14 minutes ago, candide said:

And our Brexiteer members would support their government for putting the interest of British people first! And blame treacherous Pfizer (which received around £300 million from the UK 6 months ago) for not supplying the ordered doses while diverting UK production to the EU! ????

I think you will find that it is both Breixteer and Remainers that are more than happy to accept any vaccine that is offered to them and are more than happy with the government for putting the interest of British people first!

I am not aware of any media reports where remainers have declined any vaccine that has been offered to them are you

I see in the Republic of Ireland people are fed up of waiting and travelling to the North in the hope of getting a jab there

Don't travel North for jab, says NI, as hundreds turned away

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0323/1205728-northern-ireland-vaccinations/

On 3/22/2021 at 11:26 PM, sammieuk1 said:

After years of being shot down by a Junker Boris has at last delivered on a promise and out gunned the fools of Brussels suck it up Ursula ????

Was it a Junker that caused chief muppet Boris's coiffure ?

1 hour ago, candide said:

Related news

Coronavirus: India temporarily halts Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine exports

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56513371

 

Given they have more than one billion inhabitants and currently produce 70 million doses a month

 

guess when they will export again... 

 

Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK, worse news for all those who did not even have a first jab

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Given they have more than one billion inhabitants and currently produce 70 million doses a month

 

guess when they will export again... 

 

Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK, worse news for all those who did not even have a first jab

I'm extremely confident that we'll vaccinate all our citizens long before France does.

16 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Given they have more than one billion inhabitants and currently produce 70 million doses a month

 

guess when they will export again... 

 

Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK, worse news for all those who did not even have a first jab

I know of 3 people that had their 2 jab recently and another 169,155 second doses were handed out on Tuesday 23rd March along with 28,653,523 that have received their 1st jab

41 minutes ago, polpott said:

I'm extremely confident that we'll vaccinate all our citizens long before France does.

This is irrelevant : vaccinating all UK citizens is not a priority, first we need to serve those who need it the most, and that includes people outside of selfish Britain.

 

 

 

Quote

Under the EU’s revised regulation published on Wednesday, countries with a high level of vaccination coverage or those that restrict exports through law or their contracts with suppliers risk having shipments to them prohibited.

rightly so: unlike the UK who is not only keeping its own production, but also taking production away from other countries who need is more, the EU also tries to be useful to the world as well as to its own citizens.

 

 

.. and you, don't you think the UK should do like the EU and export millions of doses instead of vaccinating all its citizens first, even those who have a very small chance of dying ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/uk-singled-out-for-failing-to-export-covid-vaccines-to-eu

 

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by Hi from France

24 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

This is irrelevant : vaccinating all UK citizens is not a priority, first we need to serve those who need it the most, and that includes people outside of selfish Britain.

 

 

 

rightly so: unlike the UK who is not only keeping its own production, but also taking production away from other countries who need is more, the EU also tries to be useful to the world as well as to its own citizens.

 

 

.. and you, don't you think the UK should do like the EU and export millions of doses instead of vaccinating all its citizens first, even those who have a very small chance of dying ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/uk-singled-out-for-failing-to-export-covid-vaccines-to-eu

 

Why should we? We're not in the EU, we have a duty to take care of our own citizens. Go tell it to the Americans who are taking the same line. We have no duty of care to EU citizens, that's down to the EU commission who failed you by dallying over ordering the vaccine. "You snooze, you lose."

 

You have to laugh when Macron disses the AZ vaccine then demands to be at the front of the queue to receive it.

 

We have a saying in the UK, "Put your own house in order first".

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by polpott

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

What makes you think the EU is creating problems with Astrazeneca? The EU approved it, did not suspend it (?), did recommend to start injecting again, bought it, wants more of it.

I think I've made it very clear why I think the EU is 'making problems' - not being rude but I'm not going to repeat everything. The EU's regulator approved the AZ vaccine - some EU members suspended it if you want to me to be 100% accurate. Sorry but the EU is supposed to be a group so when I say EU I mean all of them, collectively or individually.

