Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[lomtalay]

10 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Its written in the Nationality act that "the candidate must have an occupation"

So it depends on how the officer of the day interprets it.

 

My friend who naturalized in 2020 was asked for WP at his District Office (Bangrak) before they could issue his ID card.

 

So nothing is set in stone.

 

If you, by any chance loose your WP/retire, I would suggest not to mention of it, when asked for.

That's interesting, thank you. As always, Thai bureaucracy moves in mysterious ways...

[sidneybear]

On 6/23/2024 at 3:56 PM, GarryP said:

The National Health Security Office website provides all the information you will need about this scheme and avenues to register. But you'll need to use the Thai language version as the English version is very limited in the information it provides. (https://www.nhso.go.th/home)

When I check my ID on that NHSO website, I get the following - it lists my rights as:

 

ข้อมูลสิทธิ
สิทธิที่เข้ารับบริการ :
บุคคลต่างด้าว

 

It lists me as a permanent resident (dang dao), rather than a citizen. Do other naturalised Thai get this?

[GarryP]

43 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

When I check my ID on that NHSO website, I get the following - it lists my rights as:

 

ข้อมูลสิทธิ
สิทธิที่เข้ารับบริการ :
บุคคลต่างด้าว

 

It lists me as a permanent resident (dang dao), rather than a citizen. Do other naturalised Thai get this?

I just checked mine, and I am listed as below, but then I only retired a few days ago and haven't reported that to the Social Security Office yet, and in any case I will be covered for a further 6 months, before switching over to the 30 Baht scheme. It is strange though that you are still listed as an alien. You may need to update your information, but not sure how you would go about that.

 

สิทธิประกันสุขภาพทั้งหมดของท่าน :สิทธิประกันสังคม

สิทธิที่เข้ารับบริการ :สิทธิเบิกกองทุนประกันสังคม (ผู้ประกันตน)

 

[sidneybear]

30 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I just checked mine, and I am listed as below, but then I only retired a few days ago and haven't reported that to the Social Security Office yet, and in any case I will be covered for a further 6 months, before switching over to the 30 Baht scheme. It is strange though that you are still listed as an alien. You may need to update your information, but not sure how you would go about that.

 

สิทธิประกันสุขภาพทั้งหมดของท่าน :สิทธิประกันสังคม

สิทธิที่เข้ารับบริการ :สิทธิเบิกกองทุนประกันสังคม (ผู้ประกันตน)

 

Interesting... I got my citizenship in 2007, so you'd think they'd have updated it by now. I wonder how on earth I'd get it fixed?

 

Any other naturalised here also having the same problem?

[Marcati]

On 7/1/2024 at 1:10 AM, lomtalay said:

Congratulations!

 

Can I please ask when was the last time in the process that you needed to show your work permit? I'm hoping to retire in a couple of years... Thanks!

You need to maintain it until you get the Citizenship document from SB and register for your ID card. They were very specific on that

Edited July 3 by Marcati

[Marcati]

On 6/30/2024 at 11:49 PM, onthemoon said:

That is extremely fast. So you applied only in 2022?

No. I applied in 2019

[Marcati]

On 7/1/2024 at 1:35 AM, DrJoy said:

What was the basis of your application, marriage or PR?

Marriage

 

On 7/2/2024 at 6:43 PM, lomtalay said:

Yes, good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

The more information we get from emerging successful candidates from now on, the more we might learn. 

When I went to the District Office in Chatuchak for my ID card registration they wanted all the details of my employment.

[onthemoon]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:43 AM, Marcati said:

No. I applied in 2019

Me too, but I applied on grounds of business. So, the marriage track seems to be faster.

[DrJoy]

10 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Me too, but I applied on grounds of business. So, the marriage track seems to be faster.

Yes. My friend in MOI told me that married to Thai applicants move quicker in the que whereas PR basis ones move slower.

 

I have no idea this is true or not, so please don't quote me on this.

[Marcati]

14 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Yes. My friend in MOI told me that married to Thai applicants move quicker in the que whereas PR basis ones move slower.

 

I have no idea this is true or not, so please don't quote me on this.

I know for a fact foreigners married to Thais with kids definitely moves faster. Couple of people I know applied close to the time I did and they got their Citizenship long before me

[DrJoy]

45 minutes ago, Marcati said:

I know for a fact foreigners married to Thais with kids definitely moves faster. Couple of people I know applied close to the time I did and they got their Citizenship long before me

Great to know that he was indeed telling the truth/fact

 

He mentioned that currently 2021 married applicants files were being finalized.

[onthemoon]

I was with a bunch of Germans last night before the football match, and a discussion about Thai citizenship came up. These rumours are floating around, and I wonder whether anyone can confirm or deny:

 

1.) According to a new regulation about acquiring Thai citizenship, 5 years PR is not required anymore if applying on basis of business. Only a work permit showing that you have worked here for 5 years is required. 

