EU rebuffs UK calls to ship AstraZeneca COVID vaccines from Europe

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Blue Muton said:

Not true and surely you know it.

Sorry to disppoint but completely true

If it was the EU exporting to other countries why would they put an authorisation mechanism in place before they can export

That is the EU wishing to export so they send a request to themselves requesting approval for export which is then granted by themselves

 

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

 

Fair point !

 

1/ We do have plenty of citizens already vaccinated with their 1st jab, so we need the second jab.

 

 

2/ Considering most EU countries are using the AZ right now (except 3 northern Europe countries we it's still suspended), so we payed it, we need it 

 

In France the AZ is available directly from your GP or local Pharmacy and there is a lot of demand

 

Now while AZ production is riddled with problems, Deutsche Qualität pfizer *is* delivering  and production is scaling up very fast. Now the demand is huge (and remember, unlike the UK we have been delivering to the whole world).

 

until now, more than 300 exports operations have been approved, one was refused.

 

 

It is likely the EU will now stop exporting to countries than do not reciprocate, I mean the UK

 

I

Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries

Despite earlier promises, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply. The UK slammed the move as "counterproductive."

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274

ts more that just the UK that the EU wouldn't be exporting to

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

I do not believe for one second the UK is helping more than we do, whether in money really sent or vaccine doses shared. 

 

Every info I get is the national - populist government slashing Official development assistance (ODA)

 https://www.concern.org.uk/news/overseas-aid-budget-cuts-explained

 

Please share a credible exhaustive source with us. i. e. not a tabloid nor a UK government or consultancy firm payed by said government. 

I seem to have touched a raw nerve with you.

 

However I'm confused, can you let me know which of my statements you do not believe?

 

Is it that fact that "currently" the the UK has donated $735 million to Covax to help the developing world have vaccines. The EU has donated $489 million.

 

Or the fact that the UK will donate all surplus vaccines to poorer countries?

 

The links you are selectively demanding, well its just a case of pasting into Google to find credible sources so I will go ahead and let you do that. For anyone else, if you require credible links, not from tabloids....lol just let me know and I'll supply.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

You responded that to a claim made by a user 

that (1) “[the EU has] millions of doses instorage unused” because (2) “of its “distrust” of it”.
 

Since you replied to that by posting an article that is debunking those claims, maybe I misunderstood you and you actually wanted to debunk those claims and say that the EU recommended using the vaccine whereas certain countries such as Germany et. al. are storing unused doses. 
 

 

 

Actually I was just supplying some facts which seem to be lacking in this thread

Edited March 22, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Blue Muton]

24 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Sorry to disppoint but completely true

If it was the EU exporting to other countries why would they put an authorisation mechanism in place before they can export

That is the EU wishing to export so they send a request to themselves requesting approval for export which is then granted by themselves

 

Not sure if you're just trolling, it certainly seems like it. What you've written is not relevant to the facts that I posted. I'll make it as simple as I can:

 

I Posted:

 

Vaccine doses produced in the UK and exported to EU member states - no evidence of any...........

 

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to the UK - 8 million.

 

You Replied:

 

No Facts in your post 

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

38 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Well it's not exactly news, it was over a month ago but somebody was obviously not that up to date with their information.

Have to give Statista a nudge about it too, they also missed the memo https://www.statista.com/chart/24244/donations-to-covax-by-country/

[Blue Muton]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Have to give Statista a nudge about it too, they also missed the memo https://www.statista.com/chart/24244/donations-to-covax-by-country/

 

A pledge is not something that has already been given, it's a commitment to do so in the future. Happy to clear up your little misunderstanding.

 

 

BTW your chart is over a month out of date.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Blue Muton

[Hi from France]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Is it that fact that "currently" the the UK has donated $735 million to Covax to help the developing world have vaccines. The EU has donated $489 million.

 

Or the fact that the UK will donate all surplus vaccines to poorer countries?

 

The links you are selectively demanding, 

 

I'm not really "demanding" I'm just telling you that personally I do not find UK government or UK government signature credible. Especially promises to take part in foreign aid.

 

For the purpose of our debate I would find a Guardian article or another source comparing vaccines really produced and sent by the EU and the UK. 

 

If you take promises by the present UK government for granted, I believe that you are making a mistake. Now you are free to do so! 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Not sure if you're just trolling, it certainly seems like it. What you've written is not relevant to the facts that I posted. I'll make it as simple as I can:

 

I Posted:

 

Vaccine doses produced in the UK and exported to EU member states - no evidence of any...........

 

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to the UK - 8 million.

 

You Replied:

 

No Facts in your post 

 

 

 

 

Why would the AZ production plants export to any other country until they supplied the UK with the 100 million doses

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to other countries approx 33 million including 8 million to the UK

These are vaccines mainly exported by pfizer biontech who have fullied their contract with the EU and these doses are surplus to EU requirements

[cocoonclub]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Actually I was just supplying some facts which seem to be lacking in this thread

And I appreciate you supplied some facts debunking the claims another user made. 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

 

A pledge is not something that has already been given, it's a commitment to do so in the future. Happy to clear up your little misunderstanding.

