UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

we can talk about Erasmus too but I was on the energy market: the UK did loose access?

according to the EU No

On energy, the agreement provides a new model for trading and interconnectivity, with guarantees for open and fair competition, including on safety standards for offshore, and production of renewable energy.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2531

 

I know you plan to go through each item but can I suggest that if you feel that the UK has been cheated by the EU that you contact President Macron as let him know that's how you feel

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The withdrawal from Erasmus is mindless vandalism of opportunity for British students and academics.

 

A mind bogglingly stupid thing to do.

As far as I am concerned  the EU Erasmus program is similar to the cult of  the Church of Scientology

[Hi from France]

7 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Now we can speak of something else, Britain is happy,  EU is happy ( I too, happy to belong to EU )

everybody says that a deal is better that a "no deal ", so, it's ok, " la vie continue " 

Although we did reach a climax, there are still many deals to be made in the coming months/years, we just mentioned the criminal/terrorist database the UK just lost access to (but not before hacking the entire base, not very gentlemanly)

 

... and we can assess the effective fallout from effective brexit end of January, 6 months, 1 year

 

 

..and in 5 1/2 years when the fishing quotas stabilize at 75%, we can expect some kind on "internal market bill" then.

 

 

 

Brexit is a gift that keeps on giving

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As far as I am concerned  the EU Erasmus program is similar to the cult of  the Church of Scientology

come on!

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As far as I am concerned  the EU Erasmus program is similar to the cult of  the Church of Scientology

You clearly have no idea what Erasmus is.

 

 

[luckyluke]

31 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well another one of your I am unbiased views although your beliefs.

 

You claim to sit on the fence and then pour your one sided opinion. i think it best you avoid replying to my posts because I will continue to show your unbiased views to be biased,

You are of course entitled to interpret my posts as you wish.

If I feel the need to react to your future posts, I will do it.

I hope you will do the same.

After all this is the purpose of a forum.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

Ok but still look at the UE summary p2

 

 

 

So basically they reached a trade agreement (hard goods) and most services are left out (services of course includes free movement of labour - so not a great surprise they could not come to an agreement).  The UK runs a trade deficit with Europe - which the UK generally is weaker at.... and a surplus in services (which are now at a disadvantage).   Sure the agreement is better than nothing, but it is also not a great agreement...  Sort of sucks to be a small market trying to negotiate with a much larger market... welcome to the real world UK....

Edited December 25, 2020 by bkkcanuck8

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You clearly have no idea what Erasmus is.

 

 

More UK students go to the US and Australia than to all 27 EU countries combined

 Commonly thought of as an exchange programme allowing students to study abroad, we lift the lid on this vastly expensive youth indoctrination project.

 

• UK students using Erasmus+ to study abroad : only 9,615
• Non-UK students using Erasmus+ to study in UK : 18,702
• Almost twice as many EU27 students benefit, compared to UK students

• Erasmus+ is “the EU's programme to support education, training, youth and sport in Europe,” says the EU Commission.

  This new version of Erasmus started in 2014, with a 40% increase in funding and a significant increase in its scope. It is now set to double on top of that.

Erasmus funds and “promotes – among other things – good governance, social inclusion, the fight against racism, dual careers, and physical activity for all.”

1/3rd of the budget goes on “partnerships and reforms of the education and youth sectors”

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_jan_erratic_libdems_on_erasmus#

 

If you choose to have children then you and your partner have  made that lifestyle choice

If you and your partner want to fund your children in further education or university once again that your lifestyle choice so you should fund it not the Uk taxpayer

[baansgr]

10 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

come on!

No more fictional than you posting with a 2 month old profile....wonder what your other one is...I could hazard a guess between 3 or 4????

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

More UK students go to the US and Australia than to all 27 EU countries combined

 Commonly thought of as an exchange programme allowing students to study abroad, we lift the lid on this vastly expensive youth indoctrination project.

 

• UK students using Erasmus+ to study abroad : only 9,615
• Non-UK students using Erasmus+ to study in UK : 18,702
• Almost twice as many EU27 students benefit, compared to UK students

• Erasmus+ is “the EU's programme to support education, training, youth and sport in Europe,” says the EU Commission.

