Health insurance age bracket increase 60-64 Ouch !!!

[4MyEgo]

35 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Appreciate your time and efforts with this mate. I’ll have read through it later. First observations though...

 

•the tax office definitions I don’t think apply to me as I don’t work 
 

•I’m single with no family or relatives in Thailand. All family and relatives are in Sydney, my home city. 

 

•I have no fixed abode in Thailand. All I have is a late model car there, a suitcase full of “Lacoste” T shirts purchased from Thai markets ???? and enough cash to allow me to continually travel around all of Thailand 11 months of every year, dining out every meal and staying with different female friends and hotels along the way, for up to a week at a time. (God Bless Thailand’s beautiful beaches, warm weather .....and of course ThaiFriendly  ????)

 

•the registered address for my Thai car is at an ex girlfriend’s house who is ok with that.  Her address is also my “home base” for IO purposes. 

 

•the longest I stay anywhere is in Sydney at my friend’s house, my only fixed abode. Rent is paid and receipts issued for the 1 or 2 months of each year when I return home to see my mates and loved ones, take my car, motorcycle and boat for a spin and renew all of my Aus vehicle/boat registrations, licences, library memberships, sporting club memberships and credit cards - should they be due. 

 

I tell all of the above to my Aus travel insurance company every year prior to my annual Thai holiday, and of course they say I’m covered and take my money, but I’m listening to what you’re saying.

Again, thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it. 

 

Anytime, it's all a learning curve, but got to get it down pat.

 

You really didn't need to rub salt into ones wounds ????
 

I like your set up, free as a bird, reminds me of that Elvis Presley song, "return to sender" no such number, no such zone....lol

 

Sounds good, living the life of the free, only thing that concerns me is if you were declined a  claim based on their interpretation of your "residency status" as outlined in their policy, i.e. if challenged, and naturally your worst enemy wouldn't wish that on you because then you have to pay a lawyer to take it on, costs, costs, costs, while you have to fork out to the hospital to treat you or they will decline treating you, or GoFundMe page, not something anyone would want to go through.

 

If I were you, I would be going over the fine print of the policy and trying to highlight what defines a resident to them, and if I couldn't find that, I would be asking them to put it in writing, sort of clarification for your own personal needs to put with the policy. 

 

At least if they say they can't put it in writing then you know you have a potential problem.

Edited March 24, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

If I were you, I would be going over the fine print of the policy and trying to highlight what defines a resident to them, and if I couldn't find that, I would be asking them to put it in writing, sort of clarification for your own personal needs to put with the policy. 

 

At least if they say they can't put it in writing then you know you have a potential problem.

 

 

Good advice. Will do ????
 

Just saw this in their PDS :

 

”non-permanent residents who have a Medicare card (are covered)”. 

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Assuming you are insured by a Thai company, Thai insurers won't accept new clients over 65 because of the odds. However, they will continue policies for those previously insured by them.

I'm sure this isn't a ploy to get you to drop coverage at an age where they might actually have to pay out. 

 

Actually there are a few Thai insurers who will accept new enrollment up to age 75.

 

And some international insurers who will newly insure even older than that.

 

in any case OP is not insured by a Thai company. He has an international expat policy.

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

Until the dreaded lurgy raised it's ugly head I returned to Oz every two years to renew my O-A visa. My travel insurance was yearly with an option to extend for one year outside of Australia. In those two years periods I had "permissions to stay", not a retirement extension in sight with side trips into neighbouring countries when ever I saw fit. Never a resident of anywhere other than Oz.

 

Of course it's all rather moot now, since my second extension is due within the month.

 

A bit off topic, but am I correct to understand your travel insurer signed the "Foreign Insurance Certificate" required for the O-A visa? If so, which company is this?  Would be useful info for others

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

I will admit that, because I was covered by company insurance for so many years, I did look into Thai healthcare coverage. 

Looking into it, I found Thai insurance to be packaged like Thai car sales - this is the package/car, this is the price. Then, they will exclude pre-existing conditions without and reduction in premiums. At least with cars they wheel and deal accessories ...

