Guatemalan forces clash with migrant caravan, Biden team seeks to halt exodus

[kingdong]

59 minutes ago, Scott said:

Historically, it has been the conservatives that have wanted larger numbers of immigrants.  They are a source of cheap, readily available labor.   When limits are set on the number of immigrants, it's usually businesses which want the numbers increased, but those are often for skilled people.  Silicon Valley, for example, requested the number of immigrants from India be increased.  

When economic times are less certain, immigrants are less welcome.  

I think, however, we digress on a number of issues.   First, people who enter illegally and do not present themselves with an asylum claim will face deportation.   From the Obama administration and certainly through the Trump administration, the attitude toward ILLEGAL immigrants has not been particularly warm.  I doubt that it is going to warm much under Biden, however, I expect he will not take action that are generally deemed as cruel.  

 

For those with a credible asylum claim, we can only hope that they will get a fair hearing and a speedy one.   Long waits cause problems, people get married, have children and then deportation becomes problematic.  

 

I have screened people who were wealthy and I have screened people who were poor.  Their financial status was not a factor; the voracity of their claim was.  

 

And just to be clear, the number of people screened in as refugees was relatively small.   The number denied claims was high.  

 

A good insight into the asylum system in the states to which i must admit had no former knowledge of  so.can only comment on the immigration scene in britain,it is now getting out of hand with dinghy loads of illegal immigrants crossing the english channel while the french authorities seem to turn a blind eye.once here they are detained ( or should be) in over crowded centres but a lot are released and told to report and then disappear..after ww2 and the russian iron curtaln asylum laws were bought out where a refugee would be given asylum in the first safe country they set foot in,whats happened however is a lot of migrants,genuine as well as economic head for the uk as our welfare system is far more than what they would recieve in france or germany,however frances and germanys benefits to their own citizens are far more generous than the uks.as always in society its the abusers of such immigation legislation that spoil it for the genuine refugees.there is a very big differance in a genuine refugee and an economic migrant,you have probably forgotten more about immigration than i will ever learn so this post isn,t a dig at you,just a uk residents viewpoint.

Edited January 20, 2021 by kingdong

[Enzian]

One of the reasons the French don't try to stop the small boats to England is there have been cases where the French coast guard has tried to stop them in open waters, and the men on board tell them if you try we will capsize the boat and drown the children. It's up to you.

[Scott]

4 minutes ago, kingdong said:

A good insight into the asylum system in the states to which i must admit had no former knowledge of  so.can only comment on the immigration scene in britain,it is now getting out of hand with dinghy loads of illegal immigrants crossing the english channel while the french authorities seem to turn a blind eye.once here they are detained ( or should be) in over crowded centres but a lot are released and told to report and then disappear..after ww2 and the russian iron curtaln asylum laws were bought out where a refugee would be given asylum in the first safe country they set foot in,whats happened however is a lot of migrants,genuine as well as economic head for the uk as our welfare system is far more than what they would recieve in france or germany,however frances and germanys benefits to their own citizens are far more generous than the uks.as always in society its the abusers of such immigation legislation that spoil it for the genuine refugees.there is a very big differance in a genuine refugee and an economic migrant,you have probably forgotten more about immigration than i will ever learn so this post isn,t a dig at you,just a uk residents viewpoint.

Well, you are actually bringing up a whole different problem and that has to do with people who can't easily be returned to their country of origin.   That was certainly the case with the people fleeing Syria.   Many of them might not be actual refugees but would instead be considered as displaced people.  Most people fleeing war zones are not technically 'persecuted', they are simply not able to live in their country due to war (many also can't because of their political leanings).  

I am not familiar enough with the situation in France, but if they aren't a refugee there, then they should be returned and if they can't be returned, then they should be given temporary status to stay in the country.  

Some asylum seekers simply can't be returned to a country for a variety of reasons, including some countries that refuse to allow them back.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Went into a hospital to see my father a few years ago.  Asked to see his nurse, who's name I couldn't remember.  I just said she was Asian.  The staff member at the front desk laughed and said "that's about all of them!".

While I'm not familiar with the current nursing situation in the US, western people are reluctant to go into nursing because it now costs a lot to get qualified ( I was lucky and trained in a hospital- got paid to work and trained in a sort of apprenticeship system. No way I'd have done it through university ) and the return ( wages ) on cost of becoming qualified is too low.

Plus, the legal situation in the US for medical staff is crazy bad.

Also, the patients are becoming "unpleasant" to work with ( I'd never ever go work on a ward again ), and bullying from other nurses, especially managers, was terrible when I was nursing.

