Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[david143]

so if 10 month idea , which means September of October 2020 for me

 

[Neeranam]

On 2/28/2020 at 11:11 AM, Barty said:

 

For me it was 229 days from the MOI interview to the oath taking.

 

[david143]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

almost 8 months Good

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, david143 said:

almost 8 months Good

 

As my MoI interview was Sep. 19, I am expecting June/July. Add on a month or 2 due to covid. 

[david143]

37 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

As my MoI interview was Sep. 19, I am expecting June/July. Add on a month or 2 due to covid. 

thanks for sharing brother

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

MOI to oath taking has been 9 months for me. My MOI interview was end July 2019. I'm waiting for the RG step now.

[cmsally]

Can anyone comment on "the need to take a Thai name" when getting Thai ID. I was told that to get a Thai ID and house reg I need to take a Thai name (not surname). Seems absolutely ridiculous and could be a can of worms when it comes to paperwork and travel. Anyone have details?

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

Can anyone comment on "the need to take a Thai name" when getting Thai ID. I was told that to get a Thai ID and house reg I need to take a Thai name (not surname). Seems absolutely ridiculous and could be a can of worms when it comes to paperwork and travel. Anyone have details?

It is not true. You do have to reserve a name and family name as part of the process, but you are not required to actually use them. The name on my Thai ID card and House Registration is my original English name but using Thai spelling. 

 

The whole idea that you still have to reserve a Thai forename and family is silly if you have no intention of actually adopting them. 

[onthemoon]

5 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Can anyone comment on "the need to take a Thai name" when getting Thai ID. I was told that to get a Thai ID and house reg I need to take a Thai name (not surname). Seems absolutely ridiculous and could be a can of worms when it comes to paperwork and travel. Anyone have details?

Choosing a Thai name is part of the application process. You do it at the Amphur/Khet, and the certificate is one of the documents you need to submit before the case will be forwarded to the MoI. You need to choose a first name and a family name. They will explain this to you when you hand in the basic documents as per the list SB gives you.

 

There is no need to ever use the Thai name, though. This regulation is a relic from times past and now just a formality. So, all my documents will show my original name, also when I finally become a Thai citizen.

[cmsally]

Through the nationality application process, it was never required. I now have Thai nationality )posted in Royal Gazette, just need to go to "kwaeng" of Tesabahn to do house reg. (first step) and they are the ones saying I need it. Next step is to main Tesabahn for ID card. This will be based on info in house reg. So if I give in to their new name demand at the kwaeng it will be going on ID card because they follow what is on house reg. Nightmare!

 

Actually thinking about it, my actual name has been posted in Royal Gazette. Surely that is the person/ "name" they must follow in house reg/ID otherwise Royal Gazette and Thai ID name would not match ! ie they would have given citizenship to "different person" !!!!

PS My "kwaeng " are ...... useless !

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, cmsally said:

Through the nationality application process, it was never required. I now have Thai nationality )posted in Royal Gazette, just need to go to "kwaeng" of Tesabahn to do house reg. (first step) and they are the ones saying I need it. Next step is to main Tesabahn for ID card. This will be based on info in house reg. So if I give in to their new name demand at the kwaeng it will be going on ID card because they follow what is on house reg. Nightmare!

 

Actually thinking about it, my actual name has been posted in Royal Gazette. Surely that is the person/ "name" they must follow in house reg/ID otherwise Royal Gazette and Thai ID name would not match ! ie they would have given citizenship to "different person" !!!!

PS My "kwaeng " are ...... useless !

Do not give in to the district office. Reserving a name does not mean you have to use it. Changing your name to the one you reserved could create all kinds of problems if you wish to maintain your home country passport. Some countries, which allow dual citizenship, do not allow you to have two different names (identities) and you would have to file to change your name  in you home country to match your new Thai name. You would then need to change your name against all your bank accounts, credit cards, etc. and a whole bunch of other stuff.  

 

Your Nationality Certificate (not sure what it is called without checking and mine is locked away), the one you get from SB with your photo on, also shows your name. 

 

Which district are you in? If near to me I would be more than happy to go with you and show them my identity documents to prove you may maintain your original name. 

 

FYI, my son, who was born many years before I got Thai citizenship, has an English forename and my family name and he is Thai. 

