is investing in stock market a job (in homecounty)?

[mateusz1945]

Planing to get marriage visa soon. Came to Thailand to stay.  I am not employed and that's what i wrote in arrival form (true) Now...

They seem to be interested in my occupation. I don't want misunderstandings  in the future so my question is.... should i mention anything about stock income? i did mark  that i have some income but no job.
my income will be taxed in my home-country. I will meet the 400k  requirement so i guess they wouldn't care? anyone  have any tips about this topic?

[federicoP]

Too young to write "retired" ?

 

Thailand does not mind about your investments abroad

Edited December 24, 2020 by federicoP
spelling error

[mateusz1945]

4 minutes ago, federicoP said:

Too young to write "retired" ?

 

Thailand does not mind about your investmenta abroad

yep....  too young to real retirement 

well they ask question about job and income and idk what is their definitions... so i don't wanna shoot myself in the knee with wrong answer i guess.

BTW  is it possible to  to  have that 400k in thai investment account , like on stock market but thai?  so inflation doesn't eat it for whole year?

[federicoP]

Thailand  "Revenue Code", Chapter 3 "Income Tax",  Section 41 states :

 

"A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand."

 

So, do not worry about this.

 

 

[federicoP]

43 minutes ago, mateusz1945 said:

BTW  is it possible to  to  have that 400k in thai investment account , like on stock market but thai?  so inflation doesn't eat it for whole year?

 

If you need the 400k for your visa, they must be kept in a bank account, for sure not invested in the thai stock market.

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, mateusz1945 said:

BTW  is it possible to  to  have that 400k in thai investment account , like on stock market but thai?  so inflation doesn't eat it for whole year?

Your planning to obtain a "marriage visa".

You mean a non O and subsequent annual extension based on marriage.

Skip the employment side issue. It's irrelevant. 

Have you  been to Thailand previously?

Strange thread to say the least.

[Surelynot]

If you are living off income from the stock market you must have an absolute shed load invested........

[mateusz1945]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Your planning to obtain a "marriage visa".

You mean a non O and subsequent annual extension based on marriage.

Skip the employment side issue. It's irrelevant. 

Have you  been to Thailand previously?

Strange thread to say the least.

yeap non o and annual extensions. First time in thailand. 
 

Strange tread.... well actually everything matters in the long run. that 400k could become part of my income if it wasn't passively sitting in bank.
also i am thinking if stock market would be allowed for expats and capital gain taxes are lower than my country then... is it possible to do it here?

 

 

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, mateusz1945 said:

yeap non o and annual extensions. First time in thailand. 
 

Strange tread.... well actually everything matters in the long run. that 400k could become part of my income if it wasn't passively sitting in bank.
also i am thinking if stock market would be allowed for expats and capital gain taxes are lower than my country then... is it possible to do it here?

 

 

A marriage extension requires 400k in Thai bank for 2 months prior to application and in most cases also the under consideration period. Then can be used. Hardly significant hit on your portfolio. 

Won't address the tax evasion issue.

 

[federicoP]

I would suggest to check this link for a first approach to the general tax matter in Thailand  :
https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

 

To go deeper :
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/37694.0.html

[mateusz1945]

3 minutes ago, federicoP said:

I would suggest to check this link for a first approach to the general tax matter in Thailand  :
https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

 

To go deeper :
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/37694.0.html

thanks will definitely look into it

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

I keep hearing about this "stock market" thing. Is it any good? I just have to buy and sell stocks all day long? Could it yield me at least 60k baht in profit, so I could quit my teaching job?

 

I'm already married to a Thai, so I'd just need 40k income to get the Non-O. But 60k would be better.

 

Heck, 100k+ would be better, so I wouldn't have to feel so inadequate around those international school guys at the pubs. Could the stock market do that for me? Thanks guys.

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, mateusz1945 said:

yep....  too young to real retirement 

well they ask question about job and income and idk what is their definitions... so i don't wanna shoot myself in the knee with wrong answer i guess.

BTW  is it possible to  to  have that 400k in thai investment account , like on stock market but thai?  so inflation doesn't eat it for whole year?

 

too young for retirement in a westernland country.

get a non-o based on retirement at age 50.

[swissie]

There is a fundamental question connected to this thread: Has OP made some money in the past in the stock-market or has he heard from "a friend" that "tons of money can be made in todays stock market" without lifting a finger nor needing any expertise?