And, global coverage, from different insurers looked into, would bankrupt me, same as any catastrophic illness! The difference is that the insurance would guarantee it! 

Another deterrent to acquiring Thai medical insurance is that, if one has ever been treated for anything, and anything that could be potentially related to it, will be excluded. So, Thai insurance would basically be money for nothing. 

 

There is no need to have "Thai insurance" to be insured in Thailand.

 

Many excellent expatriate policies issued by companies based in the west and specifically designed for people living in other than their country of nationality.

 

 

[LosLobo]

11 hours ago, Nemises said:

 

A medicare card (in Australia) is able to be kept by returning home just once every five years.

 

Hardly "strict".

Give Medicare a ring and ask them!

Edited March 24, 2021 by LosLobo

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

 

 

Good advice. Will do ????
 

Just saw this in their PDS :

 

”non-permanent residents who have a Medicare card (are covered)”. 

 

This can be tricky, because I can read that two ways.

 

1) It's for travel within Australia and must start in Australia after being purchased before you left Thailand for example to go to Australia ?

 

or

 

2) You purchase this is Australia before you depart Australia as the commencement place of the journey, that said, I take it then that you are a non-permanent resident (not a citizen of Australia), e.g. born outside of Australia who has a valid Medicare card ?

[rumak]

6 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

I’ve noticed before that expats in Thailand get heated over other expats continuing to buy health insurance as premiums rise. 

 

I did not find any posts from non insurers that to me were "heated"  or disrespectful.  

I did find this post by Bkk6060 however :

"The self insurers funny they never say how much they have.  Probably just can't afford a decent policy?

And self insured for what?  Your next STD?"

 

I really think it is the insurers that seem out of sorts with those that post differing opinions.

 

[UncleMhee]

32 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

A bit off topic, but am I correct to understand your travel insurer signed the "Foreign Insurance Certificate" required for the O-A visa? If so, which company is this?  Would be useful info for others

Sorry @Sheryl; that post is rather disjointed. That was my go to prior to mandated health insurance rather than the lurgy. My last O-A permission to stay ended April 2020. 

My main aim was to show that not everyone would be here on an extension of stay therefore indicating residency and how it could be achieved so as not to upset the Oz Government. It can still be achieved with the mandated insurance.

Open to you convincing me otherwise I believe @4MyEgo said.

Edited March 24, 2021 by UncleMhee

[Curt1591]

21 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

There is no need to have "Thai insurance" to be insured in Thailand.

 

Many excellent expatriate policies issued by companies based in the west and specifically designed for people living in other than their country of nationality.

 

 

Yes; but as I point out, the premiums would bankrupt most people before any medical emergency. 

[1FinickyOne]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Obviously people should read the fine print before they sign up.

Personally I have good experience with my health and other insurances. If they don't pay then normally they have a reason - see fine print. But that is only my personal experience. 

others mileage may vary... 

[Nemises]

20 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

This can be tricky, because I can read that two ways.

 

1) It's for travel within Australia and must start in Australia after being purchased before you left Thailand for example to go to Australia ?

 

or

 

2) You purchase this is Australia before you depart Australia as the commencement place of the journey, that said, I take it then that you are a non-permanent resident (not a citizen of Australia), e.g. born outside of Australia who has a valid Medicare card ?

The line above the yellow says you need to be an “Australian citizen” which I obviously am,  as such I am covered and the non-permanent stuff in yellow is mute... I think ????

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Nemises

[1FinickyOne]

7 hours ago, rumak said:

are you another one of those old guys living in a 3000 baht a month room and eating fried rice from the market ?  

old? and getting older every day...

 

Once I lived the life of a millionaire,
Spent all my money, I just did not care.
Took all my friends out for a good time,
Bought bootleg whiskey, champagne and wine.

Then I began to fall so low,
Lost all my good friends, I did not have nowhere to go.
I get my hands on a dollar again,
I'm gonna hang on to it till that eagle grins.

Cause no, no, nobody knows you
When you're down and out.
In your pocket, not one penny,
And as for friends, you don't have any.

 

 

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

Give Medicare a ring and ask them!