 

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Would you not rather agree that The problem with AZ comes from

* the product itself

+ the disastrous scientific testing

+ the catastrophic production 

No I would not agree. On points 1 & 2, I refer you to the UK's use and approval of the product and its clearly successful outcome. On point 3, firstly, that we have any vaccine at all is a miracle - in just 12 months! Secondly, none of us are completely aware of exactly what production problems they are having - again its new! Astrazeneca's partner in India (the biggest producer) is having problems with the Indian government who, much like the EU, think they should get the vaccine first.

 

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

.. and that there are governments who are more risk-averse for their citizens: France, Germany, the USA, Sweden.... but not the EU itself  

That's up to them but they should not then moan when what they order is not 100% available. No company is going to sit on stock when other customers are crying out for it.

 

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

as for the  vaccine roll-out why is it so chaotic with the AZ but fine with the other vaccines? Maybe simply because they deliver and scientifically prove their safety

How do we know it is?  How do you explain Germany only being able to use 10% of the AZ stock they hold?

 

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

note the French PM went to great lengths to reassure about the AZ: he got vaccinated in public on Thursday.

A little late after Macron had already said it was qausi ineffective!

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by KhaoYai

3 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Everyone shares this principle, but putting state pressure on a laboratory to renounce its commitments in name of national privilege is simply odious.

Didn't happen. The government put pressure on AZ to fulfil its contract to the UK, which was made before the contract with the EU was signed. No pressure was put on AZ to renounce its contract with the EU.

50 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

This is irrelevant : vaccinating all UK citizens is not a priority, first we need to serve those who need it the most, and that includes people outside of selfish Britain.

 

 

 

rightly so: unlike the UK who is not only keeping its own production, but also taking production away from other countries who need is more, the EU also tries to be useful to the world as well as to its own citizens.

 

 

.. and you, don't you think the UK should do like the EU and export millions of doses instead of vaccinating all its citizens first, even those who have a very small chance of dying ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/uk-singled-out-for-failing-to-export-covid-vaccines-to-eu

 

On 19 January 2021, the European Commission adopted a Communication calling on Member States to speed up the roll out of vaccines across the EU. By the end of March 2021, at least 80% of people over the age of 80, and 80% of health and social care professionals in every Member State should get vaccinated. By summer 2021, Member States should have vaccinated a minimum of 70% of the entire adult population.

It not down to you to say who in the UK should be vaccinated and who shouldn't 

The UK hasn't vaccinated 70% of its population yet still a long way to go

If anyone is being selfish its the EU

I noticed that you have received your 1st vaccine last week are you prepared to forgo the 2nd vaccine so that your jab goes to a country more in need of it.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/public-health/eu-vaccines-strategy_en#:~:text=Speeding up vaccination in the EU,-On 19 January&text=By summer 2021%2C Member States,of the entire adult population.

52 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

rightly so: unlike the UK who is not only keeping its own production, but also taking production away from other countries who need is more, the EU also tries to be useful to the world as well as to its own citizens.

You might want to check out your assertion on that point.  To the best of my knowledge the UK has already donated vaccine to the Covax scheme and will donate more. When you talk of the UK keeping its own production, do you have any proof of that? Has the UK introduced any export bans?  I would remind you that these products are being made by private companies and the UK is a free country.  Other than contractual issues, the UK would have to enact a statute to prevent a private company from exporting a legal product.

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

This is irrelevant : vaccinating all UK citizens is not a priority, first we need to serve those who need it the most, and that includes people outside of selfish Britain.

The virus situation in the UK when the arguments between the EU/UK/AZ began was completely out of control - per capita we had one of the highest infection/death rates in the world. Urgent action was needed.

 

We now have the situation just about under control but it is now going wild in Europe. Should we completely ruin our vaccination programme now and go back to having 60,000 new cases per day and 2000 deaths?

 

I agree that we all need to think about other parts of the world and I think you will find that when the UK gets the majority of its population vaccinated, it will be one of if not THE most generous countries in the world.  We have that sort of spirit - as we showed in 1939 when we took on the battle to free Europe.

 

I would remind you that as far as I know, the only people to block vaccine exports at the moment is the EU (Italy-Australia).

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by KhaoYai

I suspect the EU main concern is  if the UK economy recovers earlier that the EU  economy due to full vaccine rollout  that would put the UK economy at an advantage

Is there anyone on this forum living in a tower block that on fire would tell their own family sorry but you going to have to look after yourself and get yourselfs out of the blazing building because I off to check that the neigbours are okay 1st.

