Health insurance age bracket increase 60-64 Ouch !!!

[rumak]

  12 hours ago, rumak said:

Eat well and exercise .   Do not walk into the street drunk.

 

"You're asking a lot here...."  (Tonray )

 

yes,  I am taking into account a certain demographic that read TV .     ????

 

many will read my post as ......    no exercise.    get drunk.   walk into the street when eating ...

" No worries mate.   I am no fool.   I have insurance "

Edited March 23, 2021 by rumak

[bprinceuk]

53 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Something to consider for any future policy that the broker comes up with, the previous provider didn't have any deductibles, i.e. it covered you for what it did and would pay out up to what it would, so no choice there.

 

The above said, I like the idea of deductibles to reduce the policy cost.

I  took this option and my quoted premium dropped from 168k to 96k , with two years no claims, it has dropped to 84k

[ctxa]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Was that a typo, $500 USD, if that's the case, that was a grave mistake on your path, the increased amount went up from $2325 USD to $3,690 USD, suffice to say that is for emergency and elective surgery cover up to 1.2 mil USD

 

Yeah, back then in China I had a health insurance with AXA which would have covered up to 100,00 USD for emergency surgery, and the cost was around 500 USD per year. 3 months after I decided to self insure and stopped paying it, on the 1st of January of 2020 I broke my hand (4th and 5th metacarpal open fracture with damage to a hell lot of structures in the hand) and needed a 6 hours surgery to reconstruct that part of the hand which amounted to almost 15,000 USD and which I obviously had to self-pay. And mind you that it was a Chinese Government Hospital, had it been a private hospital the costs would been 3x as higher (tho, it’s worth mentioning that in China the best doctors work for the government, private hospitals in China are super expensive and are far from good) 
 

So yes, a very grave mistake which set me 15k lighter. My initial thought process was: “Hey I haven’t been to the hospital a single time in the past like 3 years. If this goes on for 10 more years I am saving 5K. Too bad I didn’t realize that an expensive accident could come any moment” 

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

suffice to say for what the policy was covering for me, with no outpatient and only being for emergency or elective surgery,

Oh wow, I think you have a very bad insurance. Mind you that we probably are in complete opposite age ranges (which I know that it matters a lot to insurance companies). 

But this whole past year that I’ve been in Bangkok, I’ve used the Standard Extra Plan from Pacific Cross Insurance, which in my age range (19-25) is 13,XXX THB per year! Even for the oldest age group which goes until 72 IIRC the price was around 40,XXX THB per year. And it covers a lot of things, I understand that this may also not be the most suitable plan for you, as you might also want higher coverage in case of IPD surgery… 

 

… But I am sure that either your that broker you talk about or a different one will be able to find something of the similar conditions for a better  price! 

Edited March 23, 2021 by ctxa

[4MyEgo]

11 minutes ago, ctxa said:

Oh wow, I think you have a very bad insurance.

 

Actually this was the only health care provider that would cover my pre-existing condition, so it was a must for me to go with them. That said, I told the broker in the email that while he is looking around for a new health care provider, if he can't find one that will cover the pre-existing condition, that's ok, but to find one again, with no outpatient cover and deductibles which should lower the policy this time around.

 

As I said before, cover here is a must because the outlay can be a stinger, just a week in a private hospital could cost you a million baht with minimal surgery, I have more than enough in the bank to cover me for my pre-existing condition if it every needed treatment, so when you can't get that covered at a reasonable cost, might as well get everything else covered for a reasonable cost and hope for the best, but with reserves to cover the pre-existing condition.

 

What's that old saying, if its not on, it's not covered ????

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[offset]

I have a 40000 baht deductible which saved me 45000 baht on the premium which saves me money both ways

[rumak]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Not everyone is in the same condition and it should be done like car insurance companies do, i.e. no claim, annual bonus reduction, e.g. 10% up to 60% the latter being no claims for 6 years, now that is not saying that the insurance policy doesn't also increase with inflation etc.

great post.   the things in life that i think are fair I have no problem paying for.   I have had car insurance for 15 years (at least) .... and I am now paying HALF of what the policy originally charged !   True.    I never cringe when the yearly bill comes,  and certainly won't regret if I never need to use it.   The company wins.   And I feel like they have rewarded me for not having claims.  

