Expiry of Retirement visa

[Rigsby]

A friend of mine has a retirement visa which expires/needs-renewing by Monday March 1st. Is there any leeway on this. I.e. if he goes on Tuesday or Wednesday is that OK ??

 

I remember reading somewhere that if you miss the deadline by even 1 day, the visa is finished and you have to start from scratch.

[ubonjoe]

I assume he has a extension of stay not a visa since visas cannot be extended.

If he goes to do it late they will do it after the 500 baht per day overstay fine is paid. If on a long overstay they would not do it.

[Tanoshi]

The obvious question is why can't he apply next week before March 1st?

[Rigsby]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

I assume he has a extension of stay not a visa since visas cannot be extended.

If he goes to do it late they will do it after the 500 baht per day overstay fine is paid. If on a long overstay they would not do it.

This terminology is confounding. Yes, he has an extension of stay (800K in the bank; 1900 cost) but he is unable to go until March 2nd or 3rd which is shortly after it expires. The 500bht overstay fee is no problem as long as he is still able to renew it.

[Rigsby]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The obvious question is why can't he apply next week before March 1st?

Money in the bank issues (i.e. not exactly 2 months for the 800K on Mar 1st).

[WaveHunter]

I'm not saying I would necessarily recommend this but a good (and totally legal) agent can sometimes work something out with Immigration officials on behalf of their client because head Immigration officials in each provincial office have the power to waive certain requirements such as money in the bank for prescribed period of time. 

 

There is nothing shady about it either.  It is written right into the regulations so you can look it up yourself if you doubt it.

 

I'm just going by hearsay in saying this, but it comes from a reliable source...a Immigration official who I've become close friends with.

[Jingthing]

This implies an interesting issue to me that probably doesn't concern the OP specifically.

 

Supposing someone using the 800k method needed a few extra days to fully season their money for the two months before requirement.

 

So they show up a few days late expecting to pay the overstay fine.

 

Do you think immigration would allow the calculation of the seasoning based on the overstay application date or not?

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

Money in the bank issues (i.e. not exactly 2 months for the 800K on Mar 1st).

Oh! So he does have that problem!

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

This terminology is confounding.

Not at all. You originally obtain a Visa, which has a validity date to enter Thailand.

On entry your are granted a period of 'permission of stay' by the Immigration officer.

'Admitted until .....(date)..... on the stamp.

You then 'extend' that permission of stay at your local Immigration office.

The Visa either expires on entry if a single entry type, or on the 'enter before' date if a multiple entry type.

You cannot extend a Visa.

 

Your extending the permission of stay granted on your original entry.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Do you think immigration would allow the calculation of the seasoning based on the overstay application date or not?

Orders state 2 months prior to the date of application, not the expiry date, so provided he pays any overstay fine, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Caldera]

19 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

Money in the bank issues (i.e. not exactly 2 months for the 800K on Mar 1st).

 

In that case, I wouldn't bank on getting the extension with even a single day of overstay. They might do it if they're feeling nice, but that's a big IF!

 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Orders state 2 months prior to the date of application, not the expiry date, so provided he pays any overstay fine, it shouldn't be a problem.

Order doesn't specify how they would deal with the money seasoning requirement being met by showing up on overstay!

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

In that case, I wouldn't bank on getting the extension with even a single day of overstay. They might do it if they're feeling nice, but that's a big IF!

 

Why not, read my post above yours.

Provided he maintained a balance of 800K for 3 months after his last extension, then maintained a balance of 400K since, and can prove a balance of 800K for 2 months prior to the date of application he is in compliance.

His new extension will be dated from the expiry date of his previous extension, so he gains nothing by applying late, provided he pays the overstay fine.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

In that case, I wouldn't bank on getting the extension with even a single day of overstay. They might do it if they're feeling nice, but that's a big IF!

 

I'm curious to hear Ubonjoe's opinion on this but needless to say people should avoid this situation if possible. 

 

Ultimately on a problematic situation such as this it is only the opinion of the immigration officer that really matters.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

Why not, read my post above yours.

Provided he maintained a balance of 800K for 3 months after his last extension, then maintained a balance of 400K since, and can prove a balance of 800K for 2 months prior to the date of application he is in compliance.

His new extension will be dated from the expiry date of his previous extension, so he gains nothing by applying late, provided he pays the overstay fine.

Why not?

Because meeting the requirement is based on overstay. Not a normal situation  

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why not?

Because meeting the requirement is based on overstay. Not a normal situation  

The requirement is based on the date of application, not overstay.

Provided he pays the short overstay off, he should be allowed to continue with his extension application.

 

His only vulnerability is dealing with a corrupt IO, that demands 'tea money' for the problem to disappear.

He is not the first, nor the last to pay a short overstay fine then be granted a further extension of stay.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The requirement is based on the date of application, not overstay.