 

 

BTW your chart is over a month out of date.

Ah rather like a promise then, well I never, thanks for clearing that up, still good news though!!

 

Not my chart, thanks.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, cocoonclub said:

And I appreciate you supplied some facts debunking the claims another user made. 

You are most welcome sir

Edited March 22, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Why would the AZ production plants export to any other country until they supplied the UK with the 100 million doses

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to other countries approx 33 million including 8 million to the UK

These are vaccines mainly exported by pfizer biontech who have fullied their contract with the EU and these doses are surplus to EU requirements

That has ZERO relevance to the facts that I posted, it does not negate what I posted in any way. Now I'm certain that you're trolling so just don't bother replying any more because I'm not playing your silly little game.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I do not find UK government or UK government signature credible. Especially promises to take part in foreign aid.

 

For the purpose of our debate I would find a Guardian article or another source comparing vaccines really produced and sent by the EU and the UK. 

 

If you take promises by the present UK government for granted, I believe that you are making a mistake. Now you are free to do so! 

Says it all really....................................

[Hi from France]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Revealed: The true, stark facts versus the EU's fiction and attacks on the UK

EU President defames UK, yet UK pledged 50% more vaccines than EU to poorer countries

https://facts4eu.org/news/2021_mar_eu_fiction

 

I do not want to sound rude, but as you probably know,  facts4eu is a coalition of extremist Brexit groups. 

[Blue Muton]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Revealed: The true, stark facts versus the EU's fiction and attacks on the UK

EU President defames UK, yet UK pledged 50% more vaccines than EU to poorer countries

https://facts4eu.org/news/2021_mar_eu_fiction#

European Union[edit]

As of November 2020, the European Union (EU) and EU members have pledged €870 million to COVAX. The European Commission (EC) brought the EU into COVAX on 31 August 2020 and pledged €400 million in guarantees, but did not state how this money would be paid out or its conditions. The EC pledged a further €100 million from the 11th European Development Fund to COVAX via a grant to GAVI on 12 November. Individual EU member states have also made additional pledges; France donated an additional €100 million, Spain an additional €50 million, and Finland an additional €2 million.^[19]

According to the Foreign Office of the Federal Republic of Germany, Germany has joined COVAX through the European Union and has pledged €300 million for the treatment of COVID-19 in developing nations.

United Kingdom

The United Kingdom has provided £548 million to Covax. No vaccines have been exported by UK.

The United Kingdom was the biggest single donor to COVAX-AMC until being overtaken by Germany and the United States.

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVAX#Participants_(donors)}

 

 

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, Hi from France said:

 

I do not want to sound rude, but as you probably know,  facts4eu is a coalition of extremist Brexit groups. 

Which would explain the fake news chart that omitted Germany and other EU member states.

[Hi from France]

5 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Which would explain the fake news 

... the question is why it appears here and now

 

I'm not sure the rules of this forum say something about spreading fake news

 

Now back on topic: will our EU stop delivering the UK? And if so, will the British government retaliate? 

 

 

In the UK, things are going pretty well at the moment and I think this means "no" 

Quote

UK ministers have urged the EU to stand by its commitments on vaccine supplies ahead of expected discussions between Boris Johnson and European counterparts over a row centred on a production plant in the Netherlands.

 

Quote

Helen Whately, the care minister, repeatedly refused to say if the UK would hit back if Brussels placed an export ban on vaccines amid a bitter disagreement over contracts to supply the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

“I don’t think it’s very helpful to speculate at the moment,”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/22/britain-urges-eu-meet-commitments-covid-vaccine-supplies

 

all bets are off, I think BJ will try to look good but will have to admit that the EU is doing the best thing. 

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

... the question is why it appears here and now

 

I'm not sure the rules of this forum say something about spreading fake news

 

Now back on topic: will our EU stop delivering the UK? And if so, will the British government retaliate? 

 

 

In the UK, things are going pretty well at the moment and I think this means "no" 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/22/britain-urges-eu-meet-commitments-covid-vaccine-supplies

 

all bets are off, I think BJ will try to look good but will have to admit that the EU is doing the best thing. 

When you talk about fake news are you referring to the person that posted "The AZ was untested with 65+ but the Brits injected it nonetheless starting with their 65+"

Which we know that statement is false 

[vinny41]

The Governments Donating The Most Money To COVAX

https://www.statista.com/chart/24244/donations-to-covax-by-country/

 

As we can see the UK is in 3rd place behind Germany and the US in 4th place is the EU

in 4th place is the EU

[vinny41]

The UK has been Gavi’s largest donor since its inception in 2000, playing a leading role in immunising a whole generation – over 760 million children – and helping to halve child mortality in 73 developing countries over the past two decades

https://www.gavi.org/news/media-room/gavi-welcomes-uk-funding-pledge

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

European Union[edit]

As of November 2020, the European Union (EU) and EU members have pledged €870 million to COVAX. The European Commission (EC) brought the EU into COVAX on 31 August 2020 and pledged €400 million in guarantees, but did not state how this money would be paid out or its conditions. The EC pledged a further €100 million from the 11th European Development Fund to COVAX via a grant to GAVI on 12 November. Individual EU member states have also made additional pledges; France donated an additional €100 million, Spain an additional €50 million, and Finland an additional €2 million.^[19]

According to the Foreign Office of the Federal Republic of Germany, Germany has joined COVAX through the European Union and has pledged €300 million for the treatment of COVID-19 in developing nations.