  This new version of Erasmus started in 2014, with a 40% increase in funding and a significant increase in its scope. It is now set to double on top of that.

Erasmus funds and “promotes – among other things – good governance, social inclusion, the fight against racism, dual careers, and physical activity for all.”

1/3rd of the budget goes on “partnerships and reforms of the education and youth sectors”

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_jan_erratic_libdems_on_erasmus#

 

If you choose to have children then you and your partner have  made that lifestyle choice

If you and your partner want to fund your children in further education or university once again that your lifestyle choice so you should fund it not the Uk taxpayer

I see you’ve found Google.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

You are of course entitled to interpret my posts as you wish.

If I feel the need to react to your future posts, I will do it.

I hope you will do the same.

After all this is the purpose of a forum.

It is but I believe in the truth, saying the truth and if making a mistake admitting it.

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I see you’ve found Google.

I would be very worried if he was only writing from what he remembered and did not refer to reference materials... Who would remember the number etc. for some  rather obscure program.

[Hi from France]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

You clearly have no idea what Erasmus is.

yes, I am disappointed at @vinny41

I think you really need to get some information 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/24/uk-students-lose-erasmus-membership-in-brexit-deal

Quote

The omission of Erasmus from the UK-EU deal ends a scheme that had offered student exchanges as well as school links, work experience and apprenticeships across Europe since 1987. Under the latest version of the scheme, Erasmus+, around 200,000 people have taken part including around 15,000 British university students each year.

 

Quote

Adam Tickell, the vice-chancellor of the University of Sussex, said: “Leaving Erasmus is a real sadness, a scheme whose original foundations were laid at Sussex. Over the years the Erasmus programme transformed the lives of thousands of young people.”

 

yep one year in London with Erasmus transformed my life, you can say that. Some here even think I'm British, a thing I find quite flattering ????

 

 

 

back on topic: now for the sunlit uplands

 

Quote

Boris Johnson said the UK would instead establish its own scheme with “the best universities in the world”, to be named after the British computing pioneer Alan Turing. (..) “So what we are doing is producing a UK scheme for students to go around the world,” the prime minister said. “It will be called the Turing scheme, named after Alan Turing, so students will have the opportunity not just to go to European universities but to go to the best universities in the world.

this is pure <deleted>, there are many such programs already

 

 

 

and this new program is outbound only: selected UK students will leave and bring their skills to European/world labs, but most importantly no inbound talented students will feed UK higher education and research 

Quote

The new scheme is not expected to fund students coming to the UK, as Erasmus does now, which suggests British universities will miss out on a source of income.

 

 

so this is a recipe for a self "brain drain" the UK will bleed out its best young minds who have received advanced training in the UK...

 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I see you’ve found Google.

If free university fees is important to you , you could make another lifestyle choice relocated to Scotland or the EU I think you have to be there for 6 months

 

University is free in Scotland, but only if you're a student from Scotland or the EU. If that's you, you won't pay a penny towards tuition fees at Scottish universities – the Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will cover the £1,820 a year for you.

This also means that if you're a Scottish or EU student but you aren't eligible for the fees waiver for whatever reason, you'll still get a much cheaper deal than you would if you studied elsewhere in the UK.

https://www.savethestudent.org/student-finance/finance-system-for-scottish-students.html#:~:text=Is university free in Scotland%3F,-Credit%3A Paramount Pictures&text=University is free in Scotland,1%2C820 a year for you.

 

All found thats to Google 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

yes, I am disappointed at @vinny41

I think you really need to get some information 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/24/uk-students-lose-erasmus-membership-in-brexit-deal

 

 

yep one year in London with Erasmus transformed my life, you can say that. Some here even think I'm British, a thing I find quite flattering ????

 

 

 

back on topic: now for the sunlit uplands

 

this is pure <deleted>, there are many such programs already

 

 

 

and this new program is outbound only: selected UK students will leave and bring their skills to European/world labs, but most importantly no inbound talented students will feed UK higher education and research 

 

 

so this is a recipe for a self "brain drain" the UK will bleed out its best young minds who have received advanced training in the UK...

