Taxation in Thailand for long-term tourists

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Thailand operates a physical presence test on 'work', where you physically are at the time you perform the task.

Who does this? At least immigration and department of employment don't do this, as shown by their actions (or not taking action...) in the past.

Edited February 3, 2021 by jackdd

[jojothai]

20 hours ago, Gattacibus said:

I can't bring only savings because I'm planning to buy a property in Thailand. To pay for it I'll use foreign income (e.g. property sale, dividends, capital gains),

The advice on tax is clear. Best transfer money into here that has been earnt / saved in earlier tax years.
From all the posts / discussions i have seen they do not check.
I would not advise declaring any earnings to the tax authorities here unless they are clearly made for work done outside the country.

Be careful. You need to have a work permit for work done here.

 

Since you are a newbie you need to know that an incoming transfer for purchase of property has to be declared to the bank on the transfer. When i bought a long time ago, you had to declare which property precisely . i.e the name
I am not sure if the rules are the same now. Please can somebody else confirm from recent experience.

[smylee52]

I've been coming to Thailand for 10 years , stay  over 180 days , bought a condo , brought in  millions of baht to pay for condo  and a vehicle and never heard anything from the tax man .  Why the OP is so adamant to put himself in the cross hairs of the Thai tax man is mystifying to me . I can assure you nothing good will come of it .

 

Remember , no good deed goes unpunished .   When you are flying under the radar best to  stay there .

[Peterphuket]

21 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

The Thai's have an expression that applies here "You think too mutt".

 

The revenue department have no way to verify whether the money transferred in was earned this year or 30 years ago, they certainly have no way of checking what went on back home.

 

If anyone ever asks (they won't) it was "savings".

It is not so easy anymore as you said, now there is an exchange about bank info all over the world, between many countries. 

 

See for example this:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chang_Ryung_Han/publication/267210810_Tracing_Trails_Implications_of_Tax_Information_Exchange_Programs_for_Customs_Administrations/links/5464ce7b0cf221c8f57b9f05/Tracing-Trails-Implications-of-Tax-Information-Exchange-Programs-for-Customs-Administrations.pdf

[PGSan]

22 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

Anyone on a tourist visa certainly has nothing to worry about

Very likely they do not, but this is not at all related to their tourist visa: they would equally have nothing to worry about on many (maybe all) other types of visa. 

[tinca tinca]

22 hours ago, jackdd said:

It has nothing to do with the type of visa, the information from soi3eddie is wrong.

 

What sanmyintmaung quoted is the correct answer. Bring only savings into Thailand and you won't have to pay taxes.

one pays tax on interest 15 percent !!!!

[PGSan]

22 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

The double taxation agreement with the UK for example was re-written a couple of years ago, it is no longer the case of Tax paid in UK no tax due in Thailand, only certain incomes are non-taxable and you need to claim relief from HMRC for double taxation.

Please can you post a link to an explanation of the details of this new agreement (not the actual agreement)?  TIA.

[foreverlomsak]

4 minutes ago, tinca tinca said:

one pays tax on interest 15 percent !!!!

if you register for Thai Tax it is claimable back, it is a withholding pending your annual submission of income and meeting any tax liability.

[PGSan]

9 hours ago, CrossBones said:

You might make $1m overseas, remit $50k into Thailand and pay tax on that $50k probably about $10k after deductions. Then your country cant tax you on $1m.

This sounds highly unlikely!   Please explain your reasoning with reference to the appropriate documents. 

[foreverlomsak]

8 minutes ago, PGSan said:

Please can you post a link to an explanation of the details of this new agreement (not the actual agreement)?  TIA.

The agreement is easy to find, finding an understandable explanation is not so easy, I'll try again

[PGSan]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Who does this? At least immigration and department of employment don't do this, as shown by their actions (or not taking action...) in the past.

In what sense do they ‘not do this’?  

[PGSan]

2 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

The agreement is easy to find, finding an understandable explanation is not so easy, I'll try again

Sure!  Thanks for trying! 

[PGSan]

15 minutes ago, tinca tinca said:

one pays tax on interest 15 percent !!!!

How terrible for you!!!  

[pmarlin]

American has a tax treaty with Thailand that prevents double taxation. Here is the treaty.

thailand.pdf

[jackdd]

37 minutes ago, PGSan said:

In what sense do they ‘not do this’?  

