WikiLeaks' Assange denied bail by London court over risk he might abscond again

[tokachinter]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

embarrassment?  Political damage?  How about damage to our security forces?  Showing all sorts of confidential docs.  How about I go to your house and release all your emails, browsing history and pics.  Would that be OK?  No...

 

He broke the law.  That's been proven.  Sad you don't want to follow the rule of law.  Are you an anarchist?

Hello again! So many questions for me. I may have to invoice you for my time ;-). Seriously (and I believe you are serious, Jeffr2 and not trying to wind me up), the answers to many of your questions are in the hearing transcripts (use the link I sent you before) and also those of the U.S. military trial of Chelsea Manning. You could also visit Wikileaks website and read the emails that revealed how the U.S. Government bugged the telephones of the French President & German Chancellor amongst other allies = embarrassment & political damage big time ! By 'damage to our security forces' I presume you mean U.S. military personnel and you are a U.S. citizen? In which case you should be able to get that info from the Pentagon or read Chief Prosecutor Major Ashden Fein's testimony where he named the military personnel harmed by the release of the Iraqi War Logs. Actually, under oath, he could not name a single one, none, zilch, nada. Lastly, you are bit ahead of time, when you say 'he broke the law'. He has been charge under a U.S. indictment but has not had his day in a U.S. court, yet. They still do 'innocent until proven guilty' over there or have I been watching too many U.S. courtroom dramas on TV? 

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, tokachinter said:

Hello again! So many questions for me. I may have to invoice you for my time ;-). Seriously (and I believe you are serious, Jeffr2 and not trying to wind me up), the answers to many of your questions are in the hearing transcripts (use the link I sent you before) and also those of the U.S. military trial of Chelsea Manning. You could also visit Wikileaks website and read the emails that revealed how the U.S. Government bugged the telephones of the French President & German Chancellor amongst other allies = embarrassment & political damage big time ! By 'damage to our security forces' I presume you mean U.S. military personnel and you are a U.S. citizen? In which case you should be able to get that info from the Pentagon or read Chief Prosecutor Major Ashden Fein's testimony where he named the military personnel harmed by the release of the Iraqi War Logs. Actually, under oath, he could not name a single one, none, zilch, nada. Lastly, you are bit ahead of time, when you say 'he broke the law'. He has been charge under a U.S. indictment but has not had his day in a U.S. court, yet. They still do 'innocent until proven guilty' over there or have I been watching too many U.S. courtroom dramas on TV? 

First, what major country doesn't engage in spying?  Answer? NONE.

 

Second. It's all about the law. Break it and there should be consequences.

 

It's up to the courts to decide. Not you and me. Luckily!  LOL

[GrandPapillon]

23 hours ago, Pilotman said:

those who have never served seem to think that war is some kind of kids movie, where people, get shot , fall over, but then go home afterwards , no blood and guts. no innocents killed, just bad troops on the other side.  War is ugly and brutal and people die, lots of them and if you look at the stats for WW2, more civilians in France died after D Day than Allied troops. War is not Disney Land.  Assuage, or whatever his name is (i couldn't even be bothered to find out), told us nothing that thinking people didn't  already know. All he did was put the lives of those who serve, especially in the Security Services, at risk. I hope the US locks him up for ever. 

 

he didn't put anyone in danger by publishing those horrible images, this is an old argument that authoritarians and fascists love to promote to conceal their evil ways

[GrandPapillon]

9 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

First, what major country doesn't engage in spying?  Answer? NONE.

 

Second. It's all about the law. Break it and there should be consequences.

 

It's up to the courts to decide. Not you and me. Luckily!  LOL

How about the CIA and Pentagon breaking laws all the time? you don't seem to have a problem for that ????

 

What about breaking international laws, like the Geneva convention, which is above the US constitution, like all supranational agreements ????

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

he didn't put anyone in danger by publishing those horrible images, this is an old argument that authoritarians and fascists love to promote to conceal their evil ways

I think those who had to go into hiding due to the release of classified info might argue with you here.  He broke the law, sad you are OK with this.