 

I see the EU had grand plans to double the budget of their Erasmus program  from 14.7 billion euros to 30 billion wonder the EU was keen that the UK  to retain Erasmus membership.

As everyone knows the EU never reduces its budget or scales back it grandeur plans even when they lose a major player  so I guess the remaining 27 members will have to pick up the extra cost

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/budget-may2018-erasmusplus_en_0.pdf

[JonnyF]

I'm pretty happy with what I've read so far.

 

Not perfect but the scales are most definitely tipped on the hard side of Brexit. Very hard. That suits me.

 

I would have preferred No Deal to this deal in principle but I realize that's easy for me to say sat in Thailand. The concessions on fishing ensure continued access to the single market which is good for business. 

 

I think history will show that we got out in the nick of time. The next couple of decades will see the EU go in a direction that I would never want for the UK. I would never wish to be part of a United States of Europe and this ensures that we won't be.

 

The ReJoiners will no doubt continue to snipe from the sidelines but I can live with that as we have escaped the corrupt protectionist racket once and for all. A Wonderful Christmas present. Now, onwards and upwards, I expect trade deals to continue to flow in from the rest of the world. I also expect the EU to become more pragmatic and reasonable now that the deal is done, they can stop all the posturing and chest beating and do what's right for the EU and that is continue to trade with Britain instead of trying to punish us.

[Hi from France]

15 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

So basically they reached a trade agreement (hard goods) and most services are left out (services of course includes free movement of labour - so not a great surprise they could not come to an agreement).  The UK runs a trade deficit with Europe - which the UK generally is weaker at.... and a surplus in services (which are now at a disadvantage).   Sure the agreement is better than nothing, but it is also not a great agreement...  Sort of sucks to be a small market trying to negotiate with a much larger market... welcome to the real world UK....

 

 

indeed the main asset of the UK is services, mainly finance but not only. For example last year we hired a translator. We needed quality work and went for a UK professional.

 

... Now when we asked about Brexit and how we could bill work out the invoice, she answered "I opened my account at 
SNS Bank" as you guess by their slogan Bankieren in jouw belang she had already moved her business out of the UK.

 

 

 

now I'm sure Brexiteers have thought long and hard about the main asset of their country and why it will be very hard to negotiate a service FTA. 

 

This is what the UK has now:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/eu-uk_trade_and_cooperation_agreement-a_new_relationship_with_big_changes-overview_of_consequences_and_benefits.pdf

 

 

 

Now what's your plan guy? You just lost easy access to the huge EU services market

[luckyluke]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

if making a mistake admitting it.

What if one consider he didn't make a mistake?

After all what we discuss here, are interpretations, not facts.

One may of course consider interpretations as facts, but both parties need to be agree on that.

 

Example, if I stated erroneously that the Remainers won the Brexit Referendum, I would immediately apologize.

However I stated that Leavers had different reasons to vote Leave and I gave 4 examples.

I still don't see why I should apologize for this statement. 

 

[vinny41]

30 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Although we did reach a climax, there are still many deals to be made in the coming months/years, we just mentioned the criminal/terrorist database the UK just lost access to (but not before hacking the entire base, not very gentlemanly)

 

... and we can assess the effective fallout from effective brexit end of January, 6 months, 1 year

 

 

..and in 5 1/2 years when the fishing quotas stabilize at 75%, we can expect some kind on "internal market bill" then.

 

 

 

Brexit is a gift that keeps on giving

In 5 years 6 months the EU fishing quota for accessing UK fishing waters will be 0% each year between now and 5 years 6 months the quota will be reduced

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm pretty happy with what I've read so far.

 

Not perfect but the scales are most definitely tipped on the hard side of Brexit. Very hard. That suits me.

 

I would have preferred No Deal to this deal in principle but I realize that's easy for me to say sat in Thailand. The concessions on fishing ensure continued access to the single market which is good for business. 