 

Now health insurance !   Well,  i think i have let my feeling be known quite well.   Its an ever increasing, non negotiable premium that i refuse to take part in.   

[Sheryl]

17 hours ago, gearbox said:

I never had any insurance here, except now when I had to get Thai insurance covering covid to enter the country.

My Australian travel insurance pre-covid times had unlimited medical coverage and most importantly evacuation cover. Thai medical insurance is not going to evacuate me to Australia.

It is cheaper to fly 2 times per year to Oz and get travel insurance than to insure here. The travel insurance covers you in other countries and I used to travel a lot pre-covid.

If you have had travel insurance then you have had insurance while here.

 

Travel insurance is certainly one option provided one understands its limits, is not away from home country longer than the policy allows, maintains eligibility for free care back home and is prepared to have to travel back to home country for all but emergency treatment. Because the travel insurance company reserves the right to choose to pay for treatment in the country where you are or to repatriate you back home for care there and in the case of non-life threatening conditions will often opt for the latter.

 

I recall a recent case of someone with a fractured leg or other leg injury needing further surgery followed by rehab. His travel insurance refused to pay to have it done in Thailand,  and rather offered to pay for business class seat to fly back home so that he could keep the leg elevated in flight. A perfectly reasonable offer as his condition was not life threatening and he was fit to fly. But not at all what he wanted.

 

 

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Actually this was the only health care provider that would cover my pre-existing condition, so it was a must for me to go with them. That said, I told the broker in the email that while he is looking around for a new health care provider, if he can't find one that will cover the pre-existing condition, that's ok, but to find one again, with no outpatient cover and deductibles which should lower the policy this time around.

 

As I said before, cover here is a must because the outlay can be a stinger, just a week in a private hospital could cost you a million baht with minimal surgery, I have more than enough in the bank to cover me for my pre-existing condition if it every needed treatment, so when you can't get that covered at a reasonable cost, might as well get everything else covered for a reasonable cost and hope for the best, but with reserves to cover the pre-existing condition.

 

What's that old saying, if its not on, it's not covered ????

 

 

As  more time has passed since you got this policy, and without any further recurrence of your pre-exisitng condition, might  be less of an  issue this time.

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Why not.

 

If you do your research you will find that it's the younger ones, e.g. age brackets 50-54 and 54-59 and 60-64 which are subsidising the most claims which are for those in the higher age brackets who make claims, e.g. 85 plus, then 74-85 and then 65-74.

 

Males 60 year up to 64 years are the ones who get the sharpest increases, that is why most drop off paying for their premiums when they get hit with a whopping 60% increase when it's time to renew their policy when they reach 60 years of age.

 

Not everyone is in the same condition and it should be done like car insurance companies do, i.e. no claim, annual bonus reduction, e.g. 10% up to 60% the latter being no claims for 6 years, now that is not saying that the insurance policy doesn't also increase with inflation etc.

 

The simplest way would be to leave the premium as it is, and or increase it a little, e.g. 10% per annum instead of going for the jugular, and increase the policy sharply for those that have made claims, after all, they are the ones putting pressure on the system and that is why we have private health cover, suffice to say for those of us in good health and not making claims, get the raw end of the deal if we don't renew and take the 60% increase up the rear, so to speak.

 

Yes they are in business to make money, but why penalise those who don't put pressure on the system and are in good health ?

And what you describe is happening, i.e. bonus for not using the health insurance, better prices for people who had the insurance for many years, etc..

And obviously that is not all the same for all insurance companies. A long time ago in a country far away I worked for a health insurance broker. We compared more than 40 different private health insurance companies and all companies had several options. There was almost always a good option for anybody. The problem was to find the right one. And then there are obviously the commissions which the companies pay which vary enormously. Most sales guys are not interested to sell the insurances with low commission.