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/712659290/how-much-did-wikileaks-damage-u-s-national-security

"A number of people went into hiding, a number of people had to move, particularly those civilians in war zones who had told U.S. soldiers about movements of the Taliban and al-Qaida," he said. "No doubt some of those people were harmed when their identities were compromised."

 

WikiLeaks has made multiple disclosures over the past decade, including one in March 2017 when the group released what it said were CIA technical documents on a range of spying techniques.

 

This revealed ways that a state-of-the art television could serve as a listening device even when it was turned off.

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

How about the CIA and Pentagon breaking laws all the time? you don't seem to have a problem for that ????

 

What about breaking international laws, like the Geneva convention, which is above the US constitution, like all supranational agreements ????

Deflect from Julian to the CIA.  Wow...hold on!

[Pilotman]

7 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

he didn't put anyone in danger by publishing those horrible images, this is an old argument that authoritarians and fascists love to promote to conceal their evil ways

if that were the case, there could be no extradition. in UKs extradition law, he must have been charged with a crime that is also a crime in the UK and evidence of a Prima Facie case must be presented.  As the judge said as his hearing, that part of the extradition case was correct.  So you and all the other doubters are wrong. He has a case to answer and he should face the court of the US and make his case.  But of course he doesn't want to, because like all leakers, he is a coward. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Pilotman

[tokachinter]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I think those who had to go into hiding due to the release of classified info might argue with you here.  He broke the law, sad you are OK with this.

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/712659290/how-much-did-wikileaks-damage-u-s-national-security

"A number of people went into hiding, a number of people had to move, particularly those civilians in war zones who had told U.S. soldiers about movements of the Taliban and al-Qaida," he said. "No doubt some of those people were harmed when their identities were compromised."

 

WikiLeaks has made multiple disclosures over the past decade, including one in March 2017 when the group released what it said were CIA technical documents on a range of spying techniques.

 

This revealed ways that a state-of-the art television could serve as a listening device even when it was turned off.

Thanks for the link. "No doubt..." says the U.S. State Department spokesman. While I don't expect names to be publicised, I wonder why some cases or even approximate numbers have never even been quantified? In fact, I have read of only one case cited in sworn testimony. It was of a man who fled back to Ethiopia to avoid retribution for being an informant in Iraq.                                                                                                                            Now, let's look at some of the lives saved by Wikileaks' journalism. One example is their release of the Afghan War Logs including the drone attacks on tribal villages. One result of this publication was the change in U.S. army rules of engagement regarding their usage. No longer would drone missiles be launched at wedding parties or family gatherings ( a war crime). Well, I value all life, informer, traitor or bride, however some are actively risking their lives for personal gain while others are innocent victims. Wikileaks' action saved innocent lives.  

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, tokachinter said:

Wikileaks' action saved innocent lives.  

And killed innocent people who were passing info to us about the actions of our adversaries.  I think this is more important.

[GrandPapillon]

9 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Deflect from Julian to the CIA.  Wow...hold on!

The US Army broke the laws by committing crimes against civilians by negligence, or worse, incompetence and somehow you are ok with that ? ????

[GrandPapillon]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

And killed innocent people who were passing info to us about the actions of our adversaries.  I think this is more important.

right, what about the innocent people who were killed when the US was acting on the wrong info? how is it more important?

 

are you saying the life of an American soldier is worth more than a life of an Afghan civilian?

[Jeffr2]

54 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

The US Army broke the laws by committing crimes against civilians by negligence, or worse, incompetence and somehow you are ok with that ? ????

No. I'm 100% against ALL wars. The bs in the middle east is ridiculous. But as they say, 2 wrongs don't make a right. There's a legal indictment and he should man up and face the music.

[spiekerjozef]

On 1/8/2021 at 7:07 AM, Jeffr2 said:

This revealed ways that a state-of-the art television could serve as a listening device even when it was turned off.