 

I think history will show that we got out in the nick of time. The next couple of decades will see the EU go in a direction that I would never want for the UK. I would never wish to be part of a United States of Europe and this ensures that we won't be.

 

The ReJoiners will no doubt continue to snipe from the sidelines but I can live with that as we have escaped the corrupt protectionist racket once and for all. A Wonderful Christmas present. Now, onwards and upwards, I expect trade deals to continue to flow in from the rest of the world. I also expect the EU to become more pragmatic and reasonable now that the deal is done, they can stop all the posturing and chest beating and do what's right for the EU and that is continue to trade with Britain instead of trying to punish us.

You should concern yourself more with the direction the UK goes rather than dreaming up a future for the EU.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I wanted a no deal and complete break.

Where are you living? Thailand?

How about a complete break and going back to the UK? Forever. No holiday to any other country anymore. And don't you dare to buy anything from those foreigners. Enjoy your sovereignty!

[Hi from France]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If free university fees is important to you , you could make another lifestyle choice relocated to Scotland or the EU I think you have to be there for 6 months

 

University is free in Scotland, but only if you're a student from Scotland or the EU. If that's you, you won't pay a penny towards tuition fees at Scottish universities – the Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will cover the £1,820 a year for you.

This also means that if you're a Scottish or EU student but you aren't eligible for the fees waiver for whatever reason, you'll still get a much cheaper deal than you would if you studied elsewhere in the UK.

https://www.savethestudent.org/student-finance/finance-system-for-scottish-students.html#:~:text=Is university free in Scotland%3F,-Credit%3A Paramount Pictures&text=University is free in Scotland,1%2C820 a year for you.

I came across that too, means we definitely need to develop cooperation with Scotland instead of English universities

[OneMoreFarang]

I think it's time to lean back and enjoy the show. Let's look how Boris and his supporters will handle the next months and years. I am sure it will be funny to watch from outside how they made their lives worse.

[vinny41]

Just now, Hi from France said:

I came across that too, means we definitely need to develop cooperation with Scotland instead of English universities

Don't worry if Scotland gets its independence and joins the EU I fully expect the EU taxpayer will be paying for Scotland universities and much more.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's time to lean back and enjoy the show. Let's look how Boris and his supporters will handle the next months and years. I am sure it will be funny to watch from outside how they made their lives worse.

They will claim victory, blame it on COVID -- and that strategy may work -- it may not.

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm pretty happy with what I've read so far...

 I like your post, despite I am personally not agree with it.

But it is a clear view of how some here interpret the situation, with an explicit sight of how they see the future.

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Where are you living? Thailand?

How about a complete break and going back to the UK? Forever. No holiday to any other country anymore. And don't you dare to buy anything from those foreigners. Enjoy your sovereignty!

Merry Christmas to you scrooge ????.

 

Seems you are a little angered. Well as you are an EU lover, you like I are thrilled. Except those in the EU will be paying more.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Laughing Gravy

[Hi from France]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

In 5 years 6 months the EU fishing quota for accessing UK fishing waters will be 0% each year between now and 5 years 6 months the quota will be reduced

this is not my understanding

 

what I believe is that EU EEZ quota is the same now as before (let's call it 100%) and will be progressively phased out by -25% (lets call it 75%) in 5 1/2 years.

 

After that date the deal will be renegotiated each year. So "il va y avoir du sport", it will be Brexit all over again, with arbitration, tariffs, the EU threatening retaliations..

 

 

 

UE fishermen keep access to the 6-12 miles (this are territorial waters not just EEZ) until 2026.

 

 

 

 

Belgian fishermen for example have a very small fishing zone: 80% of their catches originate in british zones, so you can imagine what getting from a 75% quota to 0% would do

 

.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Hi from France

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Except those in the EU will be paying more.

That's my main concern, and I am sure for many man in the street in Europe : how much concretely will it cost us.

 

[Hi from France]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Don't worry if Scotland gets its independence and joins the EU I fully expect the EU taxpayer will be paying for Scotland universities and much more.

Why not?

 

Anyway even if the Scots are given a say in their future and even if they vote "yes", Scottish independence is still very far away and a complicated question.