Trump faces calls for removal, possible impeachment after Capitol chaos

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Democrats Demand Answers from Justice Dept. About Trump's role as Impeachment Threat Looms

 

Jan. 10, 2021, 3:04 a.m.

House Democrats intend to introduce an article of impeachment on Monday charging President Trump with “willfully inciting violence against the government of the United States.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/09/us/trump-biden

 

G.O.P. Senator Patrick Toomey says Trump ‘committed impeachable offenses.’

Senator Patrick J. Toomey, Republican of Pennsylvania, said on Saturday that President Trump had “committed impeachable offenses,” a sign of growing anger over Mr. Trump’s role in the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol building.

 

Mr. Toomey’s remarks came as Democrats are preparing to bring articles of impeachment to the House floor as early as Monday over Mr. Trump’s role in inciting a violent mob attack on the Capitol this week.

 

“I do think the president committed impeachable offenses,” Mr. Toomey told “The Journal Editorial Report” on Fox News.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/09/us/trump-biden#gop-senator-patrick-toomey-says-trump-committed-impeachable-offenses

 

 

The NY Times report finally addressed the disqualification from office issue, and their take seems to be that it would be a majority Senate vote that could only come AFTER a 2/3rd vote for impeachment....  The different views on this are confusing...

 

"Some of Mr. Trump’s critics argued that it would be important to hold a trial even if he is already out of power in order to bar him from ever seeking office again, a penalty envisioned by the Constitution.

 

The Constitution specifically provides for the Senate to bar anyone convicted from holding federal office in the future, a secondary penalty that can be approved in a separate vote but requires only a simple majority of 51 senators rather than two-thirds. The Senate has applied this penalty to impeached judges in the past."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/09/us/trump-biden#gop-senator-patrick-toomey-says-trump-committed-impeachable-offenses

Edited January 10, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mavideol]

11 minutes ago, J Town said:

The Senate has nothing to do with the impeachment. Their role is the subsequent removal from office. Articles of impeachments are scheduled for Monday with a congressional vote Wednesday. Pelosi has already promised the impeachment unless the loser-in-chief resigns. RESIGNS! 555!!

He will never give up, that's his modo   ( "modo" in English is way )  555

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, J Town said:

The Senate has nothing to do with the impeachment. Their role is the subsequent removal from office. Articles of impeachments are scheduled for Monday with a congressional vote Wednesday. Pelosi has already promised the impeachment unless the loser-in-chief resigns. RESIGNS! 555!!

 

The House decides whether to vote articles of impeachment. Then the Senate has to decide whether or not to convict on the articles of impeachment, by a 2/3rds vote.

 

[cmarshall]

7 minutes ago, crobe said:

This is the crux of the argument and you are quite right to point it out.

From my reading of the articles of the senate, the requirement is for a super-majority for a conviction (whether that is 67 senators or a super-majority of those present is not clear to me), but only after the conviction could any sentence be pronounced

It is possible that a simple majority could then be enough for disbarment from future public office 

 

It doesn't look that way to me.  Frankly, the Constitution only mentions removal from office after a conviction not any other kind of punishment such as disqualification from future office holding.  So, I wonder if disqualification from office is actually constitutional.  But the Senate has clearly imposed disqualification in the cases of a couple of judges who were impeached and convicted establishing precedent.  But since the Impeachment clause does not mention disqualification where would be the requirement that conviction is required before disqualification can be applied.  Also, the voting requirements are completely different: two-thirds vs a simple majority.  There doesn't seem to be any text linking the conviction to disqualification.  And since conviction is required for removal, but after the end of Trump's term of office, removal is no longer applicable, I don't see the case for the requirement of conviction at all.

Edited January 10, 2021 by cmarshall

[J Town]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The House decides whether to vote articles of impeachment. Then the Senate has to decide whether or not to convict on the articles of impeachment, by a 2/3rds vote.

 

Remember 45's LAST impeachment? Congress impeaches. That sticks to the wall, a permanent stain. He will be impeached, probably by Wednesday, most certainly by Friday. There's a lot of steam behind this engine.

[Susco]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The Post article you link above seems to envision the possibility of a Senate impeachment trial for Trump commencing AFTER his term as president has expired.

 

In that case, since removal from office would not longer be possible, the only other thing that would be possible is a future ban on holding any federal office -- which might be allowed via a simple Senate majority vote.... if you read the info posted above.