 

IMO that's why nurses have to be imported from countries that do have a lot of nurses wanting better pay ( I went overseas to work as wages at home were pathetic ). Countries like the Philippines train a lot of nurses that go overseas so they can support their families at home. I worked with many from the Philippines- excellent nurses, but they'd rather have been with their families at home.

 

I doubt any in the caravan from Honduras are trained nurses as they could probably easily get employed in the US, as long as they speak English well, and can pass the examination.

[jaideedave]

On 1/18/2021 at 1:59 PM, EVENKEEL said:

I'm sure they've been groomed on what to say and expect from the generous gringos. Working won't be mandatory once they enter the system. 

Its happening now in Canada.Theres an unofficial border crossing at the Quebec/New York border called Roxham Rd.They arrive by the busload from any and every <deleted>hole country you care to name. They've already landed in the USA. Welfare cheques waiting,free medical card,housing,education,it goes on and on.They can even apply to have other family members join them will awaiting a ruling on their legal status.

Virtually unvetted. What a <deleted> up! Thanks to our Prime Minister. (Turdo)

[kingdong]

50 minutes ago, Scott said:

Well, you are actually bringing up a whole different problem and that has to do with people who can't easily be returned to their country of origin.   That was certainly the case with the people fleeing Syria.   Many of them might not be actual refugees but would instead be considered as displaced people.  Most people fleeing war zones are not technically 'persecuted', they are simply not able to live in their country due to war (many also can't because of their political leanings).  

I am not familiar enough with the situation in France, but if they aren't a refugee there, then they should be returned and if they can't be returned, then they should be given temporary status to stay in the country.  

Some asylum seekers simply can't be returned to a country for a variety of reasons, including some countries that refuse to allow them back.

 

Believe you me it isn,t that simple,a migrant ( for word economy will use this word to encompass any illegal immigrant regardless of status) isn,t that easy to send back,a close relative of mine was actually a guard working for group 4 who were contracted to deport illegals back to their own country,this will involve putting deportee on a commercial airline with guards while most go peaceably a few will cause a load of trouble before the plane has even taken off hoping the captain will refuse to take deportee as it could endanger the safety of the plane,they also got " dirty protests"they,ve also been ready to take off when a high court writ would be presented and they had to get off the plane,also migrants will deliberately dispose of their passports making it extremely difficult to ascertain their country of citizenship.the case of the migrants from france is an interesting one as they appear to not be french citizens,they,re not wanted in france,so why should france take them back?one things for certain a clear line must be drawn between genuine refugees and economic migrants and the outdated asylum laws must be reviewed.especially as britain has now left the eu.

Edited January 20, 2021 by kingdong

[Jeffr2]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

<snip>

 

I doubt any in the caravan from Honduras are trained nurses as they could probably easily get employed in the US, as long as they speak English well, and can pass the examination.

Guaranteed.  But they will be available for the hundreds of jobs white Americans don't want.  NO arguing about that. 

 

Speaking English well has nothing to do with this. 

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

You are now posting false information.   Do you really think that the people doing the screening don't know how to ascertain the credibility of a claim?   They do.   They know about specific conditions in the country of origin.  It takes about 15 minutes at most to screen a liar out.  

It's no more difficult than a police interrogation and the police can't pretty quickly figure out who's telling the truth and who isn't.  

 

In the US, at least, unless they are granted refugee status, they are not eligible for any gov't assistance programs.  

 

You can't prove my claim false that before crossing border they've been groomed on best responses to questions asked. Much like the Vietnamese refugees were schooled on how to maximize their benefits.

[Scott]

27 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Believe you me it isn,t that simple,a migrant ( for word economy will use this word to encompass any illegal immigrant regardless of status) isn,t that easy to send back,a close relative of mine was actually a guard working for group 4 who were contracted to deport illegals back to their own country,this will involve putting deportee on a commercial airline with guards while most go peaceably a few will cause a load of trouble before the plane has even taken off hoping the captain will refuse to take deportee as it could endanger the safety of the plane,they also got " dirty protests"they,ve also been ready to take off when a high court writ would be presented and they had to get off the plane,also migrants will deliberately dispose of their passports making it extremely difficult to ascertain their country of citizenship.the case of the migrants from france is an interesting one as they appear to not be french citizens,they,re not wanted in france,so why should france take them back?one things for certain a clear line must be drawn between genuine refugees and economic migrants and the outdated asylum laws must be reviewed.

