Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[onthemoon]

7 hours ago, Arkady said:

Of course, that is right.  I assumed from onthemoon's question that he has no Thai wife and therefore has to be a PR for 5 years before applying. 

That assumption is correct.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I understand that you have to choose ("reserve") a Thai name, but you don't need to use it but can have all docs issued in your original name. Thanks.

That's correct. The naturalisation certificate will be issued in your original name in any case.  Then, if you choose to adopt the Thai name you have reserved, you have to go through the process of applying to change your name at the district office.  Logically you should be able to do this before getting your ID card issued but that might be too logical.  I know a couple of people who opted to take up their Thai names, even though they didn't have to and they enjoy having a complete Thai identity.

[onthemoon]

10 hours ago, Arkady said:

That's correct. The naturalisation certificate will be issued in your original name in any case.  Then, if you choose to adopt the Thai name you have reserved, you have to go through the process of applying to change your name at the district office.  Logically you should be able to do this before getting your ID card issued but that might be too logical.  I know a couple of people who opted to take up their Thai names, even though they didn't have to and they enjoy having a complete Thai identity.

Thanks a lot for the clarification, Arkady.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

On 5/2/2017 at 9:48 AM, GarryP said:

If you elect to use the Thai name you reserve, that name will appear in your id card, passport, house registration documents, driver's license, etc. That is, that will be your identity going forward as far as Thailand is concerned. You cannot pick and chose which of those documents use your Thai name and which use your home country name. I chose not to use the name I reserved and continue to use my English fore and family names. I was hesitant to change a name I had used all my life and believe that difficulties could be encountered if you use both, one on your home country documents and another on Thai documents. As dbrenn mentions, one thing that immediately sprang to mind was when traveling and showing two passports at the check-in counter. If the passports you are showing bear the same name and picture, you are likely to have less of a problem than if, say, your British passport shows Joe Bloggs while your Thai passport shows Somchai Na Klong Toey.  

May I ask a precision on the notion of reserved Thai name. You're not talking about the transliteration of one's original name/surname into Thai language, am I correct? in my case I have it appearing in almost every document (WP, tabian baan, resident permit, alien certificate) and I imagine it's the same for all applicants. Thanks to clarify.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Not the transliteration of you current name. You are asked to choose a 'real' Thai name. As noted above, the requirement has no real meaning as you are not required to ultimately use it. You can keep your current name if you wish, use the name you have chosen in advance, or use another name of your choosing later.


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[GarryP]

11 hours ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

Not the transliteration of you current name. You are asked to choose a 'real' Thai name. As noted above, the requirement has no real meaning as you are not required to ultimately use it. You can keep your current name if you wish, use the name you have chosen in advance, or use another name of your choosing later.


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And the family name you reserve must not duplicate any existing family names, so be prepared with a list of possibilities. I had five on my list and the first four were already taken. 

[NewlyMintedThai]

There is a website where you can type in a surname and it will tell you if it's available or not.


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[Big Guns]

The first Thai name I chose was rejected by my lawyer as she said it didn't sound very Thai

[Arkady]

My understanding is that up until about 15-20 years ago the Thai name you chose actually appeared on the naturalisation certificate, as the name by which you would henceforth be known.  But since that requirement has been dropped (no idea why but grateful for it), the whole rigmarole of selecting and reserving a Thai name, although interesting and fun to do, is just an orphaned piece of regulation that is now redundant. However, what is your new Thai name is the first question most Thais will ask you about your naturalisation, along with questions about your singing of the National Anthem, which many applicants also no longer have to do. News about this arcane process doesn't travel very fast.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

5 hours ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

There is a website where you can type in a surname and it will tell you if it's available or not.


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Could you share the link please?

[NewlyMintedThai]

http://www.khonthai.com/online/WCHECKLNAME/


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[ThaiCitizen]

Can someone tell me if the donation receipts are enough or is a cover letter required. If so, would English be OK, or is Thai better. I have a feeling that just the receipts are OK. Also, my receipts are from 4, 3 and 1 year ago, would this be OK? I heard 5 years was required before.

[Arkady]

31 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

Can someone tell me if the donation receipts are enough or is a cover letter required. If so, would English be OK, or is Thai better. I have a feeling that just the receipts are OK. Also, my receipts are from 4, 3 and 1 year ago, would this be OK? I heard 5 years was required before.

I just submitted copies of the receipts certified as true and correct copies by myself without any covering letter and they were accepted without comment.  Some of the receipts were in English only, although issued by registered Thai charities, and I didn't get them translated.  I believe they tell you 5 years is preferred but there is no hard and fast rule, as far as I know, except that it should not be obvious that you just made the donations a short time before applying in order to qualify.  I had collected receipts over 12 years, so this issue didn't arise for me but I believe that many people only started collecting receipts after they found out about the requirement a year or so before they applied.  Since you have receipts from 4 years ago, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[Fritsie]

Last week I went to the SB to check if all documents I prepared for the application were correct and complete. My charity donation was made in January this year and I didn't get any comments (yet) about the fact it was made only recently. So guess you should be fine. 

