year old has nothing to do with it.

 

How odd.

 

As for going after the men, what makes you think they arent. They have a right to silence, you think a pic is enough to warrant charges against andrew? 

 

All this woman has to do is spill the details of the men. She will get less and they will get done.

[2530Ubon]

27 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Your way of thinking is that if you give a 10 year old candy to touch your willy then its ok becsuse she agreed. And the person that brought the 10 year old has nothing to do with it.

 

How odd.

Another false equivalency - we're not talking about little kids & candy. In France, the girls would have been a few months away from being legally able to consent. In the UK, one year away. And vast amounts of money being offered.

 

I didn't say I agreed with it - in fact I expressly disapproved.

 

Jeffery was killed in jail - highly unlikely he could have topped himself off. What do you think her chances are if she even hints at giving up names and details?

 

Go after Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew or any of the other powerful folks - one of them will crack. Then we'll find out just how much she knew and did - without her getting killed in the process

Edited December 20, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[candide]

2 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Did she have sex with them? No. Why not go after the people who did these things?

 

I agree that the offenses are crimes, but they aren't victims. They were propositioned. They accepted. They found more willing girls who wanted to have sex and get money from rich people and Princes. Bleating about it now when they were quite happy to make the choice back then. Perhaps in France and the UK it's not such a big deal. We can have sex at 15 and 16 respectively.

In countries such as France she would be accused of pimping, with aggravated circumstances as the girls were underage.

Edited December 20, 2020 by candide

[cmarshall]

I am amazed at the number of people who are apparently unacquainted with the concepts of being an accessory to a crime or of criminal conspiracy.

[paddypower]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again:

 

 

 

Has it occurred to you that Maxwell is a material witness to the crimes committed at Epstein’s residences and that prosecuting her to the full extent of the law is s means to get her to start cooperating with the prosecution of those offenders?

agreed. sex and/or procuring for sex with a minor is rape.  As Basil Fawltey would say, trying to explain that to  these Maxwell fans, 'it's easier to train a monkey' .

[paddypower]

52 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Another false equivalency - we're not talking about little kids & candy. In France, the girls would have been a few months away from being legally able to consent. In the UK, one year away. And vast amounts of money being offered.

 

I didn't say I agreed with it - in fact I expressly disapproved.

 

Jeffery was killed in jail - highly unlikely he could have topped himself off. What do you think her chances are if she even hints at giving up names and details?

 

Go after Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew or any of the other powerful folks - one of them will crack. Then we'll find out just how much she knew and did - without her getting killed in the process

if it were possible to be criminally naive, you'd be in trouble. The only way the law has a chance to nail these guys, is if they have a turncoat, who will agree to testify, in exchange for a witness protection program or similar. Don't you watch the movies? 

Girl gets cut loose, by naive Fed, who loves her. Body turns up in New York Harbour. Fed feels brokenhearted. Bad guys go free.

[2530Ubon]

30 minutes ago, paddypower said:

agreed. sex and/or procuring for sex with a minor is rape.  As Basil Fawltey would say, trying to explain that to  these Maxwell fans, 'it's easier to train a monkey' .

I'm definitely not a Maxwell fan, but I do think it's an absolute joke that they're going after her without trying to go after the actual perpetrators - the men who commited the acts.

 

Maxwell may well be guilty of conspiracy, but after what happened to Epstien, does anyone really think she's gonna talk about anyone else? She may have been forced to do these things herself! We don't know. If she did do all of these things then of course she deserves to go away for a long time. That being said, she should still get bail. She's offered up all of her residences and money, and has armed guards at her home - probably to protect herself against these powerful men.

 

She's an easy target. Her name is as good as muck now anyway, what does she care about the press releases. Prince Andrew etc, are obviously much better protected due to their status, wealth and power, but have much much more to lose.

 

Would you rat out folks like this after what happened and knowing what could happen to you? Of course not. The only way we're going to find out what happened is to prosecute and investigate these powerful men. Start pressuring them. One of them isn't going to want to see the insides of a jail cell, or have their names splashed all over the papers, or legacy and honor stained Someone will crack.

Edited December 20, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

Another false equivalency - we're not talking about little kids & candy. In France, the girls would have been a few months away from being legally able to consent. In the UK, one year away. And vast amounts of money being offered.