The refugee laws were written for a different time.   Overall, I think they are pretty good, but that doesn't mean that a view toward the present and the future isn't warranted.  

The destruction of papers, passports is largely a myth.  You can't even apply for asylum if you are from nowhere.   Forced deportations should not be carried out on commercial airlines.   In my experience, most people, once screened out with no chance of remaining, will agree to return.   My limited experience with forced repatriations was of screened out Vietnamese asylum seekers who were deported on specially chartered flights.  

 

Again, it's important to get people screened and resettled or returned quickly before they start a new life.  

 

[Scott]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

You can't prove my claim false that before crossing border they've been groomed on best responses to questions asked. Much like the Vietnamese refugees were schooled on how to maximize their benefits.

That is wrong.  They have no idea what is going to be asked and very few of them have a clue as to what will amount to persecution.  A sad, tragic story won't quite do it.  

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You can't prove my claim false that before crossing border they've been groomed on best responses to questions asked. Much like the Vietnamese refugees were schooled on how to maximize their benefits.

You said working won't be mandatory after arrival.  Shows your complete lack of knowledge about why they are doing this.  They're hungry, abused, and just want a good life.  They are very hard workers and very good people.

 

Sad some think otherwise, brainwashed by Fox News, et al.

[Scott]

Post from unapproved sources have been removed.  An old opinion piece with false information is not permitted.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Guaranteed.  But they will be available for the hundreds of jobs white Americans don't want.  NO arguing about that. 

 

Speaking English well has nothing to do with this. 

LOL. The speaking English comment was referring to being accepted as a nurse in the US. Even I had to pass an English test when I sat the CGFNS exam.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The speaking English comment was referring to being accepted as a nurse in the US. Even I had to pass an English test when I sat the CGFNS exam.

Understood.  Apologies!!!!

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Understood.  Apologies!!!!

Thanks for that.

I did think of going to the US to work as a nurse and passed the CGFNS exam, but went to Saudi instead because I didn't have to sit any exams, there was no requirement for expensive insurance, accommodation was included and the pay was excellent.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for that.

I did think of going to the US to work as a nurse and passed the CGFNS exam, but went to Saudi instead because I didn't have to sit any exams, there was no requirement for expensive insurance, accommodation was included and the pay was excellent.

An excellent choice and a great opportunity to explore another part of the world.  More Americans need to do this.  IMHO.

[thaibeachlovers]

31 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

An excellent choice and a great opportunity to explore another part of the world.  More Americans need to do this.  IMHO.

Many American nurses work(ed) in Saudi. Lots in my hospital. Most were great people and fun to be around. Unfortunately the religious police didn't allow relationships ( outside marriage ) or mixed parties, so there wasn't much of a social life outside work. The only reason western nurses I knew stayed longer than the initial contract was for the money, which was excellent. I did get to explore the world though, and the country itself was amazing. If not for the religious police it would have been the perfect job.

[Jeffr2]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Many American nurses work(ed) in Saudi. Lots in my hospital. Most were great people and fun to be around. Unfortunately the religious police didn't allow relationships ( outside marriage ) or mixed parties, so there wasn't much of a social life outside work. The only reason western nurses I knew stayed longer than the initial contract was for the money, which was excellent. I did get to explore the world though, and the country itself was amazing. If not for the religious police it would have been the perfect job.

SA is right at the top of places I want to visit.  Primarily because of this.  I was blown away at Petra in Jordan.

 

https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/travel/saudi-arabia-s-petra-plus-here-is-everything-you-need-to-know-about-al-ula-1.916938

[kingdong]

On 1/20/2021 at 3:54 AM, Scott said:

The refugee laws were written for a different time.   Overall, I think they are pretty good, but that doesn't mean that a view toward the present and the future isn't warranted.  

The destruction of papers, passports is largely a myth.  You can't even apply for asylum if you are from nowhere.   Forced deportations should not be carried out on commercial airlines.   In my experience, most people, once screened out with no chance of remaining, will agree to return.   My limited experience with forced repatriations was of screened out Vietnamese asylum seekers who were deported on specially chartered flights.  

 

Again, it's important to get people screened and resettled or returned quickly before they start a new life.  

 

Totally agree with your view on "returned quickly" however once the ambulance chasing legal profession and outdated laws come into the equation, "quickly " goes out the window.

[Scott]

8 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Totally agree with your view on "returned quickly" however once the ambulance chasing legal profession and outdated laws come into the equation, "quickly " goes out the window.