[ThaiCitizen]

On 5/5/2017 at 10:55 AM, GarryP said:

And the family name you reserve must not duplicate any existing family names, so be prepared with a list of possibilities. I had five on my list and the first four were already taken. 

I thought of something like Somchai Jumsai Na Nong Kai, would that be allowed?

[GarryP]

2 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

I thought of something like Somchai Jumsai Na Nong Kai, would that be allowed?

No idea, but unlikely. :-) 

[ThaiCitizen]

4 minutes ago, GarryP said:

No idea, but unlikely. :-) 

Joking really but would be interested to know if I could choose one of those kinda names.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No, you cannot choose one of those names (unfortunately) as they are honorary and hereditary only.


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[Arkady]

Of course you cannot choose a "na" prefix and might risk a 112 charge, if you tried it, since, as NMT pointed out, those surnames are either inherited or royally bestowed.  As an aside, one of my wife's acquaintances told everyone she was a na Ayudhya but when she had an accident and people visited her in hospital they were surprised to find her bed tagged with one of those inordinately long surnames favoured by Thai Chinese.  LOL.

[ThaiCitizen]

I know, I was only joking!

 

Do the two Thai people that attest to my good character have to just submit copies of their ID and House Registration or do they need to write a letter or be present when I apply? Could be a problem if they have to be there. Should I go to the influential ones or is the average Joe ok?

[Arkady]

58 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

I know, I was only joking!

 

Do the two Thai people that attest to my good character have to just submit copies of their ID and House Registration or do they need to write a letter or be present when I apply? Could be a problem if they have to be there. Should I go to the influential ones or is the average Joe ok?

 

This question has been discussed at some length recently in the thread.  There is no advantage to you in getting influential Thais as witnesses, because this is merely a box ticking exercise and it will make no difference whatsoever to your application who the witnesses were.  Influential people have in the past been able to help speed up applications, particularly under civilian governments that deliberately stonewalled applications which is not currently the situation,  but only by contacting the minister or someone else very senior personally but they didn't have to be witnesses.  Witnesses don't need to write reference letters.  Refer back in thread for more detailed information about this.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

2 hours ago, ThaiCitizen said:

I know, I was only joking!

 

Do the two Thai people that attest to my good character have to just submit copies of their ID and House Registration or do they need to write a letter or be present when I apply? Could be a problem if they have to be there. 

You have to collect a copy of their ID card and house registration, and each witness has to fill this form

http://www.sb.police.go.th/AA/production/uploads/doc/5_06062553.pdf

They don't have to be there the first time you submit all your documents, because there will be an initial checking for several weeks. As I understood after this they'll be invited with your relatives on the day you sign your application (which they also sign). This is my next step.

Edited May 9, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey
typo

[Arkady]

8 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

You have to collect a copy of their ID card and house registration, and each witness has to fill this form

http://www.sb.police.go.th/AA/production/uploads/doc/5_06062553.pdf

They don't have to be there the first time you submit all your documents, because there will be an initial checking for several weeks. As I understood after this they'll be invited with your relatives on the day you sign your application (which they also sign). This is my next step.

 

I think the OP had to bring his witnesses to the SB office but it seems up to SB whether they want to call them in or not.  In recent years they seem to have mainly let them sign stuff without coming in. You need to clarify with your case officer before approaching your witnesses.

[red horse]

Dear big gun
In the which month,which year
you interviewed with interior ministry at lamlukua.
And when was your oath completed or when will it be ...


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[ThaiCitizen]

I’m getting the documents together now. Can anyone advice if I need to copy EVERY page in my passport, work permit and my tabien baan and my family’s tabien baan?

 

 

Also, after visiting the Special Branch in Bkk, they told me that I need to submit the documents to the Amphur in my Province and not the SB policeman here. Seemingly, I am a test case, never been done before in Khon Kaen, which surprises me, actually I don't believe nobody in KK has ever become a naturalized Thai. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by ThaiCitizen

[Arkady]

30 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

I’m getting the documents together now. Can anyone advice if I need to copy EVERY page in my passport, work permit and my tabien baan and my family’s tabien baan?

 

 

Also, after visiting the Special Branch in Bkk, they told me that I need to submit the documents to the Amphur in my Province and not the SB policeman here. Seemingly, I am a test case, never been done before in Khon Kaen, which surprises me, actually I don't believe nobody in KK has ever become a naturalized Thai. 

 

I copied every page that had something in it, ignoring the blank pages, and that seemed to fit the bill. 