 

I am afraid that the latter is the case, otherwise OP would not consider the 400K Baht for a marriage visa worth mentioning in the first place and within this context.

Have met a few guys, arriving with 20K US$, hoping to generate enough income by trading the markets. Sorry, no success stories to tell about.

No wonder. Even top Investement funds are not yielding more than 10% in the long run. So, how much Capital would one need to generate an income of (let's say) 40'000 Bht a month? Assuming that a long-term yield of 10% can be maintained over many years? You do the figureing.

Short term trading? Most serious trading-platforms/brokerages inform their customers that on average roughly 80% of their customers lose money over the long run.

 

As the old saying goes: Thailand is nice if the assets that one has accumulated over time in the "western-world" will suffice.
Thailand does not accomodate undercapitalised "Western-Dreamers". But it does accomodate overcapitalised "Western-Dreamers. For better or for worse. 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

There is a fundamental question connected to this thread: Has OP made some money in the past in the stock-market or has he heard from "a friend" that "tons of money can be made in todays stock market" without lifting a finger nor needing any expertise?

 

I am afraid that the latter is the case, otherwise OP would not consider the 400K Baht for a marriage visa worth mentioning in the first place and within this context.

Have met a few guys, arriving with 20K US$, hoping to generate enough income by trading the markets. Sorry, no success stories to tell about.

No wonder. Even top Investement funds are not yielding more than 10% in the long run. So, how much Capital would one need to generate an income of (let's say) 40'000 Bht a month? Assuming that a long-term yield of 10% can be maintained over many years? You do the figureing.

Short term trading? Most serious trading-platforms/brokerages inform their customers that on average roughly 80% of their customers lose money over the long run.

 

As the old saying goes: Thailand is nice if the assets that one has accumulated over time in the "western-world" will suffice.
Thailand does not accomodate undercapitalised "Western-Dreamers". But it does accomodate overcapitalised "Western-Dreamers. For better or for worse. 

if you have around 250,000 GBP to invest and you generate a 5% dividend then you would be able to have 40,000 Baht per month on average. There are a few solid blue chip stocks that might do that. 
 

As far as tax is concerned my understanding was that it would be free of Thai tax if it was earned in the previous tax year? So dividends paid in 2020 could be brought into Thailand in 2021 without a tax liability.

 

I’m not in Thailand so have not put that to the test. I’d be interested in knowing if my understanding is correct? 

[jackdd]

Nobody cares what you write on the arrival card, you can write whatever you want.

[Neeranam]

When I was on a extension for being the father of Thais, I told them the 400k came from money I earned in the stock market. There was no problem. 

[DaLa]

All Thai women refer to their farang partners as 'Engineers'. I believe Immigration accept that there are 500,000 very wealthy retired engineers out here.

[Lacessit]

I get an Australian part pension and income from investments in Australia, file a tax return there. The investments include dividend-paying shares.

I can't see why the income derived in Australia would be any business of the Thai government, except if I was using the income method, which I don't.

[Surelynot]

25 minutes ago, DaLa said:

All Thai women refer to their farang partners as 'Engineers'. I believe Immigration accept that there are 500,000 very wealthy retired engineers out here.

I think my Thai wife frequently refers to me using a different term........????

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

I ALLWAYS write under OCCUPATION: POET

nobody ever complained.

they will not really investigate you. they just need the form filled.

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

I ALLWAYS write under OCCUPATION: POET

nobody ever complained.

they will not really investigate you. they just need the form filled.

A poet?....and they didn't know it.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

Just now, Surelynot said:

A poet?....and they didn't know it.

i am not sure they even know what it means.

most of the officers who check those forms earn 10000-15000 BAHT  a month,

they do not eat properly and their brain do not function efficiently.

they just see something written there and pass it.

[mateusz1945]

12 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I keep hearing about this "stock market" thing. Is it any good? I just have to buy and sell stocks all day long? Could it yield me at least 60k baht in profit, so I could quit my teaching job?

 

I'm already married to a Thai, so I'd just need 40k income to get the Non-O. But 60k would be better.