There are quite a few co-working spaces, where most people do their work for a foreign company/business while in Thailand on tourist visa or similar. Would be easy for immigration to go there and arrest them, if they considered this to be illegal. But they don't do this.

If such foreigners were arrested, it would for sure make the news and we would have heard about it. How many news about this did you see? I'm only aware of one incident, but the result of this one incident was that immigration let everybody go, stating that what the foreigners do there (working at a co-working space for their business abroad) isn't against the law.

[donmuang37]

23 hours ago, Gattacibus said:

Thanks, but if I buy a property in Thailand the transfers will be visible for sure, so I prefer to pay all taxes in case of an audit

Please relax! I have lived here for 18 yrs, bought a house for cash, bought 4 pickups & 2 cars for cash and have not been required to pay tax.  You are just making an unnecessary problem for yourself. Forget about Thai income tax!

Cheers

[statman78]

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

The advice on tax is clear. Best transfer money into here that has been earnt / saved in earlier tax years.
From all the posts / discussions i have seen they do not check.
I would not advise declaring any earnings to the tax authorities here unless they are clearly made for work done outside the country.

Be careful. You need to have a work permit for work done here.

 

Since you are a newbie you need to know that an incoming transfer for purchase of property has to be declared to the bank on the transfer. When i bought a long time ago, you had to declare which property precisely . i.e the name
I am not sure if the rules are the same now. Please can somebody else confirm from recent experience.

Two weeks ago I transferred money from the US to Thailand to buy a house.  I deal with Bangkok Bank.  I received a call from them and they asked me what the money was for.  I told them my wife is buying a house.  They confirmed that I wanted the transfer and it was in my account within the hour.  I did not have to specify which property I was buying

[Prince77]

21 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I purchased a property month back. Transferred 240k aud in 3 transfers with Transferwise. 

You say the transfers will be visible, so...

At least it is important to have a proof that the money came from abroad in case you will sell the property later and want to take the funds out of the country.

 

Not so easy to transfer larger amounts of money out of Thailand.

[jojothai]

1 hour ago, statman78 said:

Two weeks ago I transferred money from the US to Thailand to buy a house.  I deal with Bangkok Bank.  I received a call from them and they asked me what the money was for.  I told them my wife is buying a house.  They confirmed that I wanted the transfer and it was in my account within the hour.  I did not have to specify which property I was buying

Noted thanks.
If your wife was buying, is she Thai? If it was money for a Thai buying property then it does not matter.

I have transferred money in for my wife to buy property without any special requirements.

A farang cannot buy a house so I presume that you wife is Thai.
When i bought a property with farang ownership as a farang, I always had to show the source of funds transferred and the rule at the time was that the transfer had to state the property you were buying.
Its possible that it may have been relaxed in the last 15 years. Grateful if I somebody can clarify. I may want to buy a condo soon.

[PGSan]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

How many news about this did you see?

Why such aggressive rhetorical questions?? 

[jojothai]

19 minutes ago, jojothai said:

Noted thanks.
If your wife was buying, is she Thai? If it was money for a Thai buying property then it does not matter.

I have transferred money in for my wife to buy property without any special requirements.

A farang cannot buy a house so I presume that you wife is Thai.
When i bought a property with farang ownership as a farang, I always had to show the source of funds transferred and the rule at the time was that the transfer had to state the property you were buying.
Its possible that it may have been relaxed in the last 15 years. Grateful if I somebody can clarify. I may want to buy a condo soon.

I believe its a requirement in the condominium act and you need the bank certificate .
I am trying to find a combined version  of the condo act, 1979 and 2008 combined.
However, it still would be useful if a farang on TV  can advise from recent experience of buying.

Edited February 3, 2021 by jojothai
correction

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, jojothai said:

I believe its a requirement in the condominium act and you need the bank certificate .
I am trying to find a combined version  of the condo act, 1979 and 2008 combined.
However, it still would be useful if a farang on TV  can advise from recent experience of buying.

Best to ask your question in this forum. Real Estate, housing, house and land ownership

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Prince77 said:

Not so easy to transfer larger amounts of money out of Thailand

Its extremely easy using Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency. 

[VBF]

4 hours ago, smylee52 said:

I've been coming to Thailand for 10 years , stay  over 180 days , bought a condo , brought in  millions of baht to pay for condo  and a vehicle and never heard anything from the tax man .  Why the OP is so adamant to put himself in the cross hairs of the Thai tax man is mystifying to me . I can assure you nothing good will come of it .

