UK asks EU for Brexit grace period extension to 2023, BBC reports

[Tofer]

17 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Where does the contract stipulate that the EU shall be “at the back of the queue for the supplies”?  

 

It doesn't, but it does state that the UK, who ordered in advance, will be supplied first, hence UvdL's reaction.

 

Stop trying to twist the obvious, well, obvious to some people....

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

A united Ireland is the only answer. For the Protestants who fear being a minority, safeguards must be provided in the constitution. We, the UK created this problem by invading Ireland and moving in  Scottish settlers etc. 

Spitballing here: They could also place Scotland on the other side of that line for now in sort of a temporary union (i.e. a confederation of sorts) with Ireland as part of an intermediate step of Scotland's independence from the UK and rejoining the EU.  (i.e. it would maybe make it a little more even in the Protestant vs Catholic during the transition period, it would allow for Scotland to be in the EU customs union as they voted)

[welovesundaysatspace]

27 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

It doesn't, but it does state that the UK, who ordered in advance, will be supplied first, hence UvdL's reaction.

I very much doubt that the contract says that. Would you share the respective clauses here please? 
 

The contract I am aware of says AstraZeneca will manufacture the vaccine at manufacturing sites located within the EU and also stipulates that this includes plants based in the U.K., more specifically two out of four manufacturing sites mentioned in the contract are in the U.K. So maybe you should direct your anger at AstraZeneca instead. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I very much doubt that the contract says that. Would you share the respective clauses here please? 
 

The contract I am aware of says AstraZeneca will manufacture the vaccine at manufacturing sites located within the EU and also stipulates that this includes plants based in the U.K., more specifically two out of four manufacturing sites mentioned in the contract are in the U.K. So maybe you should direct your anger at AstraZeneca instead. 

I agree, if the EU thinks they violated the contract or violated the intent and ethics of it... then they should either sue them or suspend their license to distribute any pharmaceuticals (though that would maybe be overkill since it is a "UK-Swedish" company)...  So the most appropriate remedy would likely be suing them for any damages caused by the delay to the economy and people of the EU...  and let a court decide. 

[Tofer]

54 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The contract I am aware of says AstraZeneca will manufacture the vaccine at manufacturing sites located within the EU and also stipulates that this includes plants based in the U.K., more specifically two out of four manufacturing sites mentioned in the contract are in the U.K. So maybe you should direct your anger at AstraZeneca instead. 

 

So what are your ramblings intended to prove? It's totally irrelevant where they choose to set up and manufacture the vaccine. 

 

The issue debated is the priority of delivery, and unfortunately the EU did not get their act together in time , so the UK's early orders took priority.

 

There's no anger from me, it's the EU who appear angry at being left behind in the vaccination process, hence their vindictive invoking of A16, trying to override the vaccine companies legitimate contractual obligations. I believe also a lot of EU citizens are not too happy with the state of affairs.

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I agree, if the EU thinks they violated the contract or violated the intent and ethics of it... then they should either sue them or suspend their license to distribute any pharmaceuticals (though that would maybe be overkill since it is a "UK-Swedish" company)...  So the most appropriate remedy would likely be suing them for any damages caused by the delay to the economy and people of the EU...  and let a court decide. 

 

I totally agree - so why didn't they???

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I agree, if the EU thinks they violated the contract or violated the intent and ethics of it... then they should either sue them or suspend their license to distribute any pharmaceuticals (though that would maybe be overkill since it is a "UK-Swedish" company)...  So the most appropriate remedy would likely be suing them for any damages caused by the delay to the economy and people of the EU...  and let a court decide. 

While I think the Article 16 move was bad, suing isn’t necessarily the only appropriate response to someone not honoring a contract. You can definitely demand that your contract partner undertakes everything he can to fulfill his obligations, and this may include taking the capacity from other customers. At the end of the day it’s really up to the contract partner and his problem alone how he manages to fulfill his contractual obligations, and not something that you as a buyer would have to care about. So this really doesn’t have anything to do with the UK but is purely between the EU and AstraZeneca. So I am surprised that some Brexiteers take this personally and get so offended. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[welovesundaysatspace]

15 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 It's totally irrelevant where they choose to set up and manufacture the vaccine. 