 

Heck, 100k+ would be better, so I wouldn't have to feel so inadequate around those international school guys at the pubs. Could the stock market do that for me? Thanks guys.

well historically on average you can get about ~8% a year investing in indexes (like snp 500) that is passive and not impressive. People that know what they doing  read news and trade everyday can get more. 20% -30%  some even more. But its a real job and is stressfull 

[mateusz1945]

11 hours ago, swissie said:

There is a fundamental question connected to this thread: Has OP made some money in the past in the stock-market or has he heard from "a friend" that "tons of money can be made in todays stock market" without lifting a finger nor needing any expertise?

 

I am afraid that the latter is the case, otherwise OP would not consider the 400K Baht for a marriage visa worth mentioning in the first place and within this context.

Have met a few guys, arriving with 20K US$, hoping to generate enough income by trading the markets. Sorry, no success stories to tell about.

No wonder. Even top Investement funds are not yielding more than 10% in the long run. So, how much Capital would one need to generate an income of (let's say) 40'000 Bht a month? Assuming that a long-term yield of 10% can be maintained over many years? You do the figureing.

Short term trading? Most serious trading-platforms/brokerages inform their customers that on average roughly 80% of their customers lose money over the long run.

 

As the old saying goes: Thailand is nice if the assets that one has accumulated over time in the "western-world" will suffice.
Thailand does not accomodate undercapitalised "Western-Dreamers". But it does accomodate overcapitalised "Western-Dreamers. For better or for worse. 

 

well this started about job/tax question i never claimed successes or that i will do it for rest of my life.  It is good way  to keep savings and save for retirement. I think eventually i will want to find normal job/business as this will not be enough for a nice lifestyle. So its  more like supplementary income.
BTW there is lot of misconceptions about stock market. There is investing approach and pure gambling. 80% of customers losing money are trading using high levered CFD contracts. high risk/high reward for impatient. for more reasonable people are stocks of established companies and stocks indexes. Cheers

[Fat is a type of crazy]

The only point I would make, which may be irrelevant to your situation in Thailand, is that tax law often differentiates between share investor and share trader. A share investor is someone who tends to buys shares and leave them and maybe buy and sell some from time to time. It is passive income. This may be subject to capital gains tax. It is not a business.

If you actively manage a significant amount of shares, making regular buys and sales, you may be a share trader and this means you are in business. The shares are just like apples to a fruit seller - they are trading stock.

So if you are a share trader it may affect you if there are rules about whether you can be in business. I know nothing though about how the Thai law looks at this.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

I ALLWAYS write under OCCUPATION: POET

nobody ever complained.

they will not really investigate you. they just need the form filled.

You have not been tempted to affix iambic pentameter to the occupation description? Please don't tell me, doggerel.

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The only point I would make, which may be irrelevant to your situation in Thailand, is that tax law often differentiates between share investor and share trader. A share investor is someone who tends to buys shares and leave them and maybe buy and sell some from time to time. It is passive income. This may be subject to capital gains tax. It is not a business.

If you actively manage a significant amount of shares, making regular buys and sales, you may be a share trader and this means you are in business. The shares are just like apples to a fruit seller - they are trading stock.

So if you are a share trader it may affect you if there are rules about whether you can be in business. I know nothing though about how the Thai law looks at this.

The only way Thai law would apply to the OP in terms of shares would be if he is trading in Thai shares. I trade in Australian shares occasionally, any capital gains tax would be collected by the ATO. It's irrelevant if I am doing that share trading online from within Thailand.

[Bluetongue]

26 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The only point I would make, which may be irrelevant to your situation in Thailand, is that tax law often differentiates between share investor and share trader. A share investor is someone who tends to buys shares and leave them and maybe buy and sell some from time to time. It is passive income. This may be subject to capital gains tax. It is not a business.

If you actively manage a significant amount of shares, making regular buys and sales, you may be a share trader and this means you are in business. The shares are just like apples to a fruit seller - they are trading stock.

So if you are a share trader it may affect you if there are rules about whether you can be in business. I know nothing though about how the Thai law looks at this.

I think you're right thats pretty much the Australian tax office ruling on it. Regarding dividends they are well down this year to my chagrin, but I have snapped up a few extra shares so hopefully should even itself out in the longer run. I'm pretty cautious, mainly dividend stocks you can usually get about 5% return on fairly safe ones. Just short term trading a little bit as an interest, but patience is required, both to wait for the falls and the rises.

[PGSan]

1 hour ago, mateusz1945 said:

read news 

Not much help since all the traders do that.  It is interpreting the news (or, better, having private information) that can, but mostly does not, make  you big money.