Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[greenchair]

4 hours ago, yankee99 said:

Really seems nothing unreasonable and the last thing i would do is start a citizenship with a bribe.

 

I doubt cm has experience and from the op posts seems they were a bit confused.

 

Personally this is the reason i moved my book from chonburi to bkk

Bless you for seeing the good in people. 

I have read that post. 

The man is looking for a small kick. 

I gave both of my officers a small gift of appreciation. They told me it would not give me a leg up. But anyway my stuff got done quite quickly. 

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, VIBE said:

Well, from what I have seen is everyone here is scared to accept any gifts and are doing everything by the book.  Military gov and all that.  I think he just does not have a clue.  He told us this was his first case for a male applying....

I gave them some apples from nz. And a basket with coffee, cookies and stuff like that. 

They were very appreciative. 

When he asked do you drink, you should have answered yeah sure do you want to go for a beer. 

[onthemoon]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

3.2 Applicants with direct personal ties with Thailand, such as those married to a Thai citizen, those with children who are Thai citizens, or those who graduated from an institute of tertiary education in Thailand should have an income of not less than 40,000 baht a month supported by a letter of confirmation of monthly salary/income and must show evidence that they have paid tax for not less than 3 years; or they should they should have paid personal income tax of more than 50,000 baht per year for the 3 tax years prior to their application for naturalization

 

Wait a minute here, I graduated from a university in Thailand, so I would not have needed to apply for PR first? And I only need THB 40,000 salary per month?

 

If true, I wish I had known that 9 years ago when I applied for PR...

[Arkady]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The rules indirectly say you can apply for being the parent of a Thai. But the catch is that you need to be the legal parent of your child by way of marriage or legitimization. I don't recall any reports of anybody getting citizenship solely based upon being the parent of a Thai.

From: Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization

The other option is to apply for permanent residency first and then citizenship.

 

The guidelines do allow for a lower salary (B40,000 a month instead of B80,000) for those with a Thai child or graduates of a Thai university etc but they still need to be qualified according to the Nationality Act which specifies either 5 years of residence (interpreted as 5 years of PR) or a Thai wife.

[Arkady]

13 hours ago, roulax said:

Hi everyone,

 

Sorry that this question might have been asked so many times, but I'd like to know what's your opinion on the easiest solution for me : either to apply for PR or Thai citizenship.

 

I have been working here for 8 years , i have had only non-B visas up to know linked with my WP. I am employed by a local company.

My partner is thai (we are not married) and we have 2 kids. I speak thai almost fluently

 

We live in Rayong province so the local immigration or police would not be of so much help, would  probably need to go to Bangkok.

 

So is it faster for me to go and apply for Thai citizenship directly even though we are not married (will getting married help a lot?) 

 

Thanks for your advice and experience sharing.

 

Unless you don't want to register your marriage or can't on the grounds that one or other of you is already married to someone else, registering your marriage to your Thai partner will be your quickest route.  Since you already have children with her, you will be eligible to apply for citizenship only one year after registration of your marriage.  (It would be three years without children.)  It sounds like you already meet the requirements for three years continuous WP and visa and three years tax receipts.  Getting PR first is a much longer way round because you need five years' PR before you can apply.

 

If you and your partner are able and willing to go the marriage registration route, you should start making some donations to registered Thai charities and plan a trip to SB in Bangkok to make initial enquiries.  A year ahead of application is about right.  Take all your docs and your partner, her docs and your kids' docs with you and they will tell you which ones you need to correct (nearly every one has something wrong with at least one of their Thai docs, even if it is a wrong tone mark in the Thai spelling of their name) and which new ones you need.  You will need a tabien baan, if you haven't already got one.  I don't know, if Rayong is a viable province to apply from - probably not as nearly all provinces outside Bangkok except maybe Phuket, Chonburi and possibly Chiang Mai seem to be non-starters.  So there is a good possibility that you will have to get a tabien baan in Bangkok and apply to SB there.  They can advise you on this to a certain extent.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

I gave them some apples from nz. And a basket with coffee, cookies and stuff like that. 

They were very appreciative. 

When he asked do you drink, you should have answered yeah sure do you want to go for a beer. 

