17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That doesn’t back up your claim.

 

French Doctors criticism of Macron’s expressed views on the vaccine says nothing about their views wrt your accusation of Macron ‘hoarding’ the vaccine.

 

I suspect French doctors are rather pleased with the ‘U-turn’, but unlike yourself I don’t claim to actually know their views on Matters they have not spoken about.

You are getting confused. Macron claimed AZ was quasi ineffective in over 65's. This was completely false as data has shown.

 

The EU is hoarding (by extending export controls of) the AZ vaccine, not Macron. Hope that clarifies.

 

The left hand really doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Ursula was right, the tanker can't compete with the speedboat. What a mess. Despite the usual cheerleaders on TV, back in the real world EU citizens have noticed what a screw up the EU has made of this.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccine-eu-slow-rollout-poll-kekst-cnc/

 

 

Looks like the Aussies almost expected this kind of trick. 

 

CYA attempt from the EU. 

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

 

It was you who specifically mentioned the French.

All I did was point out the hypocrisy of Brexiteers complaining about the EU "hoarding" vaccines while the UK went as far as to actually insert a clause in the contract to allow it to hoard the vaccine.

 

No issue at all with taking care of your own country first. 

 

The issue is with rubbishing the vaccine to score political points and then trying to keep as much of the "quasi-ineffective" vaccine as you can.

 

"Hey this UK vaccine is rubbish! But don't give any of it away for gods sake". Not a logical stance. If it's so ineffective, why hoard it? It would be amusing if it wasn't so serious. Let's hope nobody was listening to Macron and decided not to take it. Hugely irresponsible of him to play games with a life saving vaccine in the middle of a pandemic.

 

 

33 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

No issue at all with taking care of your own country first. 

 

The issue is with rubbishing the vaccine to score political points and then trying to keep as much of the "quasi-ineffective" vaccine as you can.

 

"Hey this UK vaccine is rubbish! But don't give any of it away for gods sake". Not a logical stance. If it's so ineffective, why hoard it? It would be amusing if it wasn't so serious. Let's hope nobody was listening to Macron and decided not to take it. Hugely irresponsible of him to play games with a life saving vaccine in the middle of a pandemic.

 

 

 

I made no comment on what Macron has said.

I pointed out the hypocrisy of accusing others of hoarding vaccine while the UK does it itself.

My point stands.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The EU is hoarding (by extending export controls of) the AZ vaccine, not Macron. Hope that clarifies.

Neither the EU nor Macron are hoarding anything. 

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Despite the usual cheerleaders on TV, back in the real world EU citizens have noticed what a screw up the EU has made of this.

Most of EU citizens are better off. 
 

Stop the lies. I know it’s difficult for a Brexiteer. 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Neither the EU nor Macron are hoarding anything. 

 

Most of EU citizens are better off. 
 

Stop the lies. I know it’s difficult for a Brexiteer. 

 

 

 

They are extending vaccine controls. You can lie and say they aren't as many times as you like but please check the topic of the thread if you need confirmation.

 

EU citizens are better off than whom in terms of vaccine rollout? Not better than the UK, that's for sure. Check the facts if you don't believe me. We're miles ahead.

 

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210226/6-reasons-frances-covid-vaccine-rollout-has-been-so-slow/

 

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

You wish it was.????

 

The reason for the EU having a vaccine shortage and therefore having to restrict exports to Australia is very much on topic, even if you hate to hear it. Bit embarrassing huh.

Yes, the reason is very much on topic, but Brexit really is not the reason.

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

They are extending vaccine controls. You can lie and say they aren't as many times as you like but please check the topic of the thread if you need confirmation.

You claimed the EU and France are hoarding vaccines. That’s not true. Provide evidence for you assertion. 

 

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

EU citizens are better off than whom in terms of vaccine rollout?

Better off than without the EU. You were commenting on impact of EU membership on vaccinations, weren’t you? 
 

34 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

I made no comment on what Macron has said.

I pointed out the hypocrisy of accusing others of hoarding vaccine while the UK does it itself.

