UK Tourist Visa Thinking about the is the DIY approach after ' Non successful' Agent experience

[Kabuta]

Hi all,

i trawled thru the mountains of threads on this subject but can't really find the answer. If you have a few minutes I will explain my situation.

 

I'm looking to get my Thai girlfriend over here to the UK (London) on a tourist visa or 6 months, so we agreed that she would use the same visa agent in Pattaya that she obtained one thru before some 4 years ago I wasn't in a relationship with her then) The terms where 15k up front and 15k 'only' when visa obtained, if re-application needed its 5k on top.

 

She went to the agent, exchanged details etc. I supplied all the necessary paper work, references, proof of income/relationship, I would support her etc..and she went to the VFS in Bangkok for the biometrics and the passport went off (goes to New Delhi Home Office/British Embassy now) : 

We received the 'declined' letter approx 5 weeks later and it states the reasons for refusal which where:

 

- Last time she visited the UK it was for 2 months as stated in her application but she actually stayed 5 months, and you offered no explanation as to why "   which I thought well.... thats no issue really is it as she was within her 6 months ?  WRONG but only after reading thru the threads on here and from what I gather if you say in your application your going for 2 months, make sure it is otherwise its casts doubt on you.

 

- She had a letter from her employer stating that her job would be there when she returns but the home office wanted more such as other family, commitments back in Thailand

**Just like to say it made no reference to my evidence so I think that must have been ok

 

After reading many many threads on here in conjunction with the refusal letter the conclusion I've come to the conclusion that we need to make a cast iron presentation to the Home Office, a total stranger if you like as they doesn't know us and convince them that I intentions are true and that she will return to Thailand within the period stated on her application.

 

Now where Im coming from is that I think the 'Visa Agent Service' we used should imo picked up on the fact that her application was weak as regards not enough supporting evidence was provided to convince them that she will return to Thailand. They are supposed to be the experts and have dome this many times before so why didn't they say hold on, you need to do X.Y & Z

Secondly regards her extended holiday lat time in the UK, She did raise this with the agent prior to the application being submitted and said "maybe I should write letter" but the visa agent said it would be ok and not to worry, we get visa

 

What I don't want to do is pay them a further 5k bht to make another application only to get it declined again costing us more heart ache, So I though to myself why not apply myself on line on her behalf. I am computer literate and fairly well educated so I'm thinking is it worth a shot, I can't do any worse than the again imo ?

 

One question you's maybe to help me out with is that does she have to go the VFS again in Bangkok for another biometrics thing ? If not how does she hand over her passport or does she post it to VFS or Home Office this time ?

 

Thankyou all for the time you've taken to read my ramblings and any thoughts / comments you might have are most welcome, thanks again and have a wonderful day

 

Stay safe

Edited February 5, 2021 by Kabuta
mis spelt trawled to trolled , sorry

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

DIY approach??? That´s like the normal procedure that most of us go through. Works perfect most of the time, and saves a lot of money too.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Dagfinnur Traustason

[brewsterbudgen]

At the very least I hope the Agent refunded your 15K! They weren't doing their job if they advised her to not mention the extended stay last time.

 

Yes, she needs to attend VFS and get her biometrics taken with every application.  Otherwise it could be anyone handing over her application/passport.

Edited February 5, 2021 by brewsterbudgen

[theoldgit]

Well your post certainly highlights some of the difficilties an ill thought out application can result in, yes you're absolutely right, with her background of staying on "holiday" in the UK far longer than declared in her application, without a genuine and plausable reason given in a further application it was bound to fail. I'm really suprised that after your girlfriend expressed her concerns to the agent she'd hired that they would tell her it was not a problem.

 

She has made matters worse by indicating that she's applying for a further six month holiday.

 

When the Entry Clearance Officer considerd her application for the two month visit, they would have taken into consideration her reasons to return, employment, education or family, they were convinced that on the balance of probabilities her application was genuine and her ties to Thailand plausable, so they issued her the visa, visia vingettes are routinley valid for six months, but the expectation is that they would stay in the UK for the period of time stated in her application, as she actually stayed in the UK for more than twice the time she intended doing so, her reasons to return lack credibility and any further application would have been subjected to extra scrutiny, which seems to have happened.

