Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[MrPatrickThai]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

You are right.  The checking with other departments can only start after SB has accepted your application after language tests and interview have been carried out by SB including section head and his boss (the director upstairs) and they have finger printed you and received the fee.  Then they will send your file around to other agencies for vetting and give you letters to get your WP and tabien baan certified.  When all is done, your file will be sent to the MoI.  Perhaps there is some delay in getting the director to see you or sign.  Give it a couple more weeks or another month and, if still nothing, drop by the office with some fruit or sticky sweets that Thais love as an excuse.  They might be open face to face.       

Interesting, as I've been told to certify my WP and Tabien Baan NOW. I wonder if I should ask Bkk to have a word with the local guy about there being an official letter. or maybe I will be able to bypass this step if I do it now. 

[greenchair]

I'd just like to let people know that speaking thai is not an absolute prerequisite to citizenship. My interview as SB consisted of. 

Do you like thailand? 

Do you like thai food? 

What food do you like? 

How long have you been in Thailand? 

My MOI interview was almost the same except they added. 

Where did you  meet? 

Do you have children? 

The questions that I did not understand were set aside and everyone smiled. 

If you don't read thai that's fine, your partner can do it for you. 

[MrPatrickThai]

Well the nice helpful policeman in Khon Kaen doesn’t want to talk to the Special Branch in Bangkok!

My wife called Bangkok to check if she had to go to Bangkok and her hometown to get the Amphurs to verify the birth certificates and IDs etc, to find out what I we already knew, that she DOESN”T. She then called the KK guy and asked to make an appointment with him and to call Bangkok to explain the procedure. He flatly refused to deal with Bkk. Maybe a bottle of whisky or a cash amount would make him change his mind!

So, now the big decision is to carry on with the KK guy and get my wife to go to BKK to get this verification then the KK guy will send the docs to Bangkok OR just transfer my Tabien Baan to Bangkok and do it from there.

 

I’m thinking of the latter now but SB in BKK said I’d have to wait 3 months.

If I did go this route, approximately how many trips to Bangkok would be needed?

I expect the initial application, then the SB interview, then the MOI interview and maybe a few more?

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?  Would they ever visit my “address” in Bangkok?

[yankee99]

I can tell you what I wouldn't do is give gifts of any kind.

[Arkady]

On 7/4/2017 at 2:02 PM, greenchair said:

I'd just like to let people know that speaking thai is not an absolute prerequisite to citizenship. My interview as SB consisted of. 

Do you like thailand? 

Do you like thai food? 

What food do you like? 

How long have you been in Thailand? 

My MOI interview was almost the same except they added. 

Where did you  meet? 

Do you have children? 

The questions that I did not understand were set aside and everyone smiled. 

If you don't read thai that's fine, your partner can do it for you. 

It is an absolute requirement, if you apply on the basis of permanent residence, rather than on the basis of marriage to a Thai citizen.  Knowledge of the Thai language is specifically required by those applicants in the Nationality Act. So there is no way around it. You have to pass

SB's language test and the MoI interview is much tougher.  Mine lasted for 15 minutes and I was asked questions about the Thai economy and the gold price among other things, in addition to singing the two songs.      

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Well the nice helpful policeman in Khon Kaen doesn’t want to talk to the Special Branch in Bangkok!

My wife called Bangkok to check if she had to go to Bangkok and her hometown to get the Amphurs to verify the birth certificates and IDs etc, to find out what I we already knew, that she DOESN”T. She then called the KK guy and asked to make an appointment with him and to call Bangkok to explain the procedure. He flatly refused to deal with Bkk. Maybe a bottle of whisky or a cash amount would make him change his mind!

So, now the big decision is to carry on with the KK guy and get my wife to go to BKK to get this verification then the KK guy will send the docs to Bangkok OR just transfer my Tabien Baan to Bangkok and do it from there.

 

I’m thinking of the latter now but SB in BKK said I’d have to wait 3 months.

If I did go this route, approximately how many trips to Bangkok would be needed?

I expect the initial application, then the SB interview, then the MOI interview and maybe a few more?

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?  Would they ever visit my “address” in Bangkok?

 

I would not be averse to handing out low value gifts like sticky cakes and fruit which are below the threshold of corruption regulations but I think you have situation which cannot be solved that easily.  You are dealing with an official who has no idea what he is doing and refuses to talk to his colleagues in Bangkok who do know what they are doing (most of the time) for fear of losing face.  So he is just making up his rules and trying to muddle through what is essentially a fairly complex process that must pass muster with the MoI which is known to be utterly intolerant of any mistakes made the police that it makes clear it despises.

 

It is your own call but my inclination would be to cut losses at this point and move your tabien baan to Bangkok.  There is a fairly small risk that SB Bkk would  stuff up your application but the risk that KK will stuff it up now seems unacceptably high.  They are trying to force you to get documents that are clearly not required and are very likely to miss out things that are required and may make critical mistakes in drafting the covering letter, as SB Bkk did in mine.  And the downside is that, if they do stuff up, you may only find out you are back to square one or facing major hassles to correct the problems in 2 or 3 years' time.   If you decide to move your tabien baan, SB Bkk should be able to answer your questions about how to finesse that.  They have handled this situation many times before with many upcountry based applicants who are now happy citizens.  I would suggest sitting down with them and talking it through before making a decision.  It is easier for them to discuss these things face to face.        