 

The advice to submit your application to your amphur in Khon Kaen sounds strange.  Special Branch has the duty to screen applications before submitting complete ones to the Interior Ministry for consideration. Residents of Bangkok have to to submit applications to SB at National Police HQ and residents outside Bangkok have to submit applications to the SB provincial HQ in their province.  That was clearly written in the regulations and, if it has changed to make provincial applicants apply to their district offices, there must be a new regulation specifying that.  Since the screening is a police function that involves liaising with several police departments, the narcotics office and the NIA, it is hard to believe it has been delegated to district offices but anything is possible here.  I would do some careful research on the SB website where they list all the regulations to do with nationality applications and/or ask SB in Bkk for the reference.  You are going to need it, if you really have to apply to your district office, as they would almost certainly deny all knowledge and would probably refuse to process your application anyway, as has happened to many people who tried to apply to SB provincial HQs that just couldn't be bothered.

 

The traditional advice has been to transfer your tabien baan to a friend's house in Bkk, if you live in a province that has no track record in helping people apply for nationality.  I think only Chonburi and Phuket are considered reliable in this respect but there must more.  I would think very carefully before deciding to go ahead in Khon Kaen.  It is a difficult process and you don't want the odds stacked against you before you start or to just find they refuse to deal with you at all.  Nearly all of the people who get naturalised have Bkk addresses and I have never seen any announcements of successful applicants from Khon Kaen or any of the Isaan provinces.  If you want to give it a try, I would suggest finding the correct office in Khon Kaen to apply to and going to sound them out, as to whether they are willing and able to process your application.   Even Bkk SB has screwed up quite a number of applications that, either led to delays and huge hassles (as in my case) or outright rejection.  I was once showed a pile of files on a desk of  applicants who had waited for years only to be rejected after the MOI interview, due to mainly technical errors in their applications. 

 

 

[ThaiCitizen]

3 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

I copied every page that had something in it, ignoring the blank pages, and that seemed to fit the bill. 

 

The advice to submit your application to your amphur in Khon Kaen sounds strange.  Special Branch has the duty to screen applications before submitting complete ones to the Interior Ministry for consideration. Residents of Bangkok have to to submit applications to SB at National Police HQ and residents outside Bangkok have to submit applications to the SB provincial HQ in their province.  That was clearly written in the regulations and, if it has changed to make provincial applicants apply to their district offices, there must be a new regulation specifying that.  Since the screening is a police function that involves liaising with several police departments, the narcotics office and the NIA, it is hard to believe it has been delegated to district offices but anything is possible here.  I would do some careful research on the SB website where they list all the regulations to do with nationality applications and/or ask SB in Bkk for the reference.  You are going to need it, if you really have to apply to your district office, as they would almost certainly deny all knowledge and would probably refuse to process your application anyway, as has happened to many people who tried to apply to SB provincial HQs that just couldn't be bothered.

 

The traditional advice has been to transfer your tabien baan to a friend's house in Bkk, if you live in a province that has no track record in helping people apply for nationality.  I think only Chonburi and Phuket are considered reliable in this respect but there must more.  I would think very carefully before deciding to go ahead in Khon Kaen.  It is a difficult process and you don't want the odds stacked against you before you start or to just find they refuse to deal with you at all.  Nearly all of the people who get naturalised have Bkk addresses and I have never seen any announcements of successful applicants from Khon Kaen or any of the Isaan provinces.  If you want to give it a try, I would suggest finding the correct office in Khon Kaen to apply to and going to sound them out, as to whether they are willing and able to process your application.   Even Bkk SB has screwed up quite a number of applications that, either led to delays and huge hassles (as in my case) or outright rejection.  I was once showed a pile of files on a desk of  applicants who had waited for years only to be rejected after the MOI interview, due to mainly technical errors in their applications. 

 

 

Thanks a lot Arkady! I went to the SB in BKK, who emphatically told me to take it to the Amphur, not the SB policeman. I'll get the docs ready, then phone Bkk and ask again. I think it might be more of a hassle travelling down to Bangok whenever required, especially with family and Thai people vouching for me.

[GarryP]

9 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 I was once showed a pile of files on a desk of  applicants who had waited for years only to be rejected after the MOI interview, due to mainly technical errors in their applications. 

 

 

That is frightening. Rejection  for technical errors that should have been spotted by SB. That would be devastating. 

[ThaiCitizen]

On 3/15/2017 at 2:12 PM, Arkady said:

There is no list of authorised translators. You may use any translation agency of your choice, as long as they certify it with their stamp that has their name, address and phone number on it.  There is no need to restrict the list of translators because the MoFA will vet the translations anyway, when you get them legalised, and will knock them back, if there is the slightest trivial thing they feel is not quite right, while often completely overlooking glaring translation errors. For that reason it may be a good idea to either get your translation agency to handle the legalisation which involves a long time queuing at the MoFA office in Chaengwattana, or use one of the translation agencies in the same building, so they can correct mistakes on the spot.  No need to ask me how I found this out!

It is possible to translate it yourself, and sign it. Well, I've done this with other documents. 

[Arkady]

15 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

It is possible to translate it yourself, and sign it. Well, I've done this with other documents. 

 

No. You need the stamp of the translation agency which has to carry their name, address and telephone no.