 

As I say, and she seems to be aware, she should have given a full and frank reason why she stayed in the UK far longer than originally planned, with her subsequent application, that an agent apparently advised her otherwise, really beggars belief. 

 

You are of course not able to tell us the name of the agent on this forum, but if you are able to tell me by PM, that would be more than helpful, and I might be able to point you in a better direction.

 

Moving forward I think she's now got an uphill struggle, she's had a five month holiday in the UK and now wants to visit for a further six months, ECO's are required to consider if an applicant is trying to live in the UK with frequent or successive visits, she's certainly in danger of falling into that category, and a further application really needs a great deal of thought and preperation.

 

And for each and every application she would need to attend the Visa Application Centre to have her biometric details captured and deposit her passport.

     

[cauldlad]

I have done it twice for my Thai wife in recent years, both successful without any issues.

 

Anyone using agents is just throwing their money away imo.

 

I found the most important aspect they want is you proving to them, the reasons WHY she will RETURN to Thailand.

[Stevemercer]

Is now a good time time to apply for a tourist visa? I would have thought that most countries are currently knocking back tourist visas until the Covid situation is resolved?

[Adiudon]

Using an agent for anything here, I think, is just paying somebody to look at your wrist watch and tell you the time, unless you are too busy to compile the documents yourself, have too much money or cannot get all the required information & need it inventing for you. 

 

I got my Thai girlfriend a visit visa for the UK 5-6 years ago, she had no checkable employment, no house or business & no solid reason to prove she needed to return here.

 

I worked on the application for 4 weeks trying to foresee any questions and queries they would have at VFS in Bangkok, it wasn't easy, I compiled it all myself out of country then flew in & she submitted it, I really did have to check & check & then check again that everything was in order, luckily for us it got granted.

We did have 4 years of provable history, with lots of photographs etc.

 

If I was in your position I would do it all yourself but take the time to fully explain every question they might have, explain the reason she stayed longer last time fully going into every detail imaginable, if the VFS agent has no questions he will grant the visa I expect.

 

Best of luck for your future application.

[Surelynot]

23 hours ago, Kabuta said:

The terms where 15k up front and 15k 'only' when visa obtained

OMG........wife says 'we' paid 4000 Baht to our agent....two years ago......(excluding the actual visa costs).

[Kabuta]

Thank you all for your comments, really appreciate it you's are the best ! 

 

I think we will do the application ourselves this time and try to pre-empt all the questions that may be asked so hopefully we get to right first time, well our first time anyway.

 

Thanks again all and stay safe

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Adiudon said:

Using an agent for anything here, I think, is just paying somebody to look at your wrist watch and tell you the time, unless you are too busy to compile the documents yourself, have too much money or cannot get all the required information & need it inventing for you. 

 

I got my Thai girlfriend a visit visa for the UK 5-6 years ago, she had no checkable employment, no house or business & no solid reason to prove she needed to return here.

 

I worked on the application for 4 weeks trying to foresee any questions and queries they would have at VFS in Bangkok, it wasn't easy, I compiled it all myself out of country then flew in & she submitted it, I really did have to check & check & then check again that everything was in order, luckily for us it got granted.

We did have 4 years of provable history, with lots of photographs etc.

 

If I was in your position I would do it all yourself but take the time to fully explain every question they might have, explain the reason she stayed longer last time fully going into every detail imaginable, if the VFS agent has no questions he will grant the visa I expect.

 

Best of luck for your future application.

 

 

Just goes to show:-

 

1. Photographs are not required - in fact whatever you read should have said 'do not submit photographs...' (I think even ECO's understand how easy it is to photoshop anything!).

 

2.. VfS have no role in the approval process so check nothing, except for completeness - and check nothing if you submit everything online.

 

3.  "no solid reason to prove she needed to return here." is one of the main reasons for an application being declined.... the strong ties to Thailand are written in the requirements for a good reason.

[Adiudon]

20 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Just goes to show:-

 

1. Photographs are not required - in fact whatever you read should have said 'do not submit photographs...' (I think even ECO's understand how easy it is to photoshop anything!).