It may become relevant when their contractual obligation is to supply you product X by date Y from those manufacturing sites. 

 

Quote

The issue debated is the priority of delivery, and unfortunately the EU did not get their act together in time , so the UK's early orders took priority.

That’s your claim that you keep making without providing any evidence. Again, where did the EU contractually agree that the UK shall be supplied before the EU? 
 

Quote

There's no anger from me,

You certainly seem agitated. 
 

Quote

it's the EU who appear angry at being left behind in the vaccination process, hence their vindictive invoking of A16, trying to override the vaccine companies legitimate contractual obligations. I believe also a lot of EU citizens are not too happy with the state of affairs.

The EU is taking actions against a contract partner not fulfilling their contractual obligations. That’s what people do when this happens. Has nothing to do with anger, though it certainly is annoying. 
 

Quote

 

I totally agree - so why didn't they???

Common practice to take other measures first before suing. Maybe you didn’t enter many agreements in your life or you were lucky that you never had to deal with a contractual partner not fulfilling their obligations to you. 
 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

So what are your ramblings intended to prove? It's totally irrelevant where they choose to set up and manufacture the vaccine. <snip>

So you get into an argument about the contracts, lose that argument, therefore decide it is irrelevant.

[Phulublub]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

A united Ireland is the only answer. For the Protestants who fear being a minority, safeguards must be provided in the constitution. We, the UK created this problem by invading Ireland and moving in  Scottish settlers etc. 

A little odd that a supporter of Scottish Independence suggets imposing a Union of Eire and NI, quite possibly against the wishes of a majority of either Country.

 

PH

[tebee]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

give me a break.  They voted like the rest of us.  They are nothing special, they just keep getting treated as such and its balls achingly boring after all these years and all those deaths, many of them innocent lives. . 

Give the people of NI a break too! They had stability and peace through the GFA.

 

They voted against Brexit because they knew it threatened that stability, but were dragged out with the rest against their will.

 

Brexit and the GFA are fundamental incompatible, the only simple solution is a united Ireland.

 

If you don't care if there is war there again and they stand a chance of dying then why should they care about the unity of the UK?

Edited February 12, 2021 by tebee
Punctuation

[david555]

31 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

A little odd that a supporter of Scottish Independence suggets imposing a Union of Eire and NI, quite possibly against the wishes of a majority of either Country.

 

PH

Not so odd   .... as that could give the " backdoor entrance opportunity"  to Scotland ,to use such a union , because  already membership to E.U. from R.O.I. ????

[tebee]

36 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

A little odd that a supporter of Scottish Independence suggets imposing a Union of Eire and NI, quite possibly against the wishes of a majority of either Country.

 

PH

Pre-Brexit that might have been true, but polls now show there is a majority for unification.

 

Afraid were going to need another reforendum as provided for by the GFA.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Pre-Brexit that might have been true, but polls now show there is a majority for unification.

 

Afraid we're going to need another reforendum as provided for by the GFA.

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

Brexit and the GFA are fundamental incompatible, the only simple solution is a united Ireland

It is not the only solution, another solution would be for Ireland to exit the EU, the once EUs lapdog may one day get fed up with the way they have been tossed away like an old rag doll. Don't forget they are now payees in the EU pot to the tune of 2 billion and rising, it is not beyond the realms of fantasy that this may actually happen.

But there are many on here who see the break up of the UK as revenge for Brexit, very sad indeed.

[Phulublub]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

43 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

A little odd that a supporter of Scottish Independence suggets imposing a Union of Eire and NI, quite possibly against the wishes of a majority of either Country.

 

PH

Pre-Brexit that might have been true, but polls now show there is a majority for unification.

 

Afraid were going to need another reforendum as provided for by the GFA.