[Neeranam]

18 hours ago, GarryP said:

Some countries, which allow dual citizenship, do not allow you to have two different names (identities) and you would have to file to change your name  in you home country to match your new Thai name. You would then need to change your name against all your bank accounts, credit cards, etc. and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Sorry to change the topic but I could have two identities until my UK passport needed renewing, 9 years.

 

If keeping your original name, don't you need to change details at banks anyway?

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, cmsally said:

Actually thinking about it, my actual name has been posted in Royal Gazette. Surely that is the person/ "name" they must follow in house reg/ID otherwise Royal Gazette and Thai ID name would not match ! ie they would have given citizenship to "different person" !!!!

Absolutely! As well as your certificate of naturalization. It's your final test for Thai patience, good luck! 

[khongaeng]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Sorry to change the topic but I could have two identities until my UK passport needed renewing, 9 years.

 

If keeping your original name, don't you need to change details at banks anyway?

I know the idea of being a Jason Bourne with lots of different identities is an interesting thought, but it is quite impractical when traveling in the real world. 

 

If you stay in Thailand and do not travel, then no problem.  If you fly out of Thailand and back into Thailand on the same passport (your Thai passport), then you would also have no problems.  However, if you travel to a country where you will need to use your other passport such as the UK, you would encounter a situation like this:

1. Ticket in UK name: Check-in counter in Thailand will want to see your UK passport, if they check to find the Thai visa, the will not find it, at which point you will hand them your Thai passport, but the names won't match.  I competent person will just say "this is obviously the same person but with a different name in each country" and let you go through.  An incompetent person will probably run it up the org chart, at a minimum wasting your time, and possibly causing issues with your dual citizenship especially in Thailand since you are technically supposed to give up your old citizenship.  If you pass check-in, then Thai immigration might have issues since your Passport number will not match any ticket in the system.  This may cause you issues at the automatic gates, and definitely will cause you problems if you have to go to an immigration desk because the automated systems are down.  Supposing you are able to make it through immigration, you will then have the problem again if you use a passport that you did not check in with at the gate as they scan your passport.  Others I travel with regularly have two passports, and this has caused them a 10 minute delay before they can explain to the counter agents what the issue is and show them the two passports.  

2. Ticket in Thai name: Still issue at check-in because they will definitely want to see your UK visa, at which point you will hand them your UK passport with a different name.  This will cause the same potential issues as the previous scenario. One benefit is you will not have any issues with immigration in Thailand, but in the UK again your name will not match the ticket if they check both Ticket and passport.

 

I have traveled in out of the country with dual Thai nationals many times, and they never have any issues if the names in their passports match and they use the Thai passport with Thai immigration and their other passport whenever they arrive in a different country.  

 

I personally do not think the hassle (and possible risk) is worth maintaining two identities.

 

On a side note, when traveling with dual nationals to different countries that use facial recognition (like US, China) or fingerprinting (many others including Thailand) I have seen the question be asked by immigration officials before if the person has a second nationality because the biometrics match a different person.  I have never seen someone stopped or forbidden entry for this after providing a simple explanation that they are a dual national, but I do think it is interesting as more and more countries are keeping biometric data when flying through.  Probably best to keep track of which countries you travel to with which passports.

[GarryP]

58 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Sorry to change the topic but I could have two identities until my UK passport needed renewing, 9 years.

 

If keeping your original name, don't you need to change details at banks anyway?

In my case, I did not have any overseas accounts or property so the only problem I would have had is differing names in passports, had I chosen to go that route. However, I had to renew my passport last year anyway so had I changed to a Thai name, I would have had to update that anyway. 

 

As to bank accounts, I filled out a form and they just updated my nationality and included my ID no. against all my existing accounts. It was very straightforward.  

[cmsally]

Well went to the local office today and no mention of name change or anything and of course they copied the name off the one posted in the Royal Gazette. So it turns out the woman on the phone and on the desk before, knew absolutely nothing!

House reg almost finished, just have to take "hua nar chum chon" and one other along next Tuesday as witnesses and all done!! Then go get ID card! Almost there ! Then I guess, passport; but of course I can't go anywhere !!! Oh the joy!

[Neeranam]

32 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

I know the idea of being a Jason Bourne with lots of different identities is an interesting thought, but it is quite impractical when traveling in the real world. 