 

2.. VfS have no role in the approval process so check nothing, except for completeness - and check nothing if you submit everything online.

 

3.  "no solid reason to prove she needed to return here." is one of the main reasons for an application being declined.... the strong ties to Thailand are written in the requirements for a good reason.

 

I was merely stating my opinion & my experience of applying 5-6 years ago.

I don't recall any mention of not supplying photographic proof of a relationship. I submitted between 20-30 from memory.

The VFS agent did, rightly or wrongly question my girlfriend at the time of handing in all the documents & I agree that having a valid reason to return to Thailand is a major advantage in the decision to grant the visa or not, I stated that she never had one at the time to prove that it isn't, or at least wasn't, an automatic refusal if no good reason to return was given.

The gist of my full post was to not use an agent & to make sure the op, when re-applying, attempts to provide answers to all questions any person who is in a decision making position would want answering.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Adiudon said:

 

I was merely stating my opinion & my experience of applying 5-6 years ago.

I don't recall any mention of not supplying photographic proof of a relationship. I submitted between 20-30 from memory.

The VFS agent did, rightly or wrongly question my girlfriend at the time of handing in all the documents & I agree that having a valid reason to return to Thailand is a major advantage in the decision to grant the visa or not, I stated that she never had one at the time to prove that it isn't, or at least wasn't, an automatic refusal if no good reason to return was given.

The gist of my full post was to not use an agent & to make sure the op, when re-applying, attempts to provide answers to all questions any person who is in a decision making position would want answering.

 

 

Not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure that the photos get binned.

 

I am aware of 2 cases that were declined for the applicant not having evidenced 'reasons to return to Thailand'. An ECO can argue that anyone in such a position may be likely to abscond or overstay - I wouldn't wish any reader to be blaze about that particular key criteria.

 

I would repeat that VfS staff have no role in the decision making process and will usually only check for completeness of document submission. 

[Bradmeister]

OP,

 

Probably "the sign of the times" as anything shy of a marriage certificate or a Wife, will cause you some major grief.

 

The passport is also key......how many entry and exits? Not just into the UK, but anywhere else on the planet?  If its just one trip to the UK, once upon a time.... forget about it.

 

If the letter of a secured job, is from an employer, an Internationally recognized employer, its still an undertaking.

 

The exceptions to this would be government, military, or anything that has global or international security clearances Import/Export, Shipping or Commercial Ships officer or even Airline Flight or Cabin Crew. 

 

If its from "Joe's meat packing and delivery services" you can forget about it.....  

 

Also, No Tambian Baan or condo/ house ownership is also a NoGo These days.....

 

Happy Hunting.... Give it Six months or another year.

 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

I don't want to be a downer here, and as an American I can't really comment on the UK system.

 

But in the US system lying, or failing to disclose information on a visa application will throw up serious red flags for any subsequent visa application.

 

From everything I read I can't see that the UK, and Western countries in general, differ much in their attitudes towards an applicant who has made false or at best misleading statements in the past.

 

You may be in for a tough row to hoe here!

[TroyC]

Never give up hope. My girlfriend is unemployed with no major assets in Thailand. She has just received her 2nd UK tourist visa, I am her sponsor. Just be honest about everything, the more complicated you try and fudge things the more likely she  will be refused 

[Kabuta]

14 hours ago, TroyC said:

Never give up hope. My girlfriend is unemployed with no major assets in Thailand. She has just received her 2nd UK tourist visa, I am her sponsor. Just be honest about everything, the more complicated you try and fudge things the more likely she  will be refused 

 

Thanks TroyC 

[7by7]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:02 AM, Adiudon said:

I don't recall any mention of not supplying photographic proof of a relationship. I submitted between 20-30 from memory.

 Although UKVI's Visiting the UK: guide to supporting documents was updated in January this year,  a version of the following has been included for at least the 20 years I've taken an interest.