 

This makes sense. Since it is New Year, you have a great opportunity to take around a hamper of New Year goodies and wish them a Happy New Year.  I also agree with Greenchair that the cop probably wanted you to invite him to go to a pub or something.  Police can usually drink free at many venues, so, if this is correct, he would be less likely to care about getting free entertainment but might want to explain his requirements in a less formal atmosphere over a bottle of black.  If you want to pursue this angle, you could ask him out for a New Year drink when you take round the hamper.  From the way you describe his behaviour in general, it does rather sound as if he has been angling for something under the table.  Of course, he might just enjoy the opportunity for some camaraderie with a farang or perhaps feels that alcohol is sinful and wanted to mark your card as a foreign drunk unworthy of Thai citizenship, however unlikely this seems.

 

The right and proper thing to do is, of course, to either ignore all hints of bribes and tough it out in Chiang Mai for better or worse, or pull the plug on Chiang Mai cops and get a tabien baan in Bangkok, so you can apply to SB HQ which is much less likely to stuff up your application through ignorance and inexperience. 

[greenchair]

8 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

This makes sense. Since it is New Year, you have a great opportunity to take around a hamper of New Year goodies and wish them a Happy New Year.  I also agree with Greenchair that the cop probably wanted you to invite him to go to a pub or something.  Police can usually drink free at many venues, so, if this is correct, he would be less likely to care about getting free entertainment but might want to explain his requirements in a less formal atmosphere over a bottle of black.  If you want to pursue this angle, you could ask him out for a New Year drink when you take round the hamper.  From the way you describe his behaviour in general, it does rather sound as if he has been angling for something under the table.  Of course, he might just enjoy the opportunity for some camaraderie with a farang or perhaps feels that alcohol is sinful and wanted to mark your card as a foreign drunk unworthy of Thai citizenship, however unlikely this seems.

 

The right and proper thing to do is, of course, to either ignore all hints of bribes and tough it out in Chiang Mai for better or worse, or pull the plug on Chiang Mai cops and get a tabien baan in Bangkok, so you can apply to SB HQ which is much less likely to stuff up your application through ignorance and inexperience. 

Well said. 

My friends condo owner here in bkk Has refused to give a copy of tabien baan or to help get a yellow book. She doesn't want to persue it. She has a friend in bkk that will put her on the tabien baan, but she is worried about the address not matching her 90 day report and about using a fake address throughout the process. 

Thoughts please. 

[onthemoon]

12 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

The guidelines do allow for a lower salary (B40,000 a month instead of B80,000) for those with a Thai child or graduates of a Thai university etc but they still need to be qualified according to the Nationality Act which specifies either 5 years of residence (interpreted as 5 years of PR) or a Thai wife.

Thanks for the qualification, so it is only the salary that is affected.

[Neeranam]

On 29/12/2017 at 7:08 AM, greenchair said:

Well said. 

My friends condo owner here in bkk Has refused to give a copy of tabien baan or to help get a yellow book. She doesn't want to persue it. She has a friend in bkk that will put her on the tabien baan, but she is worried about the address not matching her 90 day report and about using a fake address throughout the process. 

Thoughts please. 

SB do visit the house, but mine is in a different province. SB would be ok I think, but the later interview might ask.

[greenchair]

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

SB do visit the house, but mine is in a different province. SB would be ok I think, but the later interview might ask.

So do you mean, they know you live in the province, but you have a tabien baan in bkk? 

So which house did they visit. 

[NewlyMintedThai]

I agree. They are evaluating you as to whether you are a productive member of society, or a moral reprobate. They don’t need to fish for booze from you.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[THAIJAMES]

On 12/28/2017 at 10:03 AM, greenchair said:

Has it not occurred to you that this chap is trying every which way for a sweetener. Are you blind man? 

That my impression too.  I have past dealings with this particular station and was asked for incentives for their cooperation on a work related project (which I never paid).  The big problem is how to handle this probable request for a sweetener.  what would you suggest?

 

I have a friend that obtained citizenship many years ago and he had to pay 1M to make it happen.  Not sure if this is still the case nowadays for some.  Although no one would be foolish to admit it publicly. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by THAIJAMES

[THAIJAMES]

On 12/28/2017 at 8:33 AM, VIBE said:

asking questions like why our company only has 3 shareholders and not seven? Does not know the regs it seams.  Telling me that If I don't have enough money I will not be approved.  Told him I had paid up capital into my company of 6M THB.  Oh, and asked to see a photo of the company registered address.  Wow, so find one on my phone to show, then he asked why is there more then one building?