 

2.) For Germans only: With the new citizenship law in Germany that started last week, Germans don't need to apply to keep the German nationality before getting the Thai nationality. Dual citizenship is now automatically and officially allowed.

 

I have my doubts on both of these and am looking forward to comments. Thanks.

[saakura]

On 7/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, DrJoy said:

Great to know that he was indeed telling the truth/fact

 

He mentioned that currently 2021 married applicants files were being finalized.

I was eligible to apply for Thai citizenship on both counts (>5yrs on PR & >15yrs married to a Thai citizen) but applied under the latter in 2019 and my documents were sent to MOI in 2020 after the SB & NIA interviews. Now 4yrs waiting for the interview call with the big MOI committee.

[yankee99]

36 minutes ago, saakura said:

I was eligible to apply for Thai citizenship on both counts (>5yrs on PR & >15yrs married to a Thai citizen) but applied under the latter in 2019 and my documents were sent to MOI in 2020 after the SB & NIA interviews. Now 4yrs waiting for the interview call with the big MOI committee.

Its really slowed down i applied in 2018 and had my id around 2 years already 

[onthemoon]

On 7/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, DrJoy said:

Great to know that he was indeed telling the truth/fact

 

He mentioned that currently 2021 married applicants files were being finalized.

Should I get married then? the applications based on business seem to be totally frozen now.

[ecline]

On 7/1/2024 at 12:33 PM, DrJoy said:

They don't check WP at MOI interview, but I strongly suggest maintaining it as long as you can.

 

@Marcati was asked for WP at the oath ceremony, so you never know.

My company is only extending my contract another two years starting now. My docs went to the MOI around Sept 2022. Not looking good....

[DrJoy]

4 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Should I get married then? the applications based on business seem to be totally frozen now.

If you get married now, it wont have any effect, as you applied on PR basis.

 

Even if you marry now, the marriage certificate needs to be 3 yrs old, it would entail more waiting.

 

Just stay as it is and hope you may get invited to the next available interview.

[DrJoy]

3 hours ago, ecline said:

My company is only extending my contract another two years starting now. My docs went to the MOI around Sept 2022. Not looking good....

Sep 2022 you say? My friends application was sent the same time.

 

Did they share the candidate list with you?

 

I have the list with me since he is a close friend and I helped him in this journey,

If my friend is invited for interview, I will let you know

Edited July 10 by DrJoy

[onthemoon]

17 hours ago, DrJoy said:

If you get married now, it wont have any effect, as you applied on PR basis.

 

Even if you marry now, the marriage certificate needs to be 3 yrs old, it would entail more waiting.

 

Just stay as it is and hope you may get invited to the next available interview.

Thanks; it was a joke. I won't get married just for the citizenship.

[ecline]

21 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Sep 2022 you say? My friends application was sent the same time.

 

Did they share the candidate list with you?

 

I have the list with me since he is a close friend and I helped him in this journey,

If my friend is invited for interview, I will let you know

Thanks for that. Please do let me know if he gets a call. So far nobody has shared anything with me, given any updates, etc. The only reason I know my docs made it to the MOI is I called them myself and asked sometime last year. The person I talked to sounded very annoyed that I had called, told me I wouldn't get my interview in 2023 and probably not in 2024 either. He then told me to never call him again. Maybe he was having a bad day :-(

[Arkady]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:42 PM, lomtalay said:

Yes, I realise this. 

 

My point is that before Marcati mentioned that he needed to produce his WP at the oath ceremony, the majority of people had confirmed (as you yourself mentioned) that they didn't need to show their WP at the DOPA interview or after.

 

If showing a WP at the oath ceremony is now the standard official requirement, this significantly alters the amount of time that I need to maintain my WP, regardless of when my files were submitted to the MOI. 

 

Before Marcati's post about the oath ceremony, I made a post here asking other people when they last had to show their WP and at least one guy replied that it was early on and he was nervous when he had his MOI interview as he no longer had a WP (he got away with it, fortunately).

 

Therefore, I'm very keen to find out when other successful candidates were required to show their WPs in order to get a better understanding of whether Marcati's situation was an exception or the new rule. If any posters gain citizenship this year or next, I'd be really interested to know as it drastically changes the timeline.

 

I don't think that showing a WP is an official requirement at the oath taking ceremony.  SB has to verify that it is the same person who originally applied, which is why they finger print you again, but they don't have to re-check qualifications.  Of course they will ask for all your documents and make copies of them.  But, if you tell them, you haven't got your WP with you because it is being renewed or something, unless things have changed, they will just say Mai Pen Rai and won't ask you to come back another day with the WP.  I seriously doubt that things have changed.  By that stage the minister and HMK have already signed and no one wants to go back tell them that they allowed them to sign for someone who wasn't actually qualified because they failed to double check they still had a WP before sending their documents for signature.