Personally I have a special insurance from my company so I don't have the hassle to find the best one for myself. I know it's a huge hassle, especially for foreigners away from their home countries.

[BigStar]

18 hours ago, rumak said:

Anyone healthy and 40 years old (or less).   Start putting just HALF the amount of the average policy into a mutual fund or some form of investment.   Each year continue at the same rate as the "new price".

Eat well and exercise .   Do not walk into the street drunk.   I guarantee 80 % of you will have a nice nest egg when you are in your 60's.      (if someone doesn't snatch it   ????

Or, get paid for working a couple of years or more at a Thai company or school, get on Thai SS, after leaving keep paying the health insurance premiums for less than B500/mo, and get the free care & prescriptions at Thai public hospitals for life.

[Sheryl]

Just now, BigStar said:

Or, get paid for working a couple of years or more at a Thai company or school, get on Thai SS, after leaving keep paying the health insurance premiums for less than B500/mo, and get the free care & prescriptions at Thai public hospitals for life.

 

Getting under Thai SS is certainly the most affordable option is one can do it.

 

but note that private schools are nto under the scheme, they are for some reason exempt. So teaching job may not help.

[NancyL]

When Hubby and I were faced with a big jump in health insurance cost we talked with our broker and substantially reduced the annual premiums by increasing the deductible and downgrading the policy.  Why had we selected a policy with maternity and in-patient mental health coverage anyway, for our retirement years?  

[BigStar]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

Getting under Thai SS is certainly the most affordable option is one can do it.

 

but note that private schools are nto under the scheme, they are for some reason exempt. So teaching job may not help.

Yep, one must be sure the institution is under the scheme, of course. Not sure about private Thai unis--I recall at least one under it.

[4MyEgo]

24 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

As  more time has passed since you got this policy, and without any further recurrence of your pre-exisitng condition, might  be less of an  issue this time.

 

The broker just sent me a new insurer to look at, no mention of pre-existing coverage, but the name is April My Health International Plan and they have a few types of packages and the one he is suggesting is called Essential for $2,440 USD, it has hospitalization for emergency and accident coverage for up to 1 mil USD, no outpatient coverage and a $500 USD deductible.

 

The other policy I was on up till yesterday was with David Shield, or PassportCard, I was paying $2,325 USD with the pre-existing condition being covered, which jumped to $3,690 USD with the pre-existing condition at age 60 suffice to say if I took out the additional cost of $60 a month for the pre-existing coverage, the policy would be $2,970 USD, so when I look at this as a whole, I am better off $530 USD with April My Health International plan, albeit it the cover is 200,000 USD less and my pre-existing condition is not covered.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, but coverage is a must, even without the pre-existing condition being covered.

 

I tend to agree with you regarding the pre-existing condition, i.e. haven't had an issue since 2008 and is less likely to be a problem if I continue living the way I do with a good diet, exercise and keep taking my meds.

 

So all up it's $1,250 USD savings in my pocket but with no pre-existing coverage.

 

Now to go through all of the fine prints and how much per day they cover and for what and what rooms are provided etc etc

 

Anyone heard of these guys ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[offset]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

great post.   the things in life that i think are fair I have no problem paying for.   I have had car insurance for 15 years (at least) .... and I am now paying HALF of what the policy originally charged !   True.    I never cringe when the yearly bill comes,  and certainly won't regret if I never need to use it.   The company wins.   And I feel like they have rewarded me for not having claims.  

 

Now health insurance !   Well,  i think i have let my feeling be known quite well.   Its an ever increasing, non negotiable premium that i refuse to take part in.   

 

Some health insurance do give no claims bonus

[rumak]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Or, get paid for working a couple of years or more at a Thai company or school, get on Thai SS, after leaving keep paying the health insurance premiums for less than B500/mo, and get the free care & prescriptions at Thai public hospitals for life.

 

I assume you posted because you were able to do this.   Sounds like a good plan , especially if you are allowed to stay on the insurance after leaving the job.   