My point stands.

 

Yes probably best you avoid the Macron issue. All a bit embarrassing really.

 

It is not hypocritical to state facts. The EU is hoarding it. I have stated multiple times that I think countries should absolutely vaccinate their own before giving it to others, therefore I am not criticizing this practice from the EU or the UK. So where is the hypocrisy?

 

To clarify for about the 5th time, I am criticizing Macron for claiming AZ was quasi-ineffective in over 65's when this was simply not true. He was scoring political points by lieing about the effectiveness of a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic. Spreading false information to the public about the cure, while keeping as much as he possibly could of the same vaccine! Absolutely shameful behaviour, but no surprise given that it's Macron.

 

If you weren't aware, the UK has already pledged to donate excess vaccines.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55795297

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You claimed the EU and France are hoarding vaccines. That’s not true. Provide evidence for you assertion. 

 

Better off than without the EU. You were commenting on impact of EU membership on vaccinations, weren’t you? 
 

 

This is getting a bit weird. Have you read the title of the thread?

 

Here is the evidence. The clue is in the headline.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

This is getting a bit weird. Have you read the title of the thread?

 

Here is the evidence. The clue is in the headline.

 

There’s no evidence for the EU or France hoarding anything. 
 

If you want to go back and change your claim to “EU may extend export controls” then we can agree. 

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

This is getting a bit weird. Have you read the title of the thread?

 

Here is the evidence. The clue is in the headline.

 

 

 

Webster says hoarding is "the compulsion to continually accumulate a variety of items that are often considered useless or worthless by others accompanied by an inability to discard the items without great distress ".

The EU is using the vaccines, therefore this is not hoarding. As you said yourself "I have stated multiple times that I think countries should absolutely vaccinate their own before giving it to others, therefore I am not criticizing this practice from the EU or the UK. ".

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

There’s no evidence for the EU or France hoarding anything. 
 

If you want to go back and change your claim to “EU may extend export controls” then we can agree. 

 

OK it appears this is a language issue, maybe English isn't your first language. No problem. Allow me to help.

 

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Webster says hoarding is "the compulsion to continually accumulate a variety of items that are often considered useless or worthless by others accompanied by an inability to discard the items without great distress ".

The EU is using the vaccines, therefore this is not hoarding. As you said yourself "I have stated multiple times that I think countries should absolutely vaccinate their own before giving it to others, therefore I am not criticizing this practice from the EU or the UK. ".

 

Often English words can have many definitions. Here is one from the Cambridge dictionary.

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hoarding

 

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

OK it appears this is a language issue, maybe English isn't your first language. No problem. Allow me to help.

 

If you want to apply that definition, then the UK and the US are also “hoarding”, and many (all?) other countries as well, as they are all collecting large amounts of vaccines and keep it it for themselves. 
 

 

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

So the UK and the US are also hoarding, and many other countries as well, as they are collecting large amounts of vaccines and keep it it for themselves. 
 

 

 

Yes they are.

 

I'm glad you finally got there. 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yes they are.

 

I'm glad you finally got there. 

I don’t necessarily agree to call that “hoarding”, but then I don’t understand why you’re getting so obsessed about EU countries doing what the UK and other countries are doing. 

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I don’t necessarily agree to call that “hoarding”, but then I don’t understand why you’re getting so obsessed about EU countries doing what the UK and other countries are doing. 

 

OK, definitely getting weird in here. I'll try for a 6th time and then bow out.????

 

I have no issue at all with taking care of your own country first. UK, EU, US. All of them. Fine. 

 

The issue is with rubbishing the AZ vaccine and claiming it is "quasi-effective" to score political points, and then trying to keep as much (i.e. hoard) of the same "quasi-ineffective" AZ vaccine as you can.

 

I can't word it any more simply than that, so I won't be clarifying again. If you don't understand, read it 10 times. I'm off for a well deserved beer.????

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Often English words can have many definitions. Here is one from the Cambridge dictionary.