 

"On Jan. 20 or 21, the Senate would proceed to consideration of the impeachment articles at 1 p.m., and officially begin the trial. McConnell’s memo noted that the “Senate trial would therefore begin after President Trump’s term has expired — either one hour after its expiration on January 20, or twenty-five hours after its expiration on January 21.”
 

There is also a question of who exactly would preside over a trial of a former president. Senate impeachment rules require Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. preside over a trial of a sitting president, but whether he would have to once Trump is no longer president is “unclear,” the memo said."

 

 

 

Senate impeachment trial could begin one hour after Trump leaves office, says top Republican Congressman

 

https://news.yahoo.com/senate-impeachment-trial-could-begin-201637194.html

 

 

 

 

Mr McConnell said: “The Senate trial would therefore begin after President Trump’s term has expired...one hour after its expiration on Jan 20."

It came as Republicans in Congress began to turn against Mr Trump. Two-thirds of the Senate need to vote to convict Mr Trump.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Susco

[Walker88]

Ten days to impeach the guy.....

 

 

.......and on the 11th day the New York AG has a clear path to indict him.

 

If he self-pardons, odds are that does not hold up in court, so he'd be liable for Federal crimes plus what the New York AG can stick on him.

 

If he resigns and hopes pence pardons him, the day he resigns the New York AG has that clear path to indict him.

 

It's not looking too pretty for 45.

 

The family is beginning to look a lot like the Borgias, albeit without the brains. 45, jr wants to run in 2024. Daughter wants to primary marco rubio for the Senate in 2022, then run for POTUS in 2024. They will eat each other.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, it sounds like the two new Dem. U.S. senators from Georgia have the possibility to be sworn in just a few days after Biden becomes president:

 

https://www.ajc.com/politics/when-can-ossoff-and-warnock-be-sworn-in-after-georgia-senate-runoffs/PAYAJGFMCBCDZNDGGZFFQQGV2E/

 

"Georgia law gives Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger 17 days after the election, until Jan. 22, to certify the results.

 

A recount in runoffs appears unlikely. State law gives losing candidates a right to a recount if they trail by less than half a percentage point, but Warnock’s and Ossoff’s leads exceed that threshold. Each Democrat was winning his runoff by more than a 1% margin as of Friday."

 

For the Republican former incumbents, Perdue is already out of the Senate, his term having expired Jan 3. Loeffler remains in the Senate until her replacement is sworn in.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

 

Senate impeachment trial could begin one hour after Trump leaves office, says top Republican Congressman

 

https://news.yahoo.com/senate-impeachment-trial-could-begin-201637194.html

 

Though once Trump is already out of office, why wouldn't they want the Senate part of the process to wait until the two Georgia new Democratic senators are sworn in?  Unless they want to spare them having to make that vote as new electees from 51-49% Georgia....

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, J Town said:

Remember 45's LAST impeachment? Congress impeaches. That sticks to the wall, a permanent stain. He will be impeached, probably by Wednesday, most certainly by Friday. There's a lot of steam behind this engine.

 

Yes, the House impeachment stands on the record and for history, no matter what the Senate later does. But in terms of practical consequences like removing from office or banning from future federal office, those require Senate action.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[J Town]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, the House impeachment stands on the record and for history, no matter what the Senate does. But in terms of practical consequences like removing from office or banning from future federal office, those require Senate action.

 

I believe there's more of an appetite from Senators to beg, borrow or steal a spine in this case.

[crobe]

17 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

It doesn't look that way to me.  Frankly, the Constitution only mentions removal from office after a conviction not any other kind of punishment such as disqualification from future office holding.  So, I wonder if disqualification from office is actually constitutional.  But the Senate has clearly imposed disqualification in the cases of a couple of judges who were impeached and convicted establishing precedent.  But since the Impeachment clause does not mention disqualification where would be the requirement that conviction is required before disqualification can be applied.  Also, the voting requirements are completely different: two-thirds vs a simple majority.  There doesn't seem to be any text linking the conviction to disqualification.  And since conviction is required for removal, but after the end of Trump's term of office, removal is no longer applicable, I don't see the case for the requirement of conviction at all.

Actually it does, the text is

"“judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.”

This is of course after the conviction

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Or to prevent impeachment, and thereby keeping a Trump run in 2024 open?

 

Even if they turfed out Trump now using the 25th Amendment, which seems unlikely given everything I'm hearing, the House could still impeach him and apparently even hold a trial in the Senate after Trump's already out of office... At that point, the only potential penalty would be a ban on holding any future federal office.  So I don't think any 25th Amendment action would prevent an impeachment action.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, crobe said:

If it turns out that Trump did indeed delay the deployment then it is damning

 

There was specific news reporting the day of the incident and the next day that Trump that afternoon had been asked by aides to authorize calling up the National Guard, and he resisted/declined to do it, saying the protests were peaceful and those were his people, etc etc...