No everyone looks out for their own family 1st and once they know their family is safe, they will try to help others if is safe to do so and without putting themselves at risk.

Similar for the leaders of each country

Its the responsibility of each country to take care of all people that are residing in that country 1st and once they have fully discharged that responsibility then they should assist other countries if they require assistance

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK, worse news for all those who did not even have a first jab

Would love to see one of your credible sources to back up that claim

50 minutes ago, polpott said:

Why should we? We're not in the EU, we have a duty to take care of our own citizens. Go tell it to the Americans who are taking the same line. We have no duty of care to EU citizens, that's down to the EU commission who failed you by dallying over ordering the vaccine. "You snooze, you lose."

We have to differ there. I'm not talking about EU/UK

 

I'm talking about humanity vs. your selfishness. I'm talking about the present UK reducing its international aid and letting people die.

 

 

We clearly have different values.

 

I do not mean you have to let you just citizen dies and "care for the world", of of course the EU will not do that.

 

But still the EU has been exporting millions of vaccines doses, while the UK keept it all with arguments like "You snooze, you lose". I do not think the UK is the good guy there, to say the least.

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

I know of 3 people that had their 2 jab recently and another 169,155 second doses were handed out on Tuesday 23rd March along with 28,653,523 that have received their 1st jab

The reason far mor people have had 1 shot as opposed to 2 is the 3 month waiting period between doses to achieve maximum efficacy. The vast majority of people have received their first dose within the last 3 months. When people receive their first dose they are immediately given an appointment for their 2nd dose. Those appointments are being honoured and over the coming weeks you will see the number of people having their 2nd dose rising rapidly.

PARIS (Reuters) - European leaders failed to see that COVID-19 vaccines would be developed as soon as they were and this was why rollouts in the EU now lagged behind some other countries, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview broadcast on Wednesday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-macron-idUKKBN2BG33P

1 minute ago, polpott said:

The reason far mor people have had 1 shot as opposed to 2 is the 3 month waiting period between doses to achieve maximum efficacy. The vast majority of people have received their first dose within the last 3 months. When people receive their first dose they are immediately given an appointment for their 2nd dose. Those appointments are being honoured and over the coming weeks you will see the number of people having their 2nd dose rising rapidly.

The issue is this is the bad news that our European members don't want to hear, they were hoping that the UK has used up its entire stock of vaccine so that the UK has to accept whatever deal the EU puts on the table as the UK would have no choice if there isn't sufficent vaccine available for the 2nd dose

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

We clearly have different values.

We do - and I would point out that you would be wearing Jack Boots and shouting 'Zieg Heil' now if it wasn't for us. Quite how someone from France can call us selfish is beyond me. Do you know how many of our young men died to liberate your country? It may be over 80 years ago but some of those young men might still have been alive today.

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

Given they have more than one billion inhabitants and currently produce 70 million doses a month

 

guess when they will export again... 

 

Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK, worse news for all those who did not even have a first jab

The UK vaccination program is doing fine thanks. You should be more concerned about the low level of vaccination across the EU countries due to the incompetence of the EU. 

You should aim your anger towards those in Brussels - for slow decision making leading to slow procurement and slow roll out. 

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

We have to differ there. I'm not talking about EU/UK

 

I'm talking about humanity vs. your selfishness. I'm talking about the present UK reducing its international aid and letting people die.

 

 

We clearly have different values.

 

I do not mean you have to let you just citizen dies and "care for the world", of of course the EU will not do that.

 

But still the EU has been exporting millions of vaccines doses, while the UK keept it all with arguments like "You snooze, you lose". I do not think the UK is the good guy there, to say the least.

I don't think that the average Brit cares a jot what the average Frenchman thinks of them. We're used to it. We've had 800 years of animosity, jealousy and bitterness wafting across the English Channel at us, despite our charity towards you in pulling you out of the mire in 2 world wars. Ingratitude is your middle name.

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

You should aim your anger towards those in Brussels - for slow decision making leading to slow procurement and slow roll out. 

Which is exactly why we have the current situation - deflection, a well practiced political tactic.