 

I didn't say I agreed with it - in fact I expressly disapproved.

 

Jeffery was killed in jail - highly unlikely he could have topped himself off. What do you think her chances are if she even hints at giving up names and details?

 

Go after Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew or any of the other powerful folks - one of them will crack. Then we'll find out just how much she knew and did - without her getting killed in the process

Once again, the prosecution need evidence that will stand up in court to go after anyone, let alone the rich and powerful.

 

For the time being they have Maxwell, who is very rich and in comparison to her victims very powerful.

 

Do let the prosecution put her through the mill, she can make life easier for herself by cooperating.

 

As a credibly accused perpetrator of sex crimes against children and a coconspirator in child rape she deserves everything she’s going through.

 

Why you are putting so much effort into defending her and minimizing the crimes against these children is a mystery.

[from the home of CC]

there seems to be a fire sale for executions lately, throw her into that mix and save some tax dollars..

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

Another false equivalency - we're not talking about little kids & candy. In France, the girls would have been a few months away from being legally able to consent. In the UK, one year away. And vast amounts of money being offered.

 

I didn't say I agreed with it - in fact I expressly disapproved.

 

Jeffery was killed in jail - highly unlikely he could have topped himself off. What do you think her chances are if she even hints at giving up names and details?

 

Go after Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew or any of the other powerful folks - one of them will crack. Then we'll find out just how much she knew and did - without her getting killed in the process

Oh ok, just a few months away from legal age makes it legal and ok. Whats a few months.

 

Let me tell u something.

 

If im from a country where legal age for sex is 16 and i go to a country where legal age is 14. 

 

I have sex with a 14 year old in that country my country will hunt me down for child prostitution or rape.

[Sujo]

16 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

I'm definitely not a Maxwell fan, but I do think it's an absolute joke that they're going after her without trying to go after the actual perpetrators - the men who commited the acts.

 

Maxwell may well be guilty of conspiracy, but after what happened to Epstien, does anyone really think she's gonna talk about anyone else? She may have been forced to do these things herself! We don't know. If she did do all of these things then of course she deserves to go away for a long time. That being said, she should still get bail. She's offered up all of her residences and money, and has armed guards at her home - probably to protect herself against these powerful men.

 

She's an easy target. Her name is as good as muck now anyway, what does she care about the press releases. Prince Andrew etc, are obviously much better protected due to their status, wealth and power, but have much much more to lose.

 

Would you rat out folks like this after what happened and knowing what could happen to you? Of course not. The only way we're going to find out what happened is to prosecute and investigate these powerful men. Start pressuring them. One of them isn't going to want to see the insides of a jail cell, or have their names splashed all over the papers, or legacy and honor stained Someone will crack.

Why should she get bail? She is a flight risk to serious crimes where rich and powerful people are involved.

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again, the prosecution need evidence that will stand up in court to go after anyone, let alone the rich and powerful.

 

For the time being they have Maxwell, who is very rich and in comparison to her victims very powerful.

 

Do let the prosecution put her through the mill, she can make life easier for herself by cooperating.

 

As a credibly accused perpetrator of sex crimes against children and a coconspirator in child rape she deserves everything she’s going through.

 

Why you are putting so much effort into defending her and minimizing the crimes against these children is a mystery.

 

Because in the UK, people wanted to see Prince Andrew get what he deserves. He's been known to us as a filandering pillock for a long time.

 

I think it's ridiculous that he doesn't even get questioned due to his name. Maxwell however, is nothing. Just a socialite, so let's go after the easy mark. Donald Trump is another one who famously quoted about his friend Epstein "Oh, he likes the girls just as much as I do, he likes them young too!"

 

Fair enough, I made a stupid comment about the victims getting tons of cash and were paid for finding other girls. I read that and immediately couldn't sympathize with them. Yes, it should never have happened, and everyone involved should be faced with the full force of the law. If Maxwell is involved she should be prosecuted.