[onthemoon]

On 7/6/2024 at 9:51 AM, onthemoon said:

I was with a bunch of Germans last night before the football match, and a discussion about Thai citizenship came up. These rumours are floating around, and I wonder whether anyone can confirm or deny:

 

1.) According to a new regulation about acquiring Thai citizenship, 5 years PR is not required anymore if applying on basis of business. Only a work permit showing that you have worked here for 5 years is required. 

 

2.) For Germans only: With the new citizenship law in Germany that started last week, Germans don't need to apply to keep the German nationality before getting the Thai nationality. Dual citizenship is now automatically and officially allowed.

 

I have my doubts on both of these and am looking forward to comments. Thanks.

 

No replies, so I guess it is not true that 5 years of PR are not required anymore. In order words, the requirement for 5 years of PR is still in place for applicants using the business route.

 

As for the German question, I will check with the Bundesverwaltungsamt directly and report back here.

[onthemoon]

2 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

As for the German question, I will check with the Bundesverwaltungsamt directly and report back here.

That was fast: https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Beibehaltung/Beibehaltung_node.html

Germans can now have multiple nationalities without having to apply for approval anymore. Good news!

[Max_Headroom]

On 7/2/2024 at 7:34 PM, DrJoy said:

Its written in the Nationality act that "the candidate must have an occupation"

So it depends on how the officer of the day interprets it.

 

My friend who naturalized in 2020 was asked for WP at his District Office (Bangrak) before they could issue his ID card.

 

So nothing is set in stone.

 

If you, by any chance loose your WP/retire, I would suggest not to mention of it, when asked for.

 

Sorry, you had answered this prior I believe. I'm looking for clarification.

 

Applicant must be currently employed? You seem to think yes, but there might be wiggle room.

 

I've retired. Ten years employment. Eight years 40k + salary

 

Thanks 🙏

[yankee99]

3 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

Sorry, you had answered this prior I believe. I'm looking for clarification.

 

Applicant must be currently employed? You seem to think yes, but there might be wiggle room.

 

I've retired. Ten years employment. Eight years 40k + salary

 

Thanks 🙏

Definitely 3 years of work permit needed when applying. In my case only needed to show it again at the NIA interview. ymmv 

Edited July 13 by yankee99
text

[Arkady]

On 7/8/2024 at 9:00 PM, saakura said:

I was eligible to apply for Thai citizenship on both counts (>5yrs on PR & >15yrs married to a Thai citizen) but applied under the latter in 2019 and my documents were sent to MOI in 2020 after the SB & NIA interviews. Now 4yrs waiting for the interview call with the big MOI committee.

 

For information candidates don't meet the big MOI committee.  They are interviewed by the little MOI committee.  The big committee meets traditionally within a few months to review applications approved by the little committee to confirm they can be forwarded to the minister for signature.  It seems to be mainly rubber stamp that is required by the Nationality Act.  I assume they may review more than one little committee batch at a sitting. The agencies that sit on the two committees are exactly the same, i.e. 8 out of 15 are MOI departments, but the departments tend delegate less senior staff to the little committee.  Of course the head of the nationality section is most likely always there.

[Arkady]

On 7/13/2024 at 9:54 AM, Max_Headroom said:

 

Sorry, you had answered this prior I believe. I'm looking for clarification.

 

Applicant must be currently employed? You seem to think yes, but there might be wiggle room.

 

I've retired. Ten years employment. Eight years 40k + salary

 

Thanks 🙏

 Sadly no wriggle room.  Being currently employed is a requirement set in concrete in the Nationality Act.

[Arkady]

On 7/6/2024 at 9:51 AM, onthemoon said:

I was with a bunch of Germans last night before the football match, and a discussion about Thai citizenship came up. These rumours are floating around, and I wonder whether anyone can confirm or deny:

 

1.) According to a new regulation about acquiring Thai citizenship, 5 years PR is not required anymore if applying on basis of business. Only a work permit showing that you have worked here for 5 years is required. 

 

2.) For Germans only: With the new citizenship law in Germany that started last week, Germans don't need to apply to keep the German nationality before getting the Thai nationality. Dual citizenship is now automatically and officially allowed.

 

I have my doubts on both of these and am looking forward to comments. Thanks.