Not my black & white TV (Ohhh I hope I didn't offend anybody)

[Sujo]

On 1/8/2021 at 10:59 AM, Pilotman said:

if that were the case, there could be no extradition. in UKs extradition law, he must have been charged with a crime that is also a crime in the UK and evidence of a Prima Facie case must be presented.  As the judge said as his hearing, that part of the extradition case was correct.  So you and all the other doubters are wrong. He has a case to answer and he should face the court of the US and make his case.  But of course he doesn't want to, because like all leakers, he is a coward. 

Ellsberg and deep throat were cowards?

Edited January 9, 2021 by Sujo

[Sujo]

19 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

No. I'm 100% against ALL wars. The bs in the middle east is ridiculous. But as they say, 2 wrongs don't make a right. There's a legal indictment and he should man up and face the music.

Well i think he will have no choice. But he is fully entitled to go through the legal process.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Well i think he will have no choice. But he is fully entitled to go through the legal process.

And if he had done this in the first place, he'd be out by now. If he ever even would have gone to jail!  Ridiculous what he's done.  Coward.

[Sujo]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

And if he had done this in the first place, he'd be out by now. If he ever even would have gone to jail!  Ridiculous what he's done.  Coward.

Not sure he would be out by now.

Maybe halfway through it though.

 

Then again, he may have been pardoned like manning.

[tokachinter]

On 1/9/2021 at 2:22 PM, Jeffr2 said:

And if he had done this in the first place, he'd be out by now. If he ever even would have gone to jail!  Ridiculous what he's done.  Coward.

Hi again, Jeffr2. I note that you are still insisting that this Australian is a coward for not surrendering himself to U.S. authorities while living in the U.K. for them to try him in U.S.A. This extra-national policing while not respecting other countries' laws is what contributes to the poor image of your country held by many.  

 

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, tokachinter said:

Hi again, Jeffr2. I note that you are still insisting that this Australian is a coward for not surrendering himself to U.S. authorities while living in the U.K. for them to try him in U.S.A. This extra-national policing while not respecting other countries' laws is what contributes to the poor image of your country held by many.  

 

Asking for extradition is 'respecting other countries' laws'.

[Jeffr2]

17 hours ago, tokachinter said:

Hi again, Jeffr2. I note that you are still insisting that this Australian is a coward for not surrendering himself to U.S. authorities while living in the U.K. for them to try him in U.S.A. This extra-national policing while not respecting other countries' laws is what contributes to the poor image of your country held by many.  

 

He broke the law. Man up and deal with the consequences.

Edited January 11, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[Sujo]

16 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

He broke the law. Man up and deal with the consequences.

To be fair he is only charged, so he hasnt broken any law. Just accused of it.

 

To be correct you can say he has been charged and is in jail going through the legal process. Unless you dont think an accused deserves due process.

[Credo]

4 hours ago, Sujo said:

To be fair he is only charged, so he hasnt broken any law. Just accused of it. And i dont think his cat is in jail with him.

 

To be correct you can say he has been charged and is in jail going through the legal process. Unless you dont think an accused deserves due process.

I think he became a bona fide criminal when he jumped bail.

 

[GrandPapillon]

make no mistake, Assange is a political prisoner, and the UK is complicity of that injustice

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

make no mistake, Assange is a political prisoner, and the UK is complicity of that injustice

UK is following international law.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

make no mistake, Assange is a political prisoner, and the UK is complicity of that injustice

Don't understand the law much?

[tifino]

Scomo has already announced our hero ozpatriot is welcome back to OZ with open arms.

Trouble is we would relatively soon then be left open to being fed to the CCP wolves, who are already circling in wait for our shields to be taken away as a punishment

[tokachinter]

14 hours ago, stevenl said:

Asking for extradition is 'respecting other countries' laws'.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was commenting on the U.S. government's unilateral actions in general around the world to try to explain to Jeffr2 that his view that his country is the world's policeman is incorrect. You are correct that, in the Julian Assange case, the U.S. is utilising the U.K.-U.S. extradition agreement. At the same time, in the Harry Dunne case, they are disregarding the very same agreement by refusing to even hold an extradition hearing for the U.S. citizen who fled the U.K. after an act on U.K. soil for which she faces manslaughter charges.     

[onthedarkside]

A post linking to a non-credible source, and a reply, have been removed.