 

It's prostitution, and the girls were acting like pimps themselves by finding more victims. They were, by all accounts that I read, willing participants who went out of their way to find more for Epstein. They may indeed be victims, by law, but they aren't too far off the age of consent in like minded western countries such as France and the UK. In those countries we are talking about a matter of months. YES it is still illegal and wrong, but if the age of consent is only a few months away, are you telling me the girls had no responsibility for making that choice?

Again, I'm not saying it's okay, it's definitely not. But at that age, you have to take some responsibility too and saying you were a victim when you were extremely well paid and then found other people to become victims is clearly hypocritical. I am not okay with what happened. Yes it is illegal, and they should be prosecuted. But I personally don't feel we should put these girls in the same basket as real victims of abuse by the church, or real victims of abuse who have to live with the the family members that are abusing them for example.

 

Put it this way, if someone offered me a sh-t ton of cash to give an older woman a massage and a good time - and she was famous and wealthy - perhaps a princess or pop star - I probably would have done it. You may find that you'd do it too. Are you a victim? Or are you someone who made a choice and taken payment. Again, I don't think it's right, it's clearly illegal and morally wrong.

 

The hypocrisy is the fact that Donald Trump, Bill Cliinton and Prince Andrew have all walked away from this without so much as a casual word from the FBI. Despite claims from women and photographic evidence of them being together in the same house. Clinton went on 4 trips with Epstein - and we all know how much of a dog he was. Trump himself boasted that he can just shove his fingers in their ().

 

“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

 

"President Clinton knows nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to in Florida some years ago, or those with which he has been recently charged in New York," reads the statement from a Clinton spokesperson.

"In 2002 and 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane: one to Europe, one to Asia, and two to Africa, which included stops in connection with the work of the Clinton Foundation."

 

Didn't he famously say he "Never had sexual relations with that woman" - referring of course to Miss Lewinskey

 

Prince Andrew also denied allegations that he had sex with one of Epstein's alleged victims, Virginia Giuffre, multiple times.

"I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady. None whatsoever," Prince Andrew said.

Edited December 20, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[candide]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

Because in the UK, people wanted to see Prince Andrew get what he deserves. He's been known to us as a filandering pillock for a long time.

 

I think it's ridiculous that he doesn't even get questioned due to his name. Maxwell however, is nothing. Just a socialite, so let's go after the easy mark. Donald Trump is another one who famously quoted about his friend Epstein "Oh, he likes the girls just as much as I do, he likes them young too!"

 

Fair enough, I made a stupid comment about the victims getting tons of cash and were paid for finding other girls. I read that and immediately couldn't sympathize with them. Yes, it should never have happened, and everyone involved should be faced with the full force of the law. If Maxwell is involved she should be prosecuted.

 

It's prostitution, and the girls were acting like pimps themselves by finding more victims. They were, by all accounts that I read, willing participants who went out of their way to find more for Epstein. They may indeed be victims, by law, but they aren't too far off the age of consent in like minded western countries such as France and the UK. In those countries we are talking about a matter of months. YES it is still illegal and wrong, but if the age of consent is only a few months away, are you telling me the girls had no responsibility for making that choice?

Again, I'm not saying it's okay, it's definitely not. But at that age, you have to take some responsibility too and saying you were a victim when you were extremely well paid and then found other people to become victims is clearly hypocritical. I am not okay with what happened. Yes it is illegal, and they should be prosecuted. But I personally don't feel we should put these girls in the same basket as real victims of abuse by the church, or real victims of abuse who have to live with the the family members that are abusing them for example.

 

Put it this way, if someone offered me a sh-t ton of cash to give an older woman a massage and a good time - and she was famous and wealthy - perhaps a princess or pop star - I probably would have done it. You may find that you'd do it too. Are you a victim? Or are you someone who made a choice and taken payment. Again, I don't think it's right, it's clearly illegal and morally wrong.

 

The hypocrisy is the fact that Donald Trump, Bill Cliinton and Prince Andrew have all walked away from this without so much as a casual word from the FBI. Despite claims from women and photographic evidence of them being together in the same house. Clinton went on 4 trips with Epstein - and we all know how much of a dog he was. Trump himself boasted that he can just shove his fingers in their ().

 

“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

 

"President Clinton knows nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to in Florida some years ago, or those with which he has been recently charged in New York," reads the statement from a Clinton spokesperson.