 

In the end, it finally fell to Pence to do it, considerably later.

 

[Mavideol]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There was specific news reporting the day of the incident and the next day that Trump that afternoon had been asked by aides to authorize calling up the National Guard, and he resisted/declined to do it, saying the protests were peaceful and those were his people, etc etc...

 

In the end, it finally fell to Pence to do it, considerably later.

 

but the peaceful protests for BLM were faced with tear gas, gear riot and there was no delay in deploying the guards, what a bigotry the guy is and yet millions of US citizens still back him

[polpott]

41 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

 

Senate impeachment trial could begin one hour after Trump leaves office, says top Republican Congressman

 

https://news.yahoo.com/senate-impeachment-trial-could-begin-201637194.html

 

 

 

 

Mr McConnell said: “The Senate trial would therefore begin after President Trump’s term has expired...one hour after its expiration on Jan 20."

It came as Republicans in Congress began to turn against Mr Trump. Two-thirds of the Senate need to vote to convict Mr Trump.

 

 

 

I think McConnell is missing one simple fact. When the senate reconvenes on the 19th, the Democrats will hold the senate, he will be the minority leader and VP Harris is entitled to preside over proceedings, thus she sets the agenda. She'll have his little orange testicles hanging from the Senate rafters before sundown.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, polpott said:

I think McConnell is missing one simple fact. When the senate reconvenes on the 19th, the Democrats will hold the senate, he will be the minority leader and VP Harris is entitled to preside over proceedings, thus she sets the agenda. She'll have his little orange testicles hanging from the Senate rafters before sundown.

With the 2 georgia senators being installed after the 19th, is this correct?

[polpott]

Just now, stevenl said:

With the 2 georgia senators being installed after the 19th, is this correct?

My assumption is that they will be installed on the 19th when the Senate reconvenes.

[Susco]

20 minutes ago, polpott said:

I think McConnell is missing one simple fact. When the senate reconvenes on the 19th, the Democrats will hold the senate, he will be the minority leader and VP Harris is entitled to preside over proceedings, thus she sets the agenda. She'll have his little orange testicles hanging from the Senate rafters before sundown.

 

Going by the article posted by another member, those Georgia senators will not be sworn in the day after Trump has departed.

 

That said, the start of the trial is not the same day as that will be voted, and I have such a feeling that Mitch and many other republicans want to get rid of some toxic waste anyway.

[stevenl]

22 minutes ago, polpott said:

My assumption is that they will be installed on the 19th when the Senate reconvenes.

I don't think so. Latest day they have to be installed is the 22nd, I don't think the Republicans in Georgia, who have to do the certification, will see any reason to do it before that date.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Ohh dear... when Trump sees this, he'll have to know he's a goner....

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-10/schwarzenegger-tells-trump-he-is-terminated-bams-reports

 

Arnold Schwarzenegger Tells President Trump He Is ‘Terminated’

 

"(Bloomberg) -- Arnold Schwarzenegger offered his trademark parting message to Donald Trump after last week’s storming of the U.S. Capitol by the president’s supporters: “You are terminated, Mr. President,” Schwarzenegger told Germany’s Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

 

The former California governor and Hollywood action star, a native of Austria, said the scenes from the Capitol saddened him. “That’s not our America. That’s not my America,” he said.

 

Schwarzenegger, a Republican, wrote a piece for the Economist the day before last week’s tumult, saying Trump needed to end his “stupid, crazy and evil” ploy to cling to power. He told Bild am Sonntag that he had spent time with Trump, but never seen him acting as he recently has been."

 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Ohh dear... when Trump sees this, he'll have to know he's a goner....

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-10/schwarzenegger-tells-trump-he-is-terminated-bams-reports

 

Arnold Schwarzenegger Tells President Trump He Is ‘Terminated’

 

"(Bloomberg) -- Arnold Schwarzenegger offered his trademark parting message to Donald Trump after last week’s storming of the U.S. Capitol by the president’s supporters: “You are terminated, Mr. President,” Schwarzenegger told Germany’s Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

 

The former California governor and Hollywood action star, a native of Austria, said the scenes from the Capitol saddened him. “That’s not our America. That’s not my America,” he said.

 

Schwarzenegger, a Republican, wrote a piece for the Economist the day before last week’s tumult, saying Trump needed to end his “stupid, crazy and evil” ploy to cling to power. He told Bild am Sonntag that he had spent time with Trump, but never seen him acting as he recently has been."

