Scottish leader fights back in row with ex-mentor that threatens independence drive

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

In the same way the last general election was not a vote on Brexit?

Its all Johnson talked about.

 

The 2016 referendum was the vote on Brexit (52/48 leave)

 

Just as the 2014 referendum was the vote on Scottish Independence (55/45 remain)

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

The 2016 referendum was the vote on Brexit (52/48 leave)

 

Just as the 2014 referendum was the vote on Scottish Independence (55/45 remain)

 

Johnson won the election on a slogan of Get Brexit done. It was the sole policy he talked about.

So if the pro independence parties campaign on a slogan of We want another referendum and they win are you going to deny Scotland the right to hold one because you fear you will lose?

How very democratic. Preventing a Scottish government from implementing its policies just because you dont like it.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Twitter is a left wing echo chamber, especially if like you all the people you follow are hardcore Scottish nationalists.

 

No doubt your feed was full of Remainers prior to Brexit as well.

 

 

I aim to have a balanced feed of all perspectives. When reasonably large groups of people get caught up in an echo chamber of their own making, stupid things like Brexit happen. 

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

You're very easily confused if having read my posts for several years you think I am Scottish, that level of confusion could explain your undying support of the Scottish nasty Party ????.

 

 

Exactly - your albaphobic bigotry is well documented, hence my confusion. Thankfully, it can be put down to poor syntax. All is in order. 

[JonnyF]

27 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Johnson won the election on a slogan of Get Brexit done. It was the sole policy he talked about.

So if the pro independence parties campaign on a slogan of We want another referendum and they win are you going to deny Scotland the right to hold one because you fear you will lose?

How very democratic. Preventing a Scottish government from implementing its policies just because you dont like it.

Not the same at all.

 

We didn't need the General Election to confirm that the people wanted to leave. The people had already spoken in 2016.

 

We only needed the General Election to remove the Remainers from Parliament that were trying to obstruct the Democratic result.

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I aim to have a balanced feed of all perspectives. When reasonably large groups of people get caught up in an echo chamber of their own making, stupid things like Brexit happen. 

 

 

Exactly - your albaphobic bigotry is well documented, hence my confusion. Thankfully, it can be put down to poor syntax. All is in order. 

 

A fanatical Scottish nationalist who refers to the English as "parasitic neighbours" shouldn't really talk about bigotry. 

 

Glass houses and all that.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Not the same at all.

 

We didn't need the General Election to confirm that the people wanted to leave. The people had already spoken in 2016.

 

We only needed the General Election to remove the Remainers from Parliament that were trying to obstruct the Democratic result.

 

It is the same. Johnson won a general election on a slogan and policy to Get Brexit done.

Preventing the Scottish parliament from implementing its flagship policy would be pure hypocrisy. 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

It is the same. Johnson won a general election on a slogan and policy to Get Brexit done.

Preventing the Scottish parliament from implementing its flagship policy would be pure hypocrisy. 

Johnson had a mandate for Brexit from the Leave vote in 2016.

 

Scotland voted to stay in 2014.

 

See the difference?

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

He's not a parliamentarian. Not been an MSP since 2016 nor an MP since 2017. Resigned from SNP in 2018. Now works for RT (Russia Today) as a journalist.

 

I said he was probably one of the longest-serving British parliamentarians.

 

He served as an MP in Westminster for a total of 25 years. First elected in 1987.

 

In addition, he served as an MSP in Holyrood for 6 years.

 

Although about 4 years of those overlapped, that's a cumulative 31 years as a parliamentarian.

 

If you tack on his 7-year First Minister gig, that's 38 years in politics, ie. long-serving.

 

I'm a couple of years younger than him but I've managed about 44 years in my chosen career and my industry peers consider that as long-serving too.

[NanLaew]

54 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

A fanatical Scottish nationalist who refers to the English as "parasitic neighbours" shouldn't really talk about bigotry. 

 

Glass houses and all that.

 

Ye ken there's no' a lot o' glass hooses in Scotland, aye?

 

On the pain of resurrecting an earlier contretemps, bigotry is something that us Scots excel in.

[NanLaew]

55 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

It is the same. Johnson won a general election on a slogan and policy to Get Brexit done.

Preventing the Scottish parliament from implementing its flagship policy would be pure hypocrisy. 

 

But that "flagship policy" only applies if one subscribes to the fundamentally unsubstantiated myth that the Brexit vote result changed things.