Already have rang Medicare (pre-Covid). They said “travel the world all you like, stay away for as long as you like, but just remember to come home to Aus every 5 years to pick up your new Medicare card!” Best outcome ever ????. Wish all other card renewals were that easy!

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Nemises

[piewarmer]

I had health insurance with no claims for years, in the mid 80's I made a $2K claim and they refused it, Haven't had medical insurance since then.

[Sheryl]

16 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

Yes; but as I point out, the premiums would bankrupt most people before any medical emergency. 

 

The problem with that is that anyone who would be bankrupted by insurance premiums is (1) living very close to the wire and (2) would be totally unable to pay out of pocket for a major health expense.

 

This is the crux of the matter. The only people who can actually self-insure (real self-insurance, not the nonsense some people talk about) are comparatively well off. (And they will often choose to nonetheless have insurance in order to protect their assets).

[rumak]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

old? and getting older every day...

 

Once I lived the life of a millionaire,
Spent all my money, I just did not care.
Took all my friends out for a good time,
Bought bootleg whiskey, champagne and wine.

Then I began to fall so low,
Lost all my good friends, I did not have nowhere to go.
I get my hands on a dollar again,
I'm gonna hang on to it till that eagle grins.

Cause no, no, nobody knows you
When you're down and out.
In your pocket, not one penny,
And as for friends, you don't have any.

 

 

 

maybe one of your old lovers will come knockin...........

 

 

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

This is the crux of the matter. The only people who can actually self-insure (real self-insurance, not the nonsense some people talk about) are comparatively well off. (And they will often choose to nonetheless have insurance in order to protect their assets).

 

OK,  i will agree with that.   BUT,  some will choose not to have insurance .  Personally, whether some think i was "risky" or not, i don't care.   It worked for me.   And at my age now, as others are finding out,  the cost for insurance is really high and the exclusions, deductibles, whatever...  are not very nice

 

Choosing to live in Thailand was always a risk.   But also a lifestyle choice that i will never regret.   No shoe fits all.    And though i am not as determined to be right as some on here,

I will repeat on every thread about health and insurance.............. that i believe the foolish ones are the ones that did not treat their body well .  Just as those that are not "really self insured"............. the vast majority of unhealthy individuals are not really smart because they can afford doctors and meds.     That time would have been long ago,  in the form of prevention.  

 

Even if one is in their fifties...... lifestyle changes can be made.

I asked the doctor at a clinic if many people were getting better from a certain therapy she offered.  She said " No, they are not willing to change their habits"  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by rumak

[rumak]

1 hour ago, piewarmer said:

I had health insurance with no claims for years, in the mid 80's I made a $2K claim and they refused it, Haven't had medical insurance since then.

 

Believe me......... you are one of millions and millions who pay and pay only to be refused when you need it.   This is not some secret ! 

 

[Curt1591]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

The problem with that is that anyone who would be bankrupted by insurance premiums is (1) living very close to the wire and (2) would be totally unable to pay out of pocket for a major health expense.

 

This is the crux of the matter. The only people who can actually self-insure (real self-insurance, not the nonsense some people talk about) are comparatively well off. (And they will often choose to nonetheless have insurance in order to protect their assets).

It was sarcastic hyperbole. 

Life is a gamble. Insurance companies set their own odds

I'm covering my own bets with readily available assets and continuing annuities.

Although never needed, the times I have faced expensive procedures, my in-laws have always offered to cover the expenses. 

And no, they wouldn't have to sell off their buffalo ...

 

 



 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, Nemises said:

The line above the yellow says you need to be an “Australian citizen” which I obviously am,  as such I am covered and the non-permanent stuff in yellow is mute... I think ????

 

 

 

 

Yes, if buying a travel insurance policy you basically have to be a resident/citizen of the country issuing it when travelling abroad, however I would ask that you look further into the policy to see what they say about your usual place of residency, remember that word Abode I mentioned earlier, that is the sticky part, that said, I love looking through policy fine prints, if it's too much of a hassle, just tell me who the provider is and what travel plan it is and I can Google it. 