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hoarding

 

That would be a very narrow definition, resulting in many countries, including the UK, hoarding vaccines and many other goods.

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yes they are.

 

I'm glad you finally got there. 

So please refrain from using it in a negative sense the way you have been doing, since you also state you agree with this practice.

 

Regarding your other point about hypocrisy, that's called politics.

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Always amazing how quickly the Europhiles revert back to the concept of the nation state when the EU poop hits the fan ????.

 

so the UK has a contract with AZ and it's ok to enforce it ... on the other hand,  the EU also has a contract with AZ but it's ok Not to enforce it....  in which world are you living

It is also interesting to note that the EU contract was signed at around the same time as the UK contract (actually, it was one day before the UK contract). A down payment of €336 million was also made at that time, in order to finance adequate production facilities.

The Euro empire is flexing its muscles.

 

EU first, everyone else last.

 

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So its OK for the UK to do it because they inserted a hoarding clause in its contract?

There was a disruption in the supply chain in Belgium - this is why there is a delay - it's the only reason why there is a delay.

 

It's OK to do this because the contract was contingent on supplies which failed to arrive - hence the vaccine was not produced. Then they decided that regardless of the failure in Belgium that they (The EU) would like to dip into the UK supplies, quite rightly we told them to go <deleted> themselves.

 

You should really read up on what you're talking about.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yes probably best you avoid the Macron issue. All a bit embarrassing really.

 

It is not hypocritical to state facts. The EU is hoarding it. I have stated multiple times that I think countries should absolutely vaccinate their own before giving it to others, therefore I am not criticizing this practice from the EU or the UK. So where is the hypocrisy?

 

To clarify for about the 5th time, I am criticizing Macron for claiming AZ was quasi-ineffective in over 65's when this was simply not true. He was scoring political points by lieing about the effectiveness of a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic. Spreading false information to the public about the cure, while keeping as much as he possibly could of the same vaccine! Absolutely shameful behaviour, but no surprise given that it's Macron.

 

If you weren't aware, the UK has already pledged to donate excess vaccines.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55795297

 

 

 

 

You are doing it again. Desperately trying to steer the thread onto Macron for some reason while quoting someone who has not mentioned Macron at all.

If you have no issues with countries hoarding vaccine why did you reply to me at all?

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

There was a disruption in the supply chain in Belgium - this is why there is a delay - it's the only reason why there is a delay.

 

It's OK to do this because the contract was contingent on supplies which failed to arrive - hence the vaccine was not produced. Then they decided that regardless of the failure in Belgium that they (The EU) would like to dip into the UK supplies, quite rightly we told them to go <deleted> themselves.

 

You should really read up on what you're talking about.

 

 

 

 

No the EU wanted the vaccines Astra Zeneca promised them.

It seems AZ decided to limit supplies to the EU but keep their promise to the UK.

Rightly the EU is not happy with that.

As for the UK telling the EU to go <deleted> themselves I suspect thats just pure nonsense you want to believe. 

 

9 minutes ago, ukrules said:

The Euro empire is flexing its muscles.

 

EU first, everyone else last.

 

 

So its OK for the UK to tell the EU to go <deleted> themselves but if you perceive the EU doing the same its wrong?

Sheer hypocrisy. 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

That would be a very narrow definition, resulting in many countries, including the UK, hoarding vaccines and many other goods.

 

Indeed yes. The UK has now started hoarding a lot of stuff. Like fish for example ????

Meanwhile, more and more European countries are ordering vaccines from China.

 

Czech Republic to get China’s Sinopharm virus vaccine

 

Czech Republic is the 3rd European country that have ordered Sinopharm's vaccines, after Serbia and Hungary.

 

 

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

The issue is with rubbishing the AZ vaccine and claiming it is "quasi-effective" to score political points, and then trying to keep as much (i.e. hoard) of the same "quasi-ineffective" AZ vaccine as you can.

Again, that’s not true. None of the countries that you call “hoarding” something has “rubbished” the vaccine “to score political points”.

 

Some countries have questioned the effectiveness regarding the elderly (>65yo).