[vogie]

Oops.

 

[phantomfiddler]

Yon Nicola has a mean and hungry look, such women are dangerous ???? This wrat (possible anagram) will only be happy when she is the queen of Scotland. The deserve better !

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Johnson had a mandate for Brexit from the Leave vote in 2016.

 

Scotland voted to stay in 2014.

 

See the difference?

 

That was a different parliament. No government is bound by the actions/policies/agreements of the previous government.

So lets try this. Its 2016. Remain wins by 52 to 48% in the Brexit referendum. In a following General election a majority of MP's from the Conservative and Brexit parties form the government having promised to hold another referendum.

The EU says no.

Would that be democratic? Would you be OK with that?

[Thingamabob]

My impression is that Sturgeon survived this enquiry without much difficulty.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I am not making excuses for him; he's a boorish prig in public and private life. The problem is that the claims of sexual assault and harassment were extremely likely to be legitimate but were undone by the SNP's inability to follow their own procedures. It is entirely up to the First Minister to fall on her sword, or not.

There is no dispute mistakes were made, happens all the time in politics. If procedural errors were a hanging offence why no investigation into all mistakes, particularly PM's found guilty in court. Did they mislay their swords?

This saga has been blown out of proportion for political gain, a concerted effort to distract from the huge mistake of brexit. Bojo sees it as a get out of jail card.

 

Fairly obvious many of the anti SNP are suffering from stage 4 hypocrisy.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

My impression is that Sturgeon survived this enquiry without much difficulty.

 

I agree. Apart from the breach of ministerial code, I reckon she did herself proud.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The title of the thread is "Scottish leader fights back in row with ex-mentor that threatens independence drive". Just in case you are doing a Nichola Sturgeon and you can't recall.

 

You are making apologies with your very poor comparison. I was unaware that Mark Thatcher was a First/Prime Minister or did you miss a few letters off and you are on about Mar garete.

 

Good attempt at deflection.

The post I responded to implied some sort of benefit to the husband of a first minister and it wouldn't happen in the UK government.

Do you really believe there was no benefit to the son of a Prime Minister, or do you not know who Mark Thatcher was and what he did.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Mark Thatcher was CEO of the Conservative Party?  learn something new everyday!  snigger, snigger

Complain about corruption everywhere else but ignore it at home. 

There is a name for people like that.

[kingdong]

On 3/4/2021 at 2:03 AM, vogie said:

So the convenor of the enquiry Fabiani is an SNP mp and a friend of NS, she came to the rescue of Sturgeon when she was againgst the ropes being pressed by Baillie. Has NS always had these memory lapses, "I cannot recall, not to my recollection, I don't know" 

There was so much evidence missing, it stinks to high heaven. 

 

 

 

More holes than a string vest

[NanLaew]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There is no dispute mistakes were made, happens all the time in politics. If procedural errors were a hanging offence why no investigation into all mistakes, particularly PM's found guilty in court. Did they mislay their swords?

This saga has been blown out of proportion for political gain, a concerted effort to distract from the huge mistake of brexit. Bojo sees it as a get out of jail card.

 

Fairly obvious many of the anti SNP are suffering from stage 4 hypocrisy.

 

It's not in any way "...a concerted effort to distract from the huge mistake of brexit..." It's all about perpetually meally-mouthed Scottish politicians and their clamor to feel relevant and wanted.

 

I guess we await the moment when the judicial process pushes them onto those same swords that they fallaciously claim to be willing to fall on all by themselves.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Complain about corruption everywhere else but ignore it at home. 

There is a name for people like that.

 

SNP?

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

I said he was probably one of the longest-serving British parliamentarians.

 

He served as an MP in Westminster for a total of 25 years. First elected in 1987.

 

In addition, he served as an MSP in Holyrood for 6 years.

 

Although about 4 years of those overlapped, that's a cumulative 31 years as a parliamentarian.

 

If you tack on his 7-year First Minister gig, that's 38 years in politics, ie. long-serving.

 

I'm a couple of years younger than him but I've managed about 44 years in my chosen career and my industry peers consider that as long-serving too.

There is a saying about leopards and spots.