"In 2002 and 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane: one to Europe, one to Asia, and two to Africa, which included stops in connection with the work of the Clinton Foundation."

 

Didn't he famously say he "Never had sexual relations with that woman" - referring of course to Miss Lewinskey

 

Prince Andrew also denied allegations that he had sex with one of Epstein's alleged victims, Virginia Giuffre, multiple times.

"I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady. None whatsoever," Prince Andrew said.

Being together is not an evidence of wrongdoing. As concerns Trump and Clinton, there are no testimonies implicating them, apart from a rape lawsuit against Trump and Epstein which has been withdrawn. Guilty or not, there isn't much to predicate an investigation.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

Donald Trump is another one who famously quoted about his friend Epstein "Oh, he likes the girls just as much as I do, he likes them young too!"

 

   Misquote :

  The actual quote was :

 

 

• A Trump biographer, Tim O'Brien, tweeted the quote from a 2002 profile of Epstein in New York magazine, in which Trump said: "I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

[stuarty]

6 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

How do you know it's true? I feel sorry for her a little bit! She's just one woman, and whilst there is a lot of evidence to show that Prince Andrew did have sex with a minor, no one is going after him. No one is going after all of the guys who have been named and shamed. Only this woman.

She's just one woman?  Have you followed anything at all?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, 2530Ubon said:

You are correct - I do not defend their behavior at all. I have consistently said what happened was wrong, illegal, immoral and the perps - the men especially - should be locked away for a long time.

 

I object to them being described as victims, when they were teenagers of legal consent in other western countries - France and the UK have lower ages of consent, but they can hardly be called backwards countries can they? Are American women dumber than their European conterparts and unable to make a responsible choice?

 

I object to the government not going after any of the men involved.

 

I object to Ms Maxwell not getting bail - Epstein died in prison, she'll be next if she tries to impliacte any of them. 

Your objections to US law are irrelevant.

The law in other countries is irrelevant.

 

The fact that US prosecutors have sought testimony from Prince Andrew suggests assumptions wrt investigation of the ‘men involved’ are unfounded.

 

The fact that prosecuting Maxwell for her crimes as a path to obtaining testimony against the ‘men involved’ had been explained to you.

 

The minors who were raped and sexually abused are victims, your continued attempts to portray them otherwise is noted.

 

Refer any of the multiple posts above that explain to you why that is so.

 

[Tangmouk]

 Time will tell, be patient like the rest of the world. Almost everyone wants the perpetrators caught and prosecuted. More so if they are VIPs. Due process is needed and maxwell being a hostile witness will be slow and tedious work for investigators. They need evidence! A turncoat 

Edited December 22, 2020 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[2530Ubon]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:17 AM, Tangmouk said:

Time will tell, be patient like the rest of the world. Almost everyone wants the perpetrators caught and prosecuted. More so if they are VIPs. Due process is needed and maxwell being a hostile witness will be slow and tedious work for investigators. They need evidence! A turncoat 

 

 

What happened was illegal in the USA. it would have been fine in Europe. We would call them dirty old men and prostitutes. 

 

Whilst I agree that they broke the law in the US, and they should be punished, i don't think we should view these women as little innocent victims - especially when they were pimping out their friends to get more cash.

Edited December 22, 2020 by onthedarkside
quotes of hidden content removed

[paddypower]

On 12/21/2020 at 11:03 AM, 2530Ubon said:

 

What happened was illegal in the USA. it would have been fine in Europe. We would call them dirty old men and prostitutes. 

 

Whilst I agree that they broke the law in the US, and they should be punished, i don't think we should view these women as little innocent victims - especially when they were pimping out their friends to get more cash.

 

you ability to misrepresent is fascinating. The world which your alleged pimping went on was modelling/fashion industry - a very attractive career for young beautiful women to try to get introduced in to. If you are from one of the EU countries where you can (deleted) a 14-15 old, I can understand your viewpoint.

 

There have been plenty of sex scandals alleged/discovered - Dominique Strauss-Kahn, ex head of the International Monetary Fund is a notorious sexual predator.  Look at this French lout, top of the fashion industry and now facing serious charges. My recollection is that some of the top people of influence have similar predatory habits.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden content removed