Yes and no.  Much of the slowdown is getting a speedy hearing.  A lot of the people who are pre-screened and determined to not be refugees will voluntarily return.   If they voluntarily return, they are eligible for a visa to the country in the future; if you are deported you won't be allowed back in regardless of having family who can sponsor you or wanting a visitors visa, etc..  

Those pre-screened out quite frequently have nothing in their claim that even comes close to meeting the criteria.  

[kingdong]

5 minutes ago, Scott said:

Yes and no.  Much of the slowdown is getting a speedy hearing.  A lot of the people who are pre-screened and determined to not be refugees will voluntarily return.   If they voluntarily return, they are eligible for a visa to the country in the future; if you are deported you won't be allowed back in regardless of having family who can sponsor you or wanting a visitors visa, etc..  

Those pre-screened out quite frequently have nothing in their claim that even comes close to meeting the criteria.  

I do feel the states as does Australia have a more robust overseeing of this situation-problem,can only comment on what is happening in the u k which is rapidy getting out of hand.what with the corona pandemic and consequent aftermath there will be interesting times ahead.

[zaZa9]

Evenkneel , "I'm sure they've been groomed on what to say and expect from the generous gringos. Working won't be mandatory once they enter the system. "

 

You are sure based on what evidence?

You  are not going to use yourself as evidence of a  ".. generous gringo " , surely  ?

Now that would be lol material.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:08 PM, Jeffr2 said:

SA is right at the top of places I want to visit.  Primarily because of this.  I was blown away at Petra in Jordan.

 

https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/travel/saudi-arabia-s-petra-plus-here-is-everything-you-need-to-know-about-al-ula-1.916938

Regrettably I never took the opportunity to visit Jordan, but Saudi has similar to Petra and I visited it twice. I also got to see the Turkish railway that Lawrence attacked. Amazing country. Pity about the religious police.

[EVENKEEL]

7 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

Evenkneel , "I'm sure they've been groomed on what to say and expect from the generous gringos. Working won't be mandatory once they enter the system. "

 

You are sure based on what evidence?

You  are not going to use yourself as evidence of a  ".. generous gringo " , surely  ?

Now that would be lol material.

Again, these are caravans are well organized. A reasonable person would believe they have been told what kinds of questions to expect and what the best answers will be. Generous gringo aka the American Taxpayer.

[Tug]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Again, these are caravans are well organized. A reasonable person would believe they have been told what kinds of questions to expect and what the best answers will be. Generous gringo aka the American Taxpayer.

If they clame asylum their cases should be heard and judged according to their merits if it’s found to be untrue they are out that’s how it should be 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Again, these are caravans are well organized. A reasonable person would believe they have been told what kinds of questions to expect and what the best answers will be. Generous gringo aka the American Taxpayer.

Perhaps the Statue of Liberty and the words engraved there have an impact?   Who would have guessed.  Sad Trump's racist supporters don't believe in it. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story-colossus-poem-statue-liberty-symbol-immigration/story?id=64931545

 

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, Tug said:

If they clame asylum their cases should be heard and judged according to their merits if it’s found to be untrue they are out that’s how it should be 

We're not talking about 1 or 2 people at a time claiming asylum, now it's many 1000's at a time. How do you verify each claim to be absolutely certain they qualify. And as our administrator said earlier 40% of the claimants don't show up for the hearing and are supposed to be deported. But where are they, if you let them into the US to wait for the hearing chances are they won't show.

As I understand it now folks are waiting on the Mexican side awaiting their hearing.

[Scott]

Posts with false information removed and replies along with off-topic posts.

 

[kingdong]

On 1/20/2021 at 3:54 AM, Scott said:

The refugee laws were written for a different time.   Overall, I think they are pretty good, but that doesn't mean that a view toward the present and the future isn't warranted.  

The destruction of papers, passports is largely a myth.  You can't even apply for asylum if you are from nowhere.   Forced deportations should not be carried out on commercial airlines.   In my experience, most people, once screened out with no chance of remaining, will agree to return.   My limited experience with forced repatriations was of screened out Vietnamese asylum seekers who were deported on specially chartered flights.  

 

Again, it's important to get people screened and resettled or returned quickly before they start a new life.  

 

Spoke to my relative tonight,in the uk a person with no id has to be screened by " experts" to ascertain where they think he or she is from,all taking a long time at the expense of the uk taxpayer.

[kingdong]

On 1/22/2021 at 12:09 AM, Tug said:

If they clame asylum their cases should be heard and judged according to their merits if it’s found to be untrue they are out that’s how it should be 

Theres the way things shoud be,and the way things are.