 

The 79 Group was a faction within the Scottish National Party (SNP), named after its year of formation, 1979. The group sought to persuade the SNP to take an active left-wing stance, arguing that it would win more support, and were highly critical of the established SNP leaders. Although it had a tiny membership, the group caused sufficient disquiet that it was expelled from the SNP in 1982, although its members were subsequently readmitted and many attained senior positions in the Scottish Government after 2007. Former First Minister Alex Salmond (2007–2014) was a leading member of the group.

 

The group was formed as a left wing organisation committed to the establishment of a "socialist and republican Scotland"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/79_Group

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

It's not in any way "...a concerted effort to distract from the huge mistake of brexit..." It's all about perpetually meally-mouthed Scottish politicians and their clamor to feel relevant and wanted.

 

I guess we await the moment when the judicial process pushes them onto those same swords that they fallaciously claim to be willing to fall on all by themselves.

You ignore to say what happened to the judicial process and swords in Westminster.

Did Priti Patel break the ministerial code or not? Has she sharpened her sword?

 

Just another case of one rule for Westminster and another for Holyrood and you wonder why Scotland wants to leave.

Individuals come and go, it is the lack of respect for the devolved nations that will eventually kill off the so called "United" Kingdom.

[sandyf]

19 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

SNP?

Thanks for confirming my point.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Good attempt at deflection.

The post I responded to implied some sort of benefit to the husband of a first minister and it wouldn't happen in the UK government.

Do you really believe there was no benefit to the son of a Prime Minister, or do you not know who Mark Thatcher was and what he did.

The thread is about Nichola Sturgeon.

 

It is not about a previous UK prime ministers son who tried to start a coup in another country amongst getting lost. So yes I do know who he is. That is for another thread. Maybe you can start one on him. The only thing he has in common is he couldn't recall either. The way home.

[RuamRudy]

To think that even 5 years ago, support for Welsh independence was barely in the 20s. 

How on earth can the UK save itself now? I see nothing in the offing that will swing opinion back towards Westminster rule. 

The UK is only going in one direction, and that is towards its long overdue demise. 

 

Westminster warned as poll shows record backing for Welsh independence

Survey for ITV News Tonight reported ‘dramatic uplift’ with 40% backing independence and most support amongst young people

 

 

[Wullie Mercer]

On 3/4/2021 at 8:51 AM, BobBKK said:

 

 A social media friend of mine said she did better than Trump, and another social media friend said Putin could not take that questioning. I am not responsible for my social media friends I just quote them to make my political points!

On a more serious note the people who are supposed to scrutinize work FOR the government. She wanted power it's plain and simple and stabbed her innocent friend in the back (but she's searched her soul about it LOL).

My English friends are having a field day, the "Sturgeon-Salmond row" is mockingly called the "Fight of the Fishes"!!!

[JonnyF]

17 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

That was a different parliament. No government is bound by the actions/policies/agreements of the previous government.

So lets try this. Its 2016. Remain wins by 52 to 48% in the Brexit referendum. In a following General election a majority of MP's from the Conservative and Brexit parties form the government having promised to hold another referendum.

The EU says no.

Would that be democratic? Would you be OK with that?

 

The EU and the UK are totally different as you well know.

 

The EU is a glorified trading bloc.

 

The UK is a sovereign country. Of course the rules and procedures are different for leaving a trading bloc and breaking up a country.

 

It's like the difference between breaking up with a girlfriend you've been with for a couple of months and divorcing your wife of 30 years. Different rules. And rightly so.

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

To think that even 5 years ago, support for Welsh independence was barely in the 20s. 

How on earth can the UK save itself now? I see nothing in the offing that will swing opinion back towards Westminster rule. 

The UK is only going in one direction, and that is towards its long overdue demise. 

 

Westminster warned as poll shows record backing for Welsh independence

Survey for ITV News Tonight reported ‘dramatic uplift’ with 40% backing independence and most support amongst young people

 

 

You have had your referendum, I see no reason why the Welsh shouldn't have one, I mean it's only fair, as long as they also realise that it will be a once in a lifetime referendum just the same as yours was.

[Rookiescot]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

The EU and the UK are totally different as you well know.

 

The EU is a glorified trading bloc.

 

The UK is a sovereign country. Of course the rules and procedures are different for leaving a trading bloc and breaking up a country.

 

It's like the difference between breaking up with a girlfriend you've been with for a couple of months and divorcing your wife of 30 years. Different rules. And rightly so.

 

The EU is a union of sovereign states.

The UK is a union of sovereign states.

So not different at all.