If there is a groundswell of support for such, then that is what should happen.  But that was not what the OP said and to which I responded.  For advocates of self determination for their own country to suggest anything other than the same for others is not good.

 

For re-unification of the island of Ireland would, IMV, need overwhelming support especially in the six counties of Northern Ireland. 

 

PH

[Phulublub]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

But there are many on here who see the break up of the UK as revenge for Brexit, very sad indeed.

There are?  Sad indeed if true...but who are you talking about?

 

PH

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is not the only solution, another solution would be for Ireland to exit the EU, the once EUs lapdog may one day get fed up with the way they have been tossed away like an old rag doll. Don't forget they are now payees in the EU pot to the tune of 2 billion and rising, it is not beyond the realms of fantasy that this may actually happen.

But there are many on here who see the break up of the UK as revenge for Brexit, very sad indeed.

So you think Ireland should join you in your act of suicidal madness?

 

One thing this debacle has shown them is the strength they have being part of a Union of 27.

 

This is the first time they have been able to take the UK on as equals.

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

...

 

For re-unification of the island of Ireland would, IMV, need overwhelming support especially in the six counties of Northern Ireland. 

 

PH

GFA only insists on a simple majority.

[Phulublub]

Just now, tebee said:

GFA only insists on a simple majority.

Then just as Brexit has shown that a slender majority merely leads to division, the sema would happen in that case.  Only much, much worse.

 

For such fundamental changes to the status quo, a far larger hurdle should be required to be met

 

PH

[melvinmelvin]

33 minutes ago, tebee said:

So you think Ireland should join you in your act of suicidal madness?

 

One thing this debacle has shown them is the strength they have being part of a Union of 27.

 

This is the first time they have been able to take the UK on as equals.

So you think Ireland should join you in your act of suicidal madness?

 

the more the merrier

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

50 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is not the only solution, another solution would be for Ireland to exit the EU

Or for the UK to join the EU. 

 

[vogie]

45 minutes ago, tebee said:

So you think Ireland should join you in your act of suicidal madness?

 

One thing this debacle has shown them is the strength they have being part of a Union of 27.

 

This is the first time they have been able to take the UK on as equals.

One mans "suicidal madness" is another mans democracy. I can understand you being so biased, it cannot be easy for you now with you having property and a business in La Belle France. Bon chance.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

A little odd that a supporter of Scottish Independence suggets imposing a Union of Eire and NI, quite possibly against the wishes of a majority of either Country.

As it is a little odd that the supporters of Union imposed Brexit on NI and Scotland. 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Or for the UK to join the EU. 

 

Or the EU to join the UK, you will get your vaccines in plenty of time, but you will have to adhere to our rules and regulations.

[welovesundaysatspace]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Or the EU to join the UK, you will get your vaccines in plenty of time, but you will have to adhere to our rules and regulations.

Yes, that would also be a solution. No let’s wake up and consider what of all those solutions will most likely happen. 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Give the people of NI a break too! They had stability and peace through the GFA.

 

They voted against Brexit because they knew it threatened that stability, but were dragged out with the rest against their will.

 

Brexit and the GFA are fundamental incompatible, the only simple solution is a united Ireland.

 

If you don't care if there is war there again and they stand a chance of dying then why should they care about the unity of the UK?

so much wrong about your comments. Their collective religious bigotry caused the instability, not one thing else. Why do they deserve a break exactly? They are no more than a small troubled part of Ireland that lives in the past struggles of the 1920s, yes of course they should be united with the rest of the Ireland and the sooner the better. They have held the rest of the UK to ransom for far too long. As for the 'troubles', as it was euphemistically termed, if it did  kick off again, then they deserve to be left to stew in their own idiocy. To paraphrase a famous saying ' NI is not worth the life of one Grenadier'. It never was. 

[bannork]

26 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Or for the UK to join the EU. 

 

Now you're talking.

[vinny41]

28 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Or for the UK to join the EU. 

 

Or the Republic of Ireland to join the UK

[bannork]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Or the Republic of Ireland to join the UK

They're not that dumb.