Directors of companies that apply for citizenship are put under more scrutiny.  Unfortunately, there is not much information on Thai visa about the extra requirements or checks that are done.    So your reporting is valuable as I am in the same situation.

 

Just wondering how much the scrutiny will be into your company affairs.

[greenchair]

 

 

27 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

That my impression too.  I have past dealings with this particular station and was asked for incentives for their cooperation on a work related project (which I never paid).  The big problem is how to handle this probable request for a sweetener.  what would you suggest?

 

I have a friend that obtained citizenship many years ago and he had to pay 1M to make it happen.  Not sure if this is still the case nowadays for some.  Although no one would be foolish to admit it publicly. 

This guy seems like a bit of a nasty one. 

The op might be better to bypass him and go through bkk. To me it was very obvious he was looking for money. The op might just continue to be dumb about the whole thing and as he said there is a lot of fear in the government workers now. 

So he might just process it anyway. Albeit extremely slowly. I didn't pay a bribe and was never asked as I said. I do think the odd basket of goodies with a small envelope of appreciation is simply a nice gesture. I put in a couple of thousand baht for the officer and another envelope of a couple of thousand for her boss. They clearly informed me, they have absolutely no control over whether I am approved or not. And it is the same for the officer in the op. But he does have control over getting the papers sent in the first place. So I would suggest he get a basket and put lots of goodies for the office, ovaltine, coffee, cookies and a nice bottle of chivas regal. And an envelope. It is not a bribe at all, it is a gift of appreciation. Now that I have my citizenship, I will continue to pop down to SB and give them a basket once a year. It is a small price to pay when I get so much back. They don't get much salary you know. A bit of empathy goes a long way. 

[yankee99]

5 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

 

This guy seems like a bit of a nasty one. 

The op might be better to bypass him and go through bkk. To me it was very obvious he was looking for money. The op might just continue to be dumb about the whole thing and as he said there is a lot of fear in the government workers now. 

So he might just process it anyway. Albeit extremely slowly. I didn't pay a bribe and was never asked as I said. I do think the odd basket of goodies with a small envelope of appreciation is simply a nice gesture. I put in a couple of thousand baht for the officer and another envelope of a couple of thousand for her boss. They clearly informed me, they have absolutely no control over whether I am approved or not. And it is the same for the officer in the op. But he does have control over getting the papers sent in the first place. So I would suggest he get a basket and put lots of goodies for the office, ovaltine, coffee, cookies and a nice bottle of chivas regal. And an envelope. It is not a bribe at all, it is a gift of appreciation. Now that I have my citizenship, I will continue to pop down to SB and give them a basket once a year. It is a small price to pay when I get so much back. They don't get much salary you know. A bit of empathy goes a long way. 

Sorry to say envelopes of money and gifts are bribes and personally although this may work I think its bad advice

[greenchair]

12 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Sorry to say envelopes of money and gifts are bribes and personally although this may work I think its bad advice

I agree, in hindsight, it is bad advice. 

Worked for me though. 

I was a citizen a year later. 

It's new year. Everyone gives baskets. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by greenchair

[samran]

We weren’t asked for anything during my wife’s application, though once her name was printed in the royal gazette i took a thank you basket of Aussie and kiwi sweets to SB to show our appreciation. 

 

When she went to get her registered on the tabieen baan to get a ID card, the lady asked for a basket. I called one of the NACC commissioners who called the lady who asked for a basket.  The tabieen baan was processed with no more questions and the ID card was issued the next week.  

Edited December 31, 2017 by samran

[greenchair]

28 minutes ago, samran said:

We weren’t asked for anything during my wife’s application, though once her name was printed in the royal gazette i took a thank you basket of Aussie and kiwi sweets to SB to show our appreciation. 

 

When she went to get her registered on the tabieen baan to get a ID card, the lady asked for a basket. I called one of the NACC commissioners who called the lady who asked for a basket.  The tabieen baan was processed with no more questions and the ID card was issued the next week.  