 

If you stay in Thailand and do not travel, then no problem.  If you fly out of Thailand and back into Thailand on the same passport (your Thai passport), then you would also have no problems.  However, if you travel to a country where you will need to use your other passport such as the UK, you would encounter a situation like this:

1. Ticket in UK name: Check-in counter in Thailand will want to see your UK passport, if they check to find the Thai visa, the will not find it, at which point you will hand them your Thai passport, but the names won't match.  I competent person will just say "this is obviously the same person but with a different name in each country" and let you go through.  An incompetent person will probably run it up the org chart, at a minimum wasting your time, and possibly causing issues with your dual citizenship especially in Thailand since you are technically supposed to give up your old citizenship.  If you pass check-in, then Thai immigration might have issues since your Passport number will not match any ticket in the system.  This may cause you issues at the automatic gates, and definitely will cause you problems if you have to go to an immigration desk because the automated systems are down.  Supposing you are able to make it through immigration, you will then have the problem again if you use a passport that you did not check in with at the gate as they scan your passport.  Others I travel with regularly have two passports, and this has caused them a 10 minute delay before they can explain to the counter agents what the issue is and show them the two passports.  

2. Ticket in Thai name: Still issue at check-in because they will definitely want to see your UK visa, at which point you will hand them your UK passport with a different name.  This will cause the same potential issues as the previous scenario. One benefit is you will not have any issues with immigration in Thailand, but in the UK again your name will not match the ticket if they check both Ticket and passport.

 

I have traveled in out of the country with dual Thai nationals many times, and they never have any issues if the names in their passports match and they use the Thai passport with Thai immigration and their other passport whenever they arrive in a different country.  

 

I personally do not think the hassle (and possible risk) is worth maintaining two identities.

 

On a side note, when traveling with dual nationals to different countries that use facial recognition (like US, China) or fingerprinting (many others including Thailand) I have seen the question be asked by immigration officials before if the person has a second nationality because the biometrics match a different person.  I have never seen someone stopped or forbidden entry for this after providing a simple explanation that they are a dual national, but I do think it is interesting as more and more countries are keeping biometric data when flying through.  Probably best to keep track of which countries you travel to with which passports.

Thanks, good points, plus it will be illegal to use my UK passport in Thailand. You are right, I'll just keep my original name, but I imagine as a Thai citizen, could change it at any time in the future quite easily. 

 

[echrist]

3 hours ago, khongaeng said:

I know the idea of being a Jason Bourne with lots of different identities is an interesting thought, but it is quite impractical when traveling in the real world. 

 

If you stay in Thailand and do not travel, then no problem.  If you fly out of Thailand and back into Thailand on the same passport (your Thai passport), then you would also have no problems.  However, if you travel to a country where you will need to use your other passport such as the UK, you would encounter a situation like this:

1. Ticket in UK name: Check-in counter in Thailand will want to see your UK passport, if they check to find the Thai visa, the will not find it, at which point you will hand them your Thai passport, but the names won't match.  I competent person will just say "this is obviously the same person but with a different name in each country" and let you go through.  An incompetent person will probably run it up the org chart, at a minimum wasting your time, and possibly causing issues with your dual citizenship especially in Thailand since you are technically supposed to give up your old citizenship.  If you pass check-in, then Thai immigration might have issues since your Passport number will not match any ticket in the system.  This may cause you issues at the automatic gates, and definitely will cause you problems if you have to go to an immigration desk because the automated systems are down.  Supposing you are able to make it through immigration, you will then have the problem again if you use a passport that you did not check in with at the gate as they scan your passport.  Others I travel with regularly have two passports, and this has caused them a 10 minute delay before they can explain to the counter agents what the issue is and show them the two passports.  

2. Ticket in Thai name: Still issue at check-in because they will definitely want to see your UK visa, at which point you will hand them your UK passport with a different name.  This will cause the same potential issues as the previous scenario. One benefit is you will not have any issues with immigration in Thailand, but in the UK again your name will not match the ticket if they check both Ticket and passport.

 

I have traveled in out of the country with dual Thai nationals many times, and they never have any issues if the names in their passports match and they use the Thai passport with Thai immigration and their other passport whenever they arrive in a different country.  

 

I personally do not think the hassle (and possible risk) is worth maintaining two identities.