 

Nothing to lose, but everything to gain.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Already have rang Medicare (pre-Covid). They said “travel the world all you like, stay away for as long as you like, but just remember to come home to Aus every 5 years to pick up your new Medicare card!” Best outcome ever ????. Wish all other card renewals were that easy!

 

 

 

 

This is true, and every time you go back, be it 12 months, or 3 years, the date renews, what I do before the expiry date was apply online for another card, they send it to my mates address back in Oz and he gave it to my daughter who gave it to me when she visited me.

[4MyEgo]

On 3/23/2021 at 9:25 PM, Sheryl said:

you might also ask them to ask Davpd Shield what your premium would be if you opted to drop the cover for the pre-exisitng. It is possible that this is where the big increase is coming from i.e. the added cost is likley not the same at all ages, but rather goes up with each change of age bracket.

 

I went back to the broker and asked if David Shield/PassportCard would be prepared to negotiate, my reason being is that yes I have a pre-existing condition and that I really do want that covered and expect to pay extra for that which was the case previously, however didn't expect such a large rise in the premium, i.e. $2,325USD including the pre-existing condition to $3,690USD, but like you said, it is more than likely the pre-existing cost rises along with the policy cost.

 

Long of the short the broker went to bat for me and came back with a 15% discount which brings it back to $3,136.50USD, so an overall increase of $811.50 USD is better than a $1,365USD and I still get to have my pre-existing coverage.

 

Some who self insurer (their prerogative) wouldn't agree, but to me it's a win/win because this premium covers me for 1 mil USD that's 31,000,000 baht, now I might not need it, but if I did, then the 97,000 baht or 269 odd baht per day, or 69 baht more per day on top of what I was previously paying, i.e. 200 baht per day which makes it very much worth it to me, and if I am unfortunate to have a mishap, my reserves remain the same as opposed to being potentially millions of baht down.

 

It's a big whack out of anyone's pocket and in anyone's language anyway you look at it, but it could also be a bigger whack out of your pocket if you got hit by a bus and survived it, so to speak.

Edited March 24, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[scubascuba3]

12 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I went back to the broker and asked if David Shield/PassportCard would be prepared to negotiate, my reason being is that yes I have a pre-existing condition and that I really do want that covered and expect to pay extra for that which was the case previously, however didn't expect such a large rise in the premium, i.e. $2,325USD including the pre-existing condition to $3,690USD, but like you said, it is more than likely the pre-existing cost rises along with the policy cost.

 

Long of the short the broker went to bat for me and came back with a 15% discount which brings it back to $3,136.50USD, so an overall increase of $811.50 USD is better than a $1,365USD and I still get to have my pre-existing coverage.

 

Some who self insurer (their prerogative) wouldn't agree, but to me it's a win/win because this premium covers me for 1 mil USD that's 31,000,000 baht, now I might not need it, but if I did, then the 97,000 baht or 269 odd baht per day, or 69 baht more per day on top of what I was previously paying, i.e. 200 baht per day which makes it very much worth it to me, and if I am unfortunate to have a mishap, my reserves remain the same as opposed to being potentially millions of baht down.

 

It's a big whack out of anyone's pocket and in anyone's language anyway you look at it, but it could also be a bigger whack out of your pocket if you got hit by a bus and survived it, so to speak.

You should definitely get a $1k+ deductible, you'll save $500+ a year, so two years of not claiming will pay for it

[Nemises]

44 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Yes, if buying a travel insurance policy you basically have to be a resident/citizen of the country issuing it when travelling abroad, however I would ask that you look further into the policy to see what they say about your usual place of residency, remember that word Abode I mentioned earlier, that is the sticky part, that said, I love looking through policy fine prints, if it's too much of a hassle, just tell me who the provider is and what travel plan it is and I can Google it. 

 

Nothing to lose, but everything to gain.

 

Would love to tell you the provider's name for you to check their fine print but they have temporary ceased issuing overseas travel insurance for obvious reasons. I found this out yesterday after visiting their website in search of their PDS's. There ain't none there, just the notice about suspending said insurance. The policy excerpt that I posted on here was attached to an email they sent me pre-covid.