You could have given her a basket. 

Such a small thing. 

[Rhys]

 

well be the best Thai  you can be then...

[Big Guns]

In answer to the questions about having your name on a yellow book in a different address, I live in Rayong and I was on a yellow book in BKK but it was never questioned by SB, NIA or MOI. On a positive note I used my Thai passport for the first time recently and the lack of queues both departing a returning was priceless. Clearing immigration takes about 2 minutes. I didn't understand the auto gate system and they explained how it works in English

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, samran said:

We weren’t asked for anything during my wife’s application, though once her name was printed in the royal gazette i took a thank you basket of Aussie and kiwi sweets to SB to show our appreciation. 

 

When she went to get her registered on the tabieen baan to get a ID card, the lady asked for a basket. I called one of the NACC commissioners who called the lady who asked for a basket.  The tabieen baan was processed with no more questions and the ID card was issued the next week.  

 

I remember being told a funny story some years ago by someone who initially tried to apply from upcountry before giving up and getting on to a Bangkok tabien baan.  Some connection of his wife's family contacted someone close to the provincial governor on his behalf and a message eventually came back from the governor's secretary that a bribe of a bit less than a million baht, including express fee, would be required to process the application and get it approved expeditiously by the minister, who was a notorious politician. The applicant had no interest in paying bribes and didn't have that kind of money available anyway.  In fact he was so incensed that he called the NACC, using the hotline to report corruption that was advertised on TV at the time. He spoke good Thai and the officer listened politely to his complaint, asking a few intelligent questions.  At the end of the conversation the officer said, "I am so sorry but the NACC cannot accept your complaint because you are not yet a Thai citizen".      

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, Big Guns said:

In answer to the questions about having your name on a yellow book in a different address, I live in Rayong and I was on a yellow book in BKK but it was never questioned by SB, NIA or MOI. On a positive note I used my Thai passport for the first time recently and the lack of queues both departing a returning was priceless. Clearing immigration takes about 2 minutes. I didn't understand the auto gate system and they explained how it works in English

Yes, but when you wrote your address on various documents, which one did you use. And which one did they visit you at? 

By the way they never visited me. 

That sounds such a treat. I am really looking forward to using my thai passport. 

Having citizenship has changed my whole life here. I love it. It's just great to feel home. 

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Directors of companies that apply for citizenship are put under more scrutiny.  Unfortunately, there is not much information on Thai visa about the extra requirements or checks that are done.    So your reporting is valuable as I am in the same situation.

 

Just wondering how much the scrutiny will be into your company affairs.

 

There are no special requirements for those who are directors of their employer companies but an applicant who is also a shareholder in his employer company must comply with guideline no. 11.

 

11. Evidence of one year’s corporate income tax payment (Phor Ngor Dor 50), if the applicant is a shareholder.

I may be paranoid but I sold the small shareholding I had in my company, an SET listed company, at the time to avoid having to submit this additional information.

Although there is no specific guideline about owners and directors of their own companies, other than the above, it is possible there would indeed be some additional scrutiny to ensure it is a real business.  I am aware that Immigration is sceptical about PR applicants from their own small companies but then they often come across foreigners setting up man of straw companies to obtain NON-B visas.  I have never heard of SB doing this with citizenship applicants.  I was working for my own small company as a director most of my 3-year qualification period but transferred to a Plc a few months before I applied.  I was never asked any questions about my time at the small company.   

. 

[THAIJAMES]

13 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

There are no special requirements for those who are directors of their employer companies but an applicant who is also a shareholder in his employer company must comply with guideline no. 11.

 

11. Evidence of one year’s corporate income tax payment (Phor Ngor Dor 50), if the applicant is a shareholder.

 

I may be paranoid but I sold the small shareholding I had in my company, an SET listed company, at the time to avoid having to submit this additional information.

 

Although there is no specific guideline about owners and directors of their own companies, other than the above, it is possible there would indeed be some additional scrutiny to ensure it is a real business.  I am aware that Immigration is sceptical about PR applicants from their own small companies but then they often come across foreigners setting up man of straw companies to obtain NON-B visas.  I have never heard of SB doing this with citizenship applicants.  I was working for my own small company as a director most of my 3-year qualification period but transferred to a Plc a few months before I applied.  I was never asked any questions about my time at the small company.   