 

On a side note, when traveling with dual nationals to different countries that use facial recognition (like US, China) or fingerprinting (many others including Thailand) I have seen the question be asked by immigration officials before if the person has a second nationality because the biometrics match a different person.  I have never seen someone stopped or forbidden entry for this after providing a simple explanation that they are a dual national, but I do think it is interesting as more and more countries are keeping biometric data when flying through.  Probably best to keep track of which countries you travel to with which passports.

One could fly to a neighbouring country on the Thai passport, then fly out on the other passport from that country. Quite inconvenient, but an option if one were so inclined to maintain to separate identities. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, echrist said:

One could fly to a neighbouring country on the Thai passport, then fly out on the other passport from that country. Quite inconvenient, but an option if one were so inclined to maintain to separate identities. 

I'm not sure this is a valid move as much as the basic functionality of computerized immigration is to trace when a foreigner leaving the country did actually enter it... IMO having no data would trigger some questioning. I won't try this myself for sure.

[onthemoon]

14 hours ago, echrist said:

One could fly to a neighbouring country on the Thai passport, then fly out on the other passport from that country. Quite inconvenient, but an option if one were so inclined to maintain to separate identities. 

I don't think you can fly out on the other passport.  I'd say that would qualify as using your foreign passport in Thailand, which automatically cancels you Thai citizenship. I wouldn't risk that.

[onthemoon]

18 hours ago, khongaeng said:

I know the idea of being a Jason Bourne with lots of different identities is an interesting thought, but it is quite impractical when traveling in the real world. 

 

If you stay in Thailand and do not travel, then no problem.  If you fly out of Thailand and back into Thailand on the same passport (your Thai passport), then you would also have no problems.  However, if you travel to a country where you will need to use your other passport such as the UK, you would encounter a situation like this:

1. Ticket in UK name: Check-in counter in Thailand will want to see your UK passport, if they check to find the Thai visa, the will not find it, at which point you will hand them your Thai passport, but the names won't match.  I competent person will just say "this is obviously the same person but with a different name in each country" and let you go through.  An incompetent person will probably run it up the org chart, at a minimum wasting your time, and possibly causing issues with your dual citizenship especially in Thailand since you are technically supposed to give up your old citizenship.  If you pass check-in, then Thai immigration might have issues since your Passport number will not match any ticket in the system.  This may cause you issues at the automatic gates, and definitely will cause you problems if you have to go to an immigration desk because the automated systems are down.  Supposing you are able to make it through immigration, you will then have the problem again if you use a passport that you did not check in with at the gate as they scan your passport.  Others I travel with regularly have two passports, and this has caused them a 10 minute delay before they can explain to the counter agents what the issue is and show them the two passports.  

2. Ticket in Thai name: Still issue at check-in because they will definitely want to see your UK visa, at which point you will hand them your UK passport with a different name.  This will cause the same potential issues as the previous scenario. One benefit is you will not have any issues with immigration in Thailand, but in the UK again your name will not match the ticket if they check both Ticket and passport.

 

I have traveled in out of the country with dual Thai nationals many times, and they never have any issues if the names in their passports match and they use the Thai passport with Thai immigration and their other passport whenever they arrive in a different country.  

 

I personally do not think the hassle (and possible risk) is worth maintaining two identities.

 

On a side note, when traveling with dual nationals to different countries that use facial recognition (like US, China) or fingerprinting (many others including Thailand) I have seen the question be asked by immigration officials before if the person has a second nationality because the biometrics match a different person.  I have never seen someone stopped or forbidden entry for this after providing a simple explanation that they are a dual national, but I do think it is interesting as more and more countries are keeping biometric data when flying through.  Probably best to keep track of which countries you travel to with which passports.

Here is what happened to the guy in front of me at the check-in line in Europe last year: 

So he checked in with his European passport. They asked for his return ticket, since he had no visa. He said he didn't need either, because he also had a Thai passport. The Thai passport had the Thai name. So yes, it was obviously the same person, but with two different names in the two passports? I totally understand that it ended with him top be asked to go to a back room with the supervisor. I don't know whether he could finally convince someone that it legally possible to have two completely different names in two passports from different countries.

 

On another note, for dual nationals (with the same name in both passports), it is no problem. I always hand them both passports at check-in, and say "this passport is for leaving this country, and I will enter the destination country with that passport". They never raise an eyebrow, they know how to tell the system.

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I don't think you can fly out on the other passport.  I'd say that would qualify as using your foreign passport in Thailand, which automatically cancels you Thai citizenship. I wouldn't risk that.