 

Can forward that email to you but there's not much point until if and when they start issuing overseas insurance again. Moreover, all future international travel insurer's PDS's will surely be a lot different to the pre-covid policy that I have on file.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Nemises

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I went back to the broker and asked if David Shield/PassportCard would be prepared to negotiate, my reason being is that yes I have a pre-existing condition and that I really do want that covered and expect to pay extra for that which was the case previously, however didn't expect such a large rise in the premium, i.e. $2,325USD including the pre-existing condition to $3,690USD, but like you said, it is more than likely the pre-existing cost rises along with the policy cost.

 

Long of the short the broker went to bat for me and came back with a 15% discount which brings it back to $3,136.50USD, so an overall increase of $811.50 USD is better than a $1,365USD and I still get to have my pre-existing coverage.

 

 

 

Good outcome and kudos to AA brokers for doing that. Any conditions to get that 15% discount?

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

 

Believe me......... you are one of millions and millions who pay and pay only to be refused when you need it.   This is not some secret ! 

 

I had Geisinger Health in USA, long ago and they are known to be good... and they were and reasonable too [mostly] 

 

but I do remember seeing a 60 minutes expose and one guy who worked at an insurance co. said his job was to reject every first claim that came in.. it was just a game of percent for them as many people won't fight.. it is particularly despicable when people cheat in healthcare biz... that should be a special class of crime. 

[elliss]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:51 PM, ukrules said:

Unless you've got a few million spare dollars in the bank you're not really self insuring in any meaningful way are you

 

 

 

Absolutely Correct . 

Insurance Companies , dont care about your health .

They care about , their wealth ...

 

[Why Me]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Long of the short the broker went to bat for me and came back with a 15% discount which brings it back to $3,136.50USD, so an overall increase of $811.50 USD is better than a $1,365USD and I still get to have my pre-existing coverage.

Good for you and your broker. I too started with David Shield a few years ago and was happy with their service, never made a claim though, till a couple of years in when I got some data from AA Insurance which suggested a possible stupendous premium increase at the next age band which I was approaching. Your experience seems to bear that out but it's great negotiations limited the damage.

 

I didn't wait. Because I didn't want to risk crossing into a new age band and then finding other insurers giving me a hard time for wanting to join late. So I fled to April France a couple of year ago which you were considering as well. Again, haven't made a claim yet. But from what Sheryl said about her experience no worries dealing with them.

[gearbox]

On 3/23/2021 at 6:50 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

The only problem with travel insurance cover is that they are limited in what they pay and for how long they pay for, that and they do expire after a certain period.

 

Travel insurance is good for limited travel only and doesn't cover those of us who are non-residents, e.g. living out of their homeland for more than 6 months.

 

 

I agree it depends on your circumstances.  Every travel insurance provider requires that you are "resident" of some country where they can repatriate you...as soon as you get repatriated their job is done, no more payments.

The "resident" means two things - first whether "resident" is in the wording of the insurance policy. Some policies don't have this requirement in the wordings and implicitly assume the if you are citizen you are a resident too, or if you have PR visa you are eligible too. Sounds logical as say Australia would never refuse you entry if you get repatriated for medical reasons, and once you are within Australia you are off the insurer's books.

Secondly, and probably much more important is if you are getting dumped in the country you are citizen whether you have the "residency" to get free or low cost care.  AFAIK in Australia if you don't have Medicare card you need to pay. Other countries don't have these restrictions. So if one relies on travel insurance the possession of a valid Medicare card is a must.

 

For all intents and purposes I'm still an Australian resident although I spend most of my time overseas...I am "traveling".  I still have a private company there, bill Australian customers and pay taxes. I even have Medibank private insurance, although it is of little use to me, but I'll pay more tax than premiums if I don't have a private health insurance. I also have Australian phone number, pay broadband bills and have a car registered, plus tons of bank accounts and credit cards. I also spend in Australia 2 X 2 weeks every year (have many things to do ).

 

But even if you don't have the circumstances above, one can still be a resident.  We are allowed to travel and still be residents, but if required we may need to prove that we travel. It means for example that you don't have a PR or work visa from another country, and spending 99% of your time there. For myself it is easy to prove it, as I usually never spend more than 7 months in a single country per year.