. 

Thanks Arkady for clarifying that.

[THAIJAMES]

On 12/31/2017 at 6:39 AM, greenchair said:

I agree, in hindsight, it is bad advice. 

Worked for me though. 

I was a citizen a year later. 

It's new year. Everyone gives baskets. 

Although I despise corruption and under the table antics.  This is Thailand.  Too many times during my 30 years here I have been put through obstacles and long wait times (8 years for my PR to be approved) because I refused to pay any "incentives".  
I am not so sure this time I would put my citizenship application under risk because of my moral beliefs.  It's not like you are giving them a basket for them to do something illegal.  You just want them to do their job.  Many in Thai government have paid for their position.  Unless they get paid back, you are either at the back of the list or no action is taken.

So it might make the difference between waiting 1 year, 8 years or no cooperation and even sabotage.

 

So do you give a basket to the officer and he will expect that or more from everyone else in the future or do you hold your moral ground, not knowing if your application will be sabotaged.
 

[greenchair]

41 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Although I despise corruption and under the table antics.  This is Thailand.  Too many times during my 30 years here I have been put through obstacles and long wait times (8 years for my PR to be approved) because I refused to pay any "incentives".  
I am not so sure this time I would put my citizenship application under risk because of my moral beliefs.  It's not like you are giving them a basket for them to do something illegal.  You just want them to do their job.  Many in Thai government have paid for their position.  Unless they get paid back, you are either at the back of the list or no action is taken.

So it might make the difference between waiting 1 year, 8 years or no cooperation and even sabotage.

 

So do you give a basket to the officer and he will expect that or more from everyone else in the future or do you hold your moral ground, not knowing if your application will be sabotaged.
 

That's right. 

You certainly get more flies with honey. 

However, I have found my approach to be helpful around the world . A small gift to the boss from overseas. 

Apples for the teacher around test time. 

Even in Thailand cookies for teacher gets an A+ , no cookies gets an A- .

It is simple human nature. It causes them to remember you over thousands of other applications. Their natural endorphins kick in every time they see you because they have a memory of the feeling when they got the gift. 

This is different from giving an outright bribe, which causes them to feel guilt and obligatory emotions, which may actually make them dislike you. It's new years all you applicants. It is a perfectly normal and loving gesture to give a nice office basket .with a lovely picture of your family that you want to be with. Don't be stingy. 

Though alcohol should be considered on a case by case basis. Expensive chocolate, nuts, the Thai love brands. I spent about 4000 on my basket. 

[Neeranam]

On 30/12/2017 at 7:56 PM, greenchair said:

So do you mean, they know you live in the province, but you have a tabien baan in bkk? 

So which house did they visit. 

They are visiting the one in the province.

[greenchair]

50 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

They are visiting the one in the province.

Yes, but when you fill in all the forms, which address do you put? 

The tabien baan or the province where you live? 

[GarryP]

If you are going to go with gift giving, the gifts should not have a value of more than Baht 3,000 so as to avoid claims off corruption.  It is legal to give gifts with a value below said amount, as long as it is not as an inducement to do or not to do something as the case may be.

[onthemoon]

17 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

There are no special requirements for those who are directors of their employer companies but an applicant who is also a shareholder in his employer company must comply with guideline no. 11.

 

11. Evidence of one year’s corporate income tax payment (Phor Ngor Dor 50), if the applicant is a shareholder.

 

I may be paranoid but I sold the small shareholding I had in my company, an SET listed company, at the time to avoid having to submit this additional information.

 

Although there is no specific guideline about owners and directors of their own companies, other than the above, it is possible there would indeed be some additional scrutiny to ensure it is a real business.  I am aware that Immigration is sceptical about PR applicants from their own small companies but then they often come across foreigners setting up man of straw companies to obtain NON-B visas.  I have never heard of SB doing this with citizenship applicants.  I was working for my own small company as a director most of my 3-year qualification period but transferred to a Plc a few months before I applied.  I was never asked any questions about my time at the small company.   

. 

 I have intention of selling my shares in order to simplify the way to citizenship. We have to produce all the tax documents etc anyway for the work permit now, it is just a matter of making another copy.