 

I for one never worked for someone else after the age of 23.   ( Unhireable)   hahaha

so i just made it on my own.  

[Sheryl]

Yes, many members including myself have April.

 

Note that there are 2 different April My Health policies: one from April Thailand and one from April France. Find out which this is.

 

April Thailand is good as Thai-issued policies go, arguably the best, but (1) renewal is guaranteed only up to age 90 (that may seem plenty now but won';t if you live to 89!) and (2) being Thai issued they can legally raise your rates on basis of claim history though they have historically opted not to do so.

 

I have April My Health from France and have been happy with it.

 

Not sure why you assume your pre-existing would nto be covered. You won't know until you apply. They do pretty thorough medical underwriting and, if their form elicits your history (only will if they ask that far back) they may contact you for more information and then may either cover it, exclude it or offer to include it at a higher rate.

 

In my case I have a mild thyroid problem for which I take medication, they offered me option of higher premium or exclusion and I chose exclusion. I might have been able to get out of that had I been able to meet their requests for detailed medical reports, test results etc but it is a very minor problem for which I have not needed to see a doctor in many years and I did not feel like going to all that trouble and unnecessary expense.

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, offset said:

 

Some health insurance do give no claims bonus

 

yes, they do - but these same ones usually also raise rates on you if you have a large claim (on top of the usual age related increases). More than few people have found themselves completely priced out as a result. Being healthy now is no guarantee of forever remaining so and the last thing you want is to be old, chronically ill, and no longer covered.

[rumak]

1 minute ago, offset said:

 

Some health insurance do give no claims bonus

 

is that the clause , long down page 6,  that says " No claims of yours will be accepted until we wear you down to ashes after you have made your 35th phone call ?"

[offset]

24 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

is that the clause , long down page 6,  that says " No claims of yours will be accepted until we wear you down to ashes after you have made your 35th phone call ?"

 

Never had a trouble with a claim but on small claims never had to pay any hospital bill

[topt]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Actually this was the only health care provider that would cover my pre-existing condition, so it was a must for me to go with them.

That seems to be the reason partly why there is such a big increase. I am with them and my renewal at the end of last year fell into the 60-64 age bracket and the premium is less than what you were paying. They increased the previously notified bracket price however by 9.3%. 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

42 minutes ago, topt said:

That seems to be the reason partly why there is such a big increase. I am with them and my renewal at the end of last year fell into the 60-64 age bracket and the premium is less than what you were paying. They increased the previously notified bracket price however by 9.3%. 

 

 

 

As my policy was renewed last year in May, a few months short of my 60th, there was a slight increase, probably as much as yours, however this May, I am well and truly 60.

 

Working backwards, if I take out the extra $60 USD that I pay extra monthly in the 60-64 age bracket for 1.2 Mil USD coverage, it comes to $2,970 USD.

 

Did they send you an email to go to their My Passport Card portal which showed the age bracket and new amount, because I find the 9.3% is probably for your premium being just under 60 ?

 

I was paying around 5,800 baht per month which is around 70,000 baht per annum, take out the $720 USD extra cover per annum and that comes to about 53,000 baht per annum.

 

How does that sound to you, e.g. if you paid a 9.3% increase of 53,000, that would take you to around 58,000 baht at 59 years of age.

 

If you paid a 9.3% increase at 60 years of age taking you into the 60-64 age bracket would you care to disclose what the annual amount is that you are paying ?

Edited March 23, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[beau thai]

OP: I might have settled for an increase of ONLY 60% but Cigna almost trebled my premiums when I reached a certain age although I had never claimed.

They said I had now reached a higher risk pool.  Well of course I had as, faced with trebling, only those who think they are at risk would stay, thereby creating that higher risk pool.

I would have paid for any medical screening they wanted me to have but they were not interested..

Self insuring, by saving for health costs specifically,  from an earlier age solves that problem- and avoids paying all the insurers huge overheads, and profits.