United Kingdom

The United Kingdom has provided £548 million to Covax. No vaccines have been exported by UK.

The United Kingdom was the biggest single donor to COVAX-AMC until being overtaken by Germany and the United States.

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVAX#Participants_(donors)}

 

 

The Chart is related to GAVI for the years 2016-2020 not Covax which is a seperate project 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAVI

[Scott]

A post from an unapproved source has been reported and removed. 

 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I

Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries

Despite earlier promises, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply. The UK slammed the move as "counterproductive."

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274

ts more that just the UK that the EU wouldn't be exporting to

 

How many has the UK shared?

[Monokuro]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

Vaccine doses produced in the UK and exported to EU member states - no evidence of any...........

 

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to the UK - 8 million.

 

 

I don't see your point here.

 

The UK only manufactures AZ, and, by their contract gets the first 100m doses, so why would they be exporting any?

 

The eu doesn't have that contract, so their manufactured product is sent around the whole world....

 

As soon as the UK have their 100m contracted quota then they will start exporting.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

How many has the UK shared?

Simply answer I don't know but I would suspect that the UK wouldn't share vaccine while there is another 26 million people in the UK that need to be vaccinated with the 1st dose and approx 50 million people in the UK that required to be vaccinated with the 2nd dose

Those numbers include Scotland where 44% of the population has received their 1st dose so still a long way to go for the other 56% of the population to receive their 1st dose and then the entire population of Scotland to receive their 2nd dose

Scotland’s vaccination programme has delivered first doses of the coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine to more than two million people  – 44% of the adult population.

https://www.gov.scot/news/vaccination-programme-reaches-two-million-people/

Mr Johnson will also confirm on Friday that the UK will share the majority of any future surplus coronavirus vaccines from its supply with the COVAX vaccine-sharing programme to support developing countries.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pm-pledges-uks-surplus-vaccines-to-poorer-nations-as-he-calls-on-g7-to-set-100-day-target-for-new-jabs-12222233

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

Now back on topic: will our EU stop delivering the UK? And if so, will the British government retaliate? 

In the UK, things are going pretty well at the moment and I think this means "no" 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/22/britain-urges-eu-meet-commitments-covid-vaccine-supplies

 

all bets are off, I think BJ will try to look good but will have to admit that the EU is doing the best thing. 

But you've already said you believe nothing the UK government says, so when you discuss or speculate what they do now, its totally irrelevant correct?

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Simply answer I don't know but I would suspect that the UK wouldn't share vaccine while there is another 26 million people in the UK that need to be vaccinated with the 1st dose and approx 50 million people in the UK that required to be vaccinated with the 2nd dose

Those numbers include Scotland where 44% of the population has received their 1st dose so still a long way to go for the other 56% of the population to receive their 1st dose and then the entire population of Scotland to receive their 2nd dose

Scotland’s vaccination programme has delivered first doses of the coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine to more than two million people  – 44% of the adult population.

https://www.gov.scot/news/vaccination-programme-reaches-two-million-people/

Mr Johnson will also confirm on Friday that the UK will share the majority of any future surplus coronavirus vaccines from its supply with the COVAX vaccine-sharing programme to support developing countries.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pm-pledges-uks-surplus-vaccines-to-poorer-nations-as-he-calls-on-g7-to-set-100-day-target-for-new-jabs-12222233

 

Right so you are happy to see the UK not share with anyone until its finished its program of vaccinations but are apoplectic over the EU now starting to retaliate by not allowing its vaccines to be shared. 

[Monokuro]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Right so you are happy to see the UK not share with anyone until its finished its program of vaccinations but are apoplectic over the EU now starting to retaliate by not allowing its vaccines to be shared. 

That news article quote confused me too, it did seem pretty hypocritical.

 

I think it relates more to the banning of exports, rather then an EU country giving up some of their own supply.

 

It seems that the EU believe that any vaccine produced in the EU belongs to them unless they allow another country to have it, when really, it should be down to AZ and the signed contracts to decide where it goes.

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Monokuro said:

That news article quote confused me too, it did seem pretty hypocritical.

 

I think it relates more to the banning of exports, rather then an EU country giving up some of their own supply.

 

It seems that the EU believe that any vaccine produced in the EU belongs to them unless they allow another country to have it, when really, it should be down to AZ and the signed contracts to decide where it goes.

 

But the UK also has a contract with AZ and is not allowing any vaccine produced in the UK to go anywhere else. In the EU's contract it actually stipulates that the UK manufacturing sites should also be included in its supply chain.

This however does not seem to be happening.