 

And Trump replied, "I'll be back".

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Trump Plans Defiant Final Week as Many Democrats Urge His Ouster

...

Trump plans to run out the clock on his four years in office by highlighting what he believes are his biggest accomplishments, including the barrier his administration built on at least part of the U.S. border with Mexico. A trip to Alamo, Texas, near the border is expected on Tuesday, a White House spokesman said.

 

Trump is also preparing at least one more round of pardons, and will try a final time to advance his administration’s effort to bring Big Tech to heel, the people said, though it isn’t clear what he may do.

 

In sum, it’s a last-ditch attempt to rehabilitate Trump’s legacy after his supporters stormed the Capitol on Wednesday, resulting in five deaths including that of a Capitol Police officer.

 

https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/trump-plans-defiant-final-week-as-many-democrats-urge-his-ouster

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Pence Will Break With Trump and Attend Biden-Harris Inauguration

 

"WASHINGTON — Vice President Mike Pence will attend the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, breaking ranks with President Donald Trump, who said that he wouldn’t attend.

 

Mr. Pence plans to be at the Jan. 20 event, according to two people familiar with his plans who asked not to be identified discussing internal deliberations. Mr. Trump, in the final tweet before his account was suspended by Twitter on Friday, said that he “will not be going to the Inauguration.”

 

On Wednesday, the vice president defied Mr. Trump’s call to overturn the election and instead fulfilled his ceremonial duty to preside over Congress’s acceptance of the Electoral College results."

 

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2021/01/09/Pence-will-break-with-Trump-and-attend-Biden-Harris-inauguration/stories/202101090092

 

 

[placeholder]

Say what you will about Donald Trump, he did have flags lowered to half staff and he did reach out to the family of the police officer who was killed...oh wait a minute..

 

Trump has not lowered flags in honor of an officer who died from injuries sustained amid the riot.

 

President Trump has not ordered the flags on federal buildings to fly at half-staff in honor of Brian D. Sicknick, a police officer who was killed after trying to fend off pro-Trump loyalists during the siege at the Capitol on Wednesday.

While the flags at the Capitol have been lowered, Mr. Trump has not issued a similar order for federal buildings under his control...

Mr. Trump has not reached out to Mr. Sicknick’s family, although Vice President Mike Pence called to offer condolences, an aide to Mr. Pence said.

Democrats Demand Answers From Justice Dept. About Trump’s Role as Impeachment Threat Looms - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[IraqRon]

This is what I was refering to early on in this story.  How he could be banned from office forever with a simple majority vote.

Senate Majority Leader Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has said an impeachment trial could not begin under the current calendar before Inauguration Day, Jan. 20.

Clyburn said that Pelosi "will make the determination as when is the best time” to send articles of impeachment to the Senate if and when they are passed by the House.

Another idea being was to have a separate vote that would prevent Trump from ever holding office again. That could potentially only need a simple majority vote of 51 senators, unlike impeachment, in which two-thirds of the 100-member Senate must support a conviction.

I hope posting this ok, if not then delete it, the only reason for it is clarificaton of my earlier post.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-republican-says-trump-committed-050957880.html

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by IraqRon
to add the site address

[skorp13]

On 1/9/2021 at 7:52 AM, J Town said:

This impeachment could prevent a 2024 run for this traitor. Money well spent in my opinion.

He will be too old nd the country will have changed too much over the next 4 years, nothing to worry about. if he does run and you don't like him.....don't vote for him. It's that simple

[Jeffr2]

27 minutes ago, skorp13 said:

He will be too old nd the country will have changed too much over the next 4 years, nothing to worry about. if he does run and you don't like him.....don't vote for him. It's that simple

Impeachment vote is Wednesday.  The articles have been drawn up.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/house-articles-of-impeachment/index.html

[GrandPapillon]

don't think they will achieve anything with that impeachment, the Republicans have more to lose voting along, same with some Democrats, they will be on the losing end,

 

what a way to start a new administration that promised to "unite" everyone, instead it will create a bigger "division"

 

the funny thing is nobody is talking about Biden, while it should be the star of the show

 

I suspect the next 4 years are going to be about Trump, and not Biden ????

Edited January 12, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[placeholder]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

I suspect the next 4 years are going to be about Trump, and not Biden ????

Dubious. Trump wil be eclipsed as legislative issues and crises come to the fore. Trump supporters seem to forget that the reason Trump gets paid so much attention is that he happens to be President of the United Sates.