He said to fly out of Thailand(to a neigbouring country) using the Thai passport. Then fly out that country with the other passport.

[onthemoon]

50 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

He said to fly out of Thailand(to a neigbouring country) using the Thai passport. Then fly out that country with the other passport.

Oh I see, my mistake. I'd think that you will get a problem in that country if you try to use another passport at immigration when exiting the country than the one you used when entering. 

[dbrenn]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:03 PM, Neeranam said:

Thanks, good points, plus it will be illegal to use my UK passport in Thailand. You are right, I'll just keep my original name, but I imagine as a Thai citizen, could change it at any time in the future quite easily. 

 

Whilst it might be tempting to try out an exotic new Thai name, it's better to keep your original one, as I did. Aside from potential travel problem switching names mid flight, the UK, for one, expects that you use the same 'name for official purposes' across all your passports, UK and foreign - which you are obliged to declare - and may refuse to issue you with a UK passport if this is not the case. Not that it's their business what you are called elsewhere, but try there you go.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/548220/Annex_A_passports_August_2016.pdf

 

https://www.stevens-bolton.com/site/insights/articles/dual-citizens-beware-new-uk-passport-rules-regarding-surnames

 

Switching to a Thai name would presumably mean that you have to do likewise in the UK by deed poll, or whatever means, taking the same Thai name in the UK to get your UK passport renewed - a bureaucratic nightmare, that makes taking a Thai name not worth it.

 

Not sure whether other countries have similar (daft) rules.

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Regarding PR holders, when is the moment to handle back PR (and work permit), is it only after you got the Thai national ID card or technically this can be done once you got the post-RG certificate issued by SB? I was wondering if anyone had done this at this stage, before the ID issuance (assuming you make a number of copies of everything before) and if not, what prevents doing that or what would happen if you try this, likely Chaeng Wattana PR section would not take your PR?

 

[khongaeng]

I have a question for those of you that have a gotten a Thai passport.  When you get your first Thai passport, how do they know where your place of birth is?  It is not shown on your ID card or House Registration.  I think I remember reading 100+ pages back that the passport office asked to see someone’s other national passport (many nationalities list place of birth on the passport).  What if you don’t bring your other nationality passport, or if your other nationality passport doesn’t list your birthplace? 

[cmsally]

3 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

I have a question for those of you that have a gotten a Thai passport.  When you get your first Thai passport, how do they know where your place of birth is?  It is not shown on your ID card or House Registration.  I think I remember reading 100+ pages back that the passport office asked to see someone’s other national passport (many nationalities list place of birth on the passport).  What if you don’t bring your other nationality passport, or if your other nationality passport doesn’t list your birthplace? 

I was asked whilst doing my house reg. where my place of birth was.

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

I have a question for those of you that have a gotten a Thai passport.  When you get your first Thai passport, how do they know where your place of birth is?  It is not shown on your ID card or House Registration.  I think I remember reading 100+ pages back that the passport office asked to see someone’s other national passport (many nationalities list place of birth on the passport).  What if you don’t bring your other nationality passport, or if your other nationality passport doesn’t list your birthplace? 

I'd feel safer taking my translated birth certificate. I needed that when adding my parents name to my yellow housebook. Remember, it is illegal to use your  other passport in Thailand.

[Neeranam]

On 5/3/2020 at 12:36 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Regarding PR holders, when is the moment to handle back PR (and work permit), is it only after you got the Thai national ID card or technically this can be done once you got the post-RG certificate issued by SB? I was wondering if anyone had done this at this stage, before the ID issuance (assuming you make a number of copies of everything before) and if not, what prevents doing that or what would happen if you try this, likely Chaeng Wattana PR section would not take your PR?

 

Good question. if my current visa expires between the Royal Gazette announcement and getting the ID, what to do? Would Immigration accept the RG announcement?

[Barty]

1 hour ago, khongaeng said:

I have a question for those of you that have a gotten a Thai passport.  When you get your first Thai passport, how do they know where your place of birth is?  It is not shown on your ID card or House Registration.  I think I remember reading 100+ pages back that the passport office asked to see someone’s other national passport (many nationalities list place of birth on the passport).  What if you don’t bring your other nationality passport, or if your other nationality passport doesn’t list your birthplace? 

In my case I used my original passport to prove my place of birth. The passport office actually asked for the old passport.