 

There has definitely been no new regulation issued regarding citizenship since the current regulations were issued in 1967.  New regulations were drafted in 2022 but have never been issued and they didn't include the provision you mention. Superficially it looks theoretically possible to do because the Nationality Act specifies 5 years' "residence" but not PR.  However, the intent behind that wording when the current act was issued in 1965 was clearly PR.  This is because it would not have been possible to accumulate 5 years' residence, while working in the Kingdom, without PR at that time.  There were no NON-B visas or marriage extensions then.  There was only PR and visas of a maximum of 3 months.  You could do business on a 3 month visa, as there were no WPs, but you would have had to keep leaving the country and coming back to apply for another 3 month visa which would not have counted as continuous residence. No one would have tried because it was so easy to get PR in those days.  I doubt this would be changed within the life of the current Nationality Act and don't see why any bureaucrats or politicians would have an interest in making such a change.  When the act was amended in 2008 to allow men with Thai wives to skip PR, it was a big deal and was resisted by the MOI, which successfully diluted the original bill that would have allowed foreign males to get nationality without working in Thailand to have parity with foreign females married to Thais.  But in that case there were Thai women's rights advocating for Thai women to get equal rights for their foreign husbands and the bill was sponsored by a lady Democrat party MP.  Who would push for those without Thai spouses to get nationality without PR?  Getting PR first is a very normal requirement for citizenship in developed countries, including countries with large scale immigration.  Thai police would be very unhappy about this, as it would put their PR sections at Immigration virtually out of business, except for those from countries that prohibit dual citizenship.

 

I see you have already answered the question about Germans who are now liberated from the former racist law aimed at preventing Turkish guest workers and their families from obtaining German citizenship.  Very sad for Thais living in Germany who were forced to renounced their Thai nationality to obtain German nationality, as there seems to be no easy way to recover it.  Under Section 23 of the Nationality Act Thai women who got German nationality through marriage can apply to recover Thai nationality but they need to submit divorce papers.  Section 24 seems to say that other former Thais may also apply to recover Thai nationality but it must be done within two years of reaching the age of majority.  I am not sure about this section but I guess it refers to children of Chinese immigrants who got Thai nationality through birth in the Kingdom but lost it for some reason, perhaps because they went to study in China for more than 5 years.  Anyway I am guessing it is redundant today.

 

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

 Sadly no wriggle room.  Being currently employed is a requirement set in concrete in the Nationality Act.

 

It's always something ya know?? Ten years employment in Thailand. I sent so many students abroad they should give me a freaking medal.

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

There has definitely been no new regulation issued regarding citizenship since the current regulations were issued in 1967.  New regulations were drafted in 2022 but have never been issued and they didn't include the provision you mention. Superficially it looks theoretically possible to do because the Nationality Act specifies 5 years' "residence" but not PR.  However, the intent behind that wording when the current act was issued in 1965 was clearly PR.  This is because it would not have been possible to accumulate 5 years' residence, while working in the Kingdom, without PR at that time.  There were no NON-B visas or marriage extensions then.  There was only PR and visas of a maximum of 3 months.  You could do business on a 3 month visa, as there were no WPs, but you would have had to keep leaving the country and coming back to apply for another 3 month visa which would not have counted as continuous residence. No one would have tried because it was so easy to get PR in those days.  I doubt this would be changed within the life of the current Nationality Act and don't see why any bureaucrats or politicians would have an interest in making such a change.  When the act was amended in 2008 to allow men with Thai wives to skip PR, it was a big deal and was resisted by the MOI, which successfully diluted the original bill that would have allowed foreign males to get nationality without working in Thailand to have parity with foreign females married to Thais.  But in that case there were Thai women's rights advocating for Thai women to get equal rights for their foreign husbands and the bill was sponsored by a lady Democrat party MP.  Who would push for those without Thai spouses to get nationality without PR?  Getting PR first is a very normal requirement for citizenship in developed countries, including countries with large scale immigration.  Thai police would be very unhappy about this, as it would put their PR sections at Immigration virtually out of business, except for those from countries that prohibit dual citizenship.

 

I see you have already answered the question about Germans who are now liberated from the former racist law aimed at preventing Turkish guest workers and their families from obtaining German citizenship.  Very sad for Thais living in Germany who were forced to renounced their Thai nationality to obtain German nationality, as there seems to be no easy way to recover it.  Under Section 23 of the Nationality Act Thai women who got German nationality through marriage can apply to recover Thai nationality but they need to submit divorce papers.  Section 24 seems to say that other former Thais may also apply to recover Thai nationality but it must be done within two years of reaching the age of majority.  I am not sure about this section but I guess it refers to children of Chinese immigrants who got Thai nationality through birth in the Kingdom but lost it for some reason, perhaps because they went to study in China for more than 5 years.  Anyway I am guessing it is redundant today.

 

Thank you very much about the clarification that the Thai law hasn't changed! I thought I would have heard it.

 

No need to discuss Germany anymore, luckily.