Quote

9. Documents you should not use as evidence

Some types of documents are less useful as evidence in visit applications. These include:

......personal photographs

 To be honest, this has changed slightly from previous versions of the guidance, in which it clearly stated not to submit any photographs except the passport sized ones required in the days before VFS took the applicant's digital photograph as part of their biometrics capture.

[7by7]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:41 AM, GinBoy2 said:

But in the US system lying, or failing to disclose information on a visa application will throw up serious red flags for any subsequent visa application.

 

The same for the UK. If there is evidence of fraud being used in a  current or past application, then any future application within the next 10 years is likely to be refused.

 

See Immigration Rules paras 9.7.1 to 9.8.8.

 

However: staying longer as a visitor than was stated in the application would not come under the above. It would also not be treated as grounds for refusal of a subsequent application provided:

1. the person did not overstay their visa's validity (usually 6 months for a visit visa) and
2. an acceptable reason is given in this application for staying longer than originally stated in the last application.

From the OP it seems that @Kabuta's girlfriend was fine on the first point, but due to her agent's negligence failed the second.

 

That is the problem with some agent's; especially those who promise an easy visa process. I can understand why some may wish to use a reputable agent, and if one does then for a UK visa application my advice is:

• use an agent who has an office in the UK and so is registered with the OISC;
• if the agent claims membership of any regulatory or professional organisation, including the OISC, or any professional qualification from any  organisation, check the validity of that claim with the organisation concerned, a reputable agent will have no problem with you doing so;
• if possible obtain a personal recommendation from a satisfied client known to you or the applicant personally.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by 7by7
Addendum

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

That is the problem with some agent's; especially those who promise an easy visa process. I can understand why some may wish to use a reputable agent, and if one does then for a UK visa application my advice is:

• use an agent who has an office in the UK and so is registered with the OISC;
• if the agent claims membership of any regulatory or professional organisation, including the OISC, or any professional qualification from any  organisation, check the validity of that claim with the organisation concerned, a reputable agent will have no problem with you doing so;
• if possible obtain a personal recommendation from a satisfied client known to you or the applicant personally.

 

 

 

This is an ongoing issue that gets discussed many many times here.

 

These 'agents' who guarantee a tourist Western  country should always be treated with suspicion.

 

I think many people confuse using an agent to arrange a Western country visa with obtaining some kind of visa for Thailand through an agent.

 

Unlike when dealing with obtaining whatever version of Thai visa/extension they have no 'special' arrangements with Western Embassies which is the case with obtaining Thai visas.

 

The upshot, as the OP is discovering is that they can cause long term damage to the prospects for future visa applications, and I wish this unpleasant truth was more understood.

 

A straightforward explanation of why she overstayed her original stated vacation  length, would in all likelihood have just made it a moot point in the application.

 

But, water under the bridge at this point and just got to deal with the fallout

Edited February 7, 2021 by GinBoy2

[youreavinalaff]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:04 AM, Bradmeister said:

OP,

 

Probably "the sign of the times" as anything shy of a marriage certificate or a Wife, will cause you some major grief.

 

The passport is also key......how many entry and exits? Not just into the UK, but anywhere else on the planet?  If its just one trip to the UK, once upon a time.... forget about it.

 

If the letter of a secured job, is from an employer, an Internationally recognized employer, its still an undertaking.

 

The exceptions to this would be government, military, or anything that has global or international security clearances Import/Export, Shipping or Commercial Ships officer or even Airline Flight or Cabin Crew. 

 

If its from "Joe's meat packing and delivery services" you can forget about it.....  

 

Also, No Tambian Baan or condo/ house ownership is also a NoGo These days.....

 

Happy Hunting.... Give it Six months or another year.

 

 

 

Most most of the replies so far have been helpful.

 

Sadly, yours has some incorrect information.

 

Speaking from experience of my wife's 2 visitor visa applications in the last 4 years. Both successful.

[brewsterbudgen]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:44 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Most most of the replies so far have been helpful.

 

Sadly, yours has some incorrect information.

 

Speaking from experience of my wife's 2 visitor visa applications in the last 4 years. Both successful.

I guess it's a downside of being a public forum, that inaccurate, although I'm sure well-meaning, information gets posted.  The post you have quoted is a good example.