15 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

We have to differ there. I'm not talking about EU/UK

 

I'm talking about humanity vs. your selfishness. I'm talking about the present UK reducing its international aid and letting people die.

 

 

We clearly have different values.

 

I do not mean you have to let you just citizen dies and "care for the world", of of course the EU will not do that.

 

But still the EU has been exporting millions of vaccines doses, while the UK keept it all with arguments like "You snooze, you lose". I do not think the UK is the good guy there, to say the least.

Not according to your great leader

Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries

Despite earlier promises, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply. The UK slammed the move as "counterproductive."

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274

Note the wording "not ready" which implies that the EU hasn't shared any vaccine for use, they have shared vaccine for clinical trial testing and they have provided financial assistance likewise the UK has also provided financial assistance

 

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by vinny41
additional info

36 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

overall I think we have relatively minor differences ????

 

36 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I think I've made it very clear why I think the EU is 'making problems' - not being rude but I'm not going to repeat everything. The EU's regulator approved the AZ vaccine - some EU members suspended it if you want to me to be 100% accurate. Sorry but the EU is supposed to be a group so when I say EU I mean all of them, collectively or individually.

yeah I think you should be 100% accurate, and you know the motto of the EU "United in diversity".

 

and to say the least and stay polite, I'd say "there is a lot of diversity".

 

that's why the UK had a place in the EU by the way, but this is another topic

 

 

36 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No I would not agree. On points 1 & 2, I refer you to the UK's use and approval of the product and its clearly successful outcome. On point 3, firstly, that we have any vaccine at all is a miracle - in just 12 months!

yeah and btw the Sanofi/French attempt at the vaccine was not successful enough (not 50% efficient) but humanity-wise it was not stupid to try a technology different from all others and which did work on some illnesses don't you think?

 

 

 

I think this matter is played out now.

 

I've seen nothing that changes my mind on the fact that blame for the current problem between the EU/UK/AZ is 100% laid at the EU's feet.

 

I'm not afraid to criticise my country and I have absolultely no love for Boris Johnson. I believe his dithering and refusal to shut the UK's borders is the reason the virus ran amock in the UK. However, if he got one thing right, it was the vaccination programme.

 

Unless there's news, I'm done here.

I'd say the EU house of cards is tumbling down........................

37 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It not down to you to say who in the UK should be vaccinated and who shouldn't 

right

 

I cannot stop the UK from keeping every vaccine produced in the UK and giving none 

 

 

 

now as Ursula VDL says, we do have degree of responsibility over the vaccine we export

Quote

“Just since the introduction of the export authorisation [in January] some 10m doses have been exported from the EU to the UK and zero doses have been exported from the UK to the EU. So, if we discuss reciprocity, solidarity and say global responsibility, it is clear that we also need to look at those aspects of reciprocity and proportionality.”

are you shocked that we think that the vaccines we export should go first to countries that need it the most and take into account "reciprocity, solidarity and global responsibility"?

 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

How do we know it is?  How do you explain Germany only being able to use 10% of the AZ stock they hold?

I explain it by the mess done by AZ (and I hope this data is old and Germany does much better now). Note that even by the time this figure was right, it might be 20% if they keep the second jab instead of injecting the first and then wondering why there is not enough vaccine left to complete the process and not to have to start it all over again.

 

I guess you see what country I'm talking about 

 

 

55 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

How do we know it is?  How do you explain Germany only being able to use 10% of the AZ stock they hold?

.. and what do you say to the USA which have been able to use 0% of their AZ and are now sitting on tens of millions of doses?

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

right

 

I cannot stop the UK from keeping every vaccine produced in the UK and giving none 

 

 

 

now as Ursula VDL says, we do have degree of responsibility over the vaccine we export

are you shocked that we think that the vaccines we export should go first to countries that need it the most and take into account "reciprocity, solidarity and global responsibility"?

 

 

 

 

And she has stated that the EU is not ready to share has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply

What she hasn't stated  were the 10 million vaccines that entered the EU via another country for bottling purposes or were they testing trial vaccines going to other countries for development

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Would love to see one of your credible sources to back up that claim

seriously you think that India not delivering the millions of doses promised to the UK is a good news for the continuation of the UK vaccination campaign? You need a source for that? Really?