[topt]

5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

because I find the 9.3% is probably for your premium being just under 60 ?

2018/19 paid $1704 (£142 pm) as fell in the under 60 bracket

2019/20 paid $2076 ($173 pm) now in 60-64 bracket and as previously published.

2020/21 increased to $2268 ($189 pm) + 9.25%  - due to "medical inflation".........

 

Depending on renewal dates there may have been some small differences in the overall payment for the year.

 

The amounts for 18/19 were public knowledge via AA insure before I took out the policy - but any pre-existing conditions would have added extra premiums as you had.

[Airalee]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

If you do your research you will find that it's the younger ones, e.g. age brackets 50-54 and 54-59 and 60-64 which are subsidising the most claims which are for those in the higher age brackets who make claims, e.g. 85 plus, then 74-85 and then 65-74.

That’s where Obamacare was a gift to the insurance companies.  Roping in the 20 and 30 somethings who were uninsured and hitting them with a penalty if they didn’t buy in.

 

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes they are in business to make money, but why penalise those who don't put pressure on the system and are in good health ?

Easy pickings.  These days, it’s not acceptable (PC) for even a Physician to tell a person/patient that they should lose weight.

 

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Emergency and or elective surgery cover up to 1.2 mil USD, no deductibles, no outpatient.

Would you mind sharing the provider?   (by PM if you prefer). Never mind...I saw your subsequent post.  Thanks!

Edited March 23, 2021 by Airalee

[4MyEgo]

, 

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Note that there are 2 different April My Health policies: one from April Thailand and one from April France. Find out which this is.

 

Just confirmed it is the France based one.

 

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Not sure why you assume your pre-existing would nto be covered. You won't know until you apply. They do pretty thorough medical underwriting and, if their form elicits your history (only will if they ask that far back) they may contact you for more information and then may either cover it, exclude it or offer to include it at a higher rate.

 

That's good to know, thanks, will see what happens, i.e. if they provide additional cover for a set amount and if reasonable, I will take it, if it's over the top, will let the additional cover slide.

[Unify]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Change that to a few million baht, and I'd agree fully. it doesn't take a few million dollars to self insure in Thailand. Can be done with 3-5 million baht (though you need a contingency plan for how to replenish this amount if/when spent, or else a plan to repatriate at that point).

 

And indeed vast majority of supposedly "self insured" people here are not insured, period. Most in my experience do not even have separate funds put aside for medical costs let alone adequate funds.

 

People seem to think deciding to not have insurance, with no special savings or plan in place other than to just hope nothing happens or that it is easily affordable if it does, constitutes being "self insured". It does not. It constitutes being uninsured.

For US residents, repatriation may not be a valid option as insurance rates are much higher than the 120,000 baht/year that the OP mentioned, and 'self insure' would also require a lot more money put aside.

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

, 

 

Just confirmed it is the France based one.

 

 

That's good to know, thanks, will see what happens, i.e. if they provide additional cover for a set amount and if reasonable, I will take it, if it's over the top, will let the additional cover slide.

 

Then it is exactly what I have.

 

No problems or complaints. I had claims of over USD20,000 paid direct to the hospital after an emergency hospitalization.  Plus all the OPD follow up costs for 30 days after discharge.

 

BUT be aware that the essential plan will cover only a semi-private room and there are some hospitals which have only private rooms.

 

you might also ask them to ask Davpd Shield what your premium would be if you opted to drop the cover for the pre-exisitng. It is possible that this is where the big increase is coming from i.e. the added cost is likley not the same at all ages, but rather goes up with each change of age bracket.

[simon43]

[quote]

...Why had we selected a policy with maternity and in-patient mental health coverage anyway, for our retirement years?  

[/quote]

 

Because having kids in your 60s and 70s can send you crazy! ????

[simon43]

I also have the My April Essentials policy, and am very happy with the close attention that both April Insurance in France and AA Insurance Brokers in Thailand to remind me to pay the quarterly premium.  I was previously with David Shield, but was unhappy with their customer service.