 

Remember , no good deed goes unpunished .   When you are flying under the radar best to  stay there .

You beat me to that. To me it looks like the OP is determined to hang a sign on his back saying "kick me"!

I think there's an adage about "sleeping dogs" isn't there? ????

 

From a Scottish Peer, Lord Clyde in 1929

""No man in the country is under the smallest obligation, moral or other, so to arrange his legal relations to his business or property as to enable the Inland Revenue to put the largest possible shovel in his stores. The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by VBF

[khunPer]

On 2/2/2021 at 7:09 AM, Gattacibus said:

I will have to file taxes for 2021 both in Thailand and my country of residence (USA), does anyone know if

a) Thailand will ask tourists to pay taxes on foreign-earned income

b) the tax treaty will apply so that I don't have to pay twice 

In theory you are tax resident when you stay more than 180 days (183 days) during a year.

 

You will need to register as tax resident, which might be complicated, when not having a work income, which you are not allowed to have on a STV. You can likely not register for income tax without working income before you actually stay more than 180 days. You need to apply for income tax registration in a revenue office, and you shall fulfill a so-called "tax return" form for a calendar year's income, and pay any due tax, before the end of March in the following year.

 

Foreign income is taxable in Thailand, if it's transferred into Thailand during the same calendar year, as it's earned. If it's transferred the following calendar year, or later, it's considered savings, and transferred savings are free of income tax. If you are living of savings, you are not going to register for income tax.

 

There is a Double Taxation Agreement between US and Thailand, which you should consult for specific purposes, like income taxed in US and transferred to Thailand, during the same calendar year as earned.

 

There is an income tax calculator HERE.

Information about how to get a tax-ID-number (TIN) HERE.

The revenue department's homepage is HERE.

[statman78]

1 hour ago, jojothai said:

Noted thanks.
If your wife was buying, is she Thai? If it was money for a Thai buying property then it does not matter.

I have transferred money in for my wife to buy property without any special requirements.

A farang cannot buy a house so I presume that you wife is Thai.
When i bought a property with farang ownership as a farang, I always had to show the source of funds transferred and the rule at the time was that the transfer had to state the property you were buying.
Its possible that it may have been relaxed in the last 15 years. Grateful if I somebody can clarify. I may want to buy a condo soon.

I brought the money in from my personal retirement account in the US and had it deposited into my personal account here in Thailand.  When asked by the bank I simply stated that my wife and I are buying a house.  I didn’t mention that she was Thai but the bank representative on the other end of the call may have assumed that she was Thai since I said house and not condo.

[topt]

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

Grateful if I somebody can clarify. I may want to buy a condo soon.

The banks contact you to ask the reason for the transfer but I believe it is a box ticking exercise. Over the last few years I have alternated between saying: For property purchase, investment and living expenses.

So if the day comes that I have to try and remit back hopefully I am covered.

[Jeffrey346]

On 2/2/2021 at 1:09 PM, Gattacibus said:

Hello guys, 

This is a question for either experts of Thailand or tourists who stayed a long time in 2020 due to Covid-19.

 

I'm planning to stay in Thailand for more than 6 months in 2021 with the new Special Tourist Visa (STV). From the Thai Embassy DC website: "They (STV holders) will be allowed to stay in Thailand for a period of up to 90 days, counting from the date of entry. STV may be extended twice while the visitor is in Thailand for a period of up to 90 days per each extension"

 

I will have to file taxes for 2021 both in Thailand and my country of residence (USA), does anyone know if

a) Thailand will ask tourists to pay taxes on foreign-earned income

b) the tax treaty will apply so that I don't have to pay twice 

If nobody knows the answer can someone point me to a tax accountant that I can hire for a consultation?

Thank you 

 

You do not have to file tax in Thailand. Just do taxes as required by your home country. 

[foreverlomsak]

9 hours ago, PGSan said:

Please can you post a link to an explanation of the details of this new agreement (not the actual agreement)?  TIA.

As promised a link to HMRC details, Thailand is on page 34, good luck

Digest of Double Taxation Treaties April 2018 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

[daejung]

On 2/2/2021 at 7:09 AM, Gattacibus said:

I will have to file taxes for 2021 both in Thailand and my country of residence (USA), does anyone know if

 

What you have to check is the tax treaty between Thailand and your country