Provided he pays the short overstay off, he should be allowed to continue with his extension application.

 

His only vulnerability is dealing with a corrupt IO, that demands 'tea money' for the problem to disappear.

He is not the first, nor the last to pay a short overstay fine then be granted a further extension of stay.

So you say.

But I don’t recall any reports here of someone needing to overstay to meet the seasoning requirement. 

So I suspect this may not be as clear cut as you think.

[Caldera]

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Why not, read my post above yours.

Provided he maintained a balance of 800K for 3 months after his last extension, then maintained a balance of 400K since, and can prove a balance of 800K for 2 months prior to the date of application he is in compliance.

His new extension will be dated from the expiry date of his previous extension, so he gains nothing by applying late, provided he pays the overstay fine.

 

No. To be "in compliance", you need to apply on or before your expiration date. If you abuse the fact that they are usually willing to still grant the extension with a short overstay in order to gain wiggle room for money seasoning, you really are at their mercy, which is what I pointed out.

 

The order states what the order states to cater for the case that an applicant applies EARLY. There's no explicit provision for the overstay scenario.

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Caldera said:

 

No. To be "in compliance", you need to apply on or before your expiration date. If you abuse the fact that they are usually willing to still grant the extension with a short overstay in order to gain wiggle room for money seasoning, you really are at their mercy, which is what I pointed out.

 

The order states what the order states to cater for the case that an applicant applies EARLY. There's no explicit provision for the overstay scenario.

 

Yes and that would give them more than enough legal justification to deny such overstay applications that needed overstay to meet seasoning. Not saying they would. But they could.

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, Caldera said:

The order states what the order states to cater for the case that an applicant applies EARLY. There's no explicit provision for the overstay scenario.

It's a separate provision for overstay, than the requirements for an extension.

Once the overstay provision is complied with by paying the appropriate fine, then he should be able to proceed based on meeting the requirements for the extension. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I'm curious to hear Ubonjoe's opinion on this but needless to say people should avoid this situation if possible. 

I can recall cases where immigration told people to go on a overstay when they were a few days short of having the money in the bank long enough.

A couple of days of overstay is not really that big of a deal.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I can recall cases where immigration told people to go on a overstay when they were a few days short of having the money in the bank long enough.

A couple of days of overstay is not really that big of a deal.

OK.

Thank you.

But do you think needing to overstay to meet money seasoning COULD be used as a legit reason for rejection?

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, Rigsby said:

Money in the bank issues (i.e. not exactly 2 months for the 800K on Mar 1st).

 

Is your pal married to a Thai national? If so, he should be able to apply for a 60-day extension for the purposes of visiting her - which would, presumably, give him adequate time to get his finances straightened out for his next retirement extension. Provided that he hasn't already obtained said 60-day extension on the basis of the visa which he originally used to enter Thailand before hitting the retirement extension of stay trail.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

His only vulnerability is dealing with a corrupt IO, that demands 'tea money' for the problem to disappear.

In which case fingers firmly crossed that the office he deals with isn't Nonthaburi!

 

[Tanoshi]

20 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Is your pal married to a Thai national? If so, he should be able to apply for a 60-day extension for the purposes of visiting her - which would, presumably, give him adequate time to get his finances straightened out for his next retirement extension. Provided that he hasn't already obtained said 60-day extension on the basis of the visa which he originally used to enter Thailand before hitting the retirement extension of stay trail.

If his extension was based on retirement, he could be on a sticky wicket trying for a 60 day extension based on visiting Thai wife. 

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, OJAS said:

In which case fingers firmly crossed that the office he deals with isn't Nonthaburi!

 

The OP didn't state which office his friend attends, but sods law now someone has mentioned an office, it increases the chances of it being Nonthacorruptburi Immigration

[Rigsby]

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If his extension was based on retirement, he could be on a sticky wicket trying for a 60 day extension based on visiting Thai wife. 

No, he's living here and single and it's Jomtien Immigration.

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

No, he's living here and single and it's Jomtien Immigration.

I think the Jomtien office is very competent but I'm not sure competence is what you want in situations like this. More like flexibility and compassion. 

The final decision is obviously up to the officer you meet or his boss.

Based on Ubonjoe's comment it sounds like it will be OK but if it was me I would be feeling stressed.

[smallgnome]

The best thing would be to visit with the immigration office B4 the due date and ask the official what they should do.  That way they can demonstrate leniency and gain your trust.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, smallgnome said:

The best thing would be to visit with the immigration office B4 the due date and ask the official what they should do.  That way they can demonstrate leniency and gain your trust.

That's sound advice.  And it avoids already being on overstay when applying for the 1-year retirement extension.  So if the Imm officer makes a Big Thing out of it (instead of your friend just having to pay the 500 THB/day for 1 or 2 days overstay), your friend could then still engage a Fixer Agent to make the problem go away.