[choonsan]

On 6/3/2017 at 8:03 PM, red horse said:

I also interviewed at MOI 31 may last year.still no news about Royal endorsement.if you have any news about this please share.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

My application was signed by His Majesty the King last month. I went to SB and took the oath last week. Hopefully my name will be included in the next Royal Gazette.

[Big Guns]

On 4/7/2560 at 2:02 PM, greenchair said:

I'd just like to let people know that speaking thai is not an absolute prerequisite to citizenship. My interview as SB consisted of. 

Do you like thailand? 

Do you like thai food? 

What food do you like? 

How long have you been in Thailand? 

My MOI interview was almost the same except they added. 

Where did you  meet? 

Do you have children? 

The questions that I did not understand were set aside and everyone smiled. 

If you don't read thai that's fine, your partner can do it for you. 

I completely agree. To those of you who are married to Thai nationals and don't speak Thai don't worry, I couldn't even answer those questions and I still passed.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, choonsan said:

My application was signed by His Majesty the King last month. I went to SB and took the oath last week. Hopefully my name will be included in the next Royal Gazette.

 

Congratulations. Good news.  I think you are the first I have seen to report royal approval under the new reign, although there may, of course, have been earlier ones not reported here or that I didn't see. 

[Big Guns]

34 minutes ago, choonsan said:

My application was signed by His Majesty the King last month. I went to SB and took the oath last week. Hopefully my name will be included in the next Royal Gazette.

Congratulations, I'm in the same boat I did the oath in May.

[Arkady]

2 minutes ago, Big Guns said:

I completely agree. To those of you who are married to Thai nationals and don't speak Thai don't worry, I couldn't even answer those questions and I still passed.

 

Perhaps Thailand will soon offer citizenship applications for spouses in English, Chinese and other languages, just like the US does in Spanish. 

 

The UK has moved in the opposite direction riding a wave of xenophobia instituted by the vicar's daughter when she was Home Secretary .  Many Thai spouses of British Citizens living in the UK will never even get Indefinite Leave to Remain due to the disgraceful Life in the UK test, let alone ever get a crack at citizenship.   

[choonsan]

5 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

Congratulations. Good news.  I think you are the first to report royal approval under the new reign, although there may, of course, have been earlier ones not reported here. 

Thanks Arkady. Hope you will get your soon too.

[Big Guns]

17 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Well the nice helpful policeman in Khon Kaen doesn’t want to talk to the Special Branch in Bangkok!

My wife called Bangkok to check if she had to go to Bangkok and her hometown to get the Amphurs to verify the birth certificates and IDs etc, to find out what I we already knew, that she DOESN”T. She then called the KK guy and asked to make an appointment with him and to call Bangkok to explain the procedure. He flatly refused to deal with Bkk. Maybe a bottle of whisky or a cash amount would make him change his mind!

So, now the big decision is to carry on with the KK guy and get my wife to go to BKK to get this verification then the KK guy will send the docs to Bangkok OR just transfer my Tabien Baan to Bangkok and do it from there.

 

I’m thinking of the latter now but SB in BKK said I’d have to wait 3 months.

If I did go this route, approximately how many trips to Bangkok would be needed?

I expect the initial application, then the SB interview, then the MOI interview and maybe a few more?

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?  Would they ever visit my “address” in Bangkok?

I would register in Bangkok. Just a word of caution some Amphurs will not do it and one flatly refused to register me. I had to go to a 'friendly Amphur' that my lawyer knew and register in her Tabien Baan. Its just a formality as my work permit is in Rayong and this was never questioned my special branch, NIA or MOI.

[Arkady]

25 minutes ago, choonsan said:

Thanks Arkady. Hope you will get your soon too.

 

Thanks but I got my ID card nearly 3 years ago.

[red horse]

My application was signed by His Majesty the King last month. I went to SB and took the oath last week. Hopefully my name will be included in the next Royal Gazette.

Congratulations.i also oath 23 jun.waiting for royal Gazette


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TheChiefJustice]

 
Thanks but I got my ID card nearly 3 years ago.

How time flies! I got mine just over 5 years ago now. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MrPatrickThai]

Quote

It is your own call but my inclination would be to cut losses at this point and move your tabien baan to Bangkok.  There is a fairly small risk that SB Bkk would  stuff up your application but the risk that KK will stuff it up now seems unacceptably high.  They are trying to force you to get documents that are clearly not required and are very likely to miss out things that are required and may make critical mistakes in drafting the covering letter, as SB Bkk did in mine.  And the downside is that, if they do stuff up, you may only find out you are back to square one or facing major hassles to correct the problems in 2 or 3 years' time.   If you decide to move your tabien baan, SB Bkk should be able to answer your questions about how to finesse that.  They have handled this situation many times before with many upcountry based applicants who are now happy citizens.  I would suggest sitting down with them and talking it through before making a decision.  It is easier for them to discuss these things face to face.        

Thanks for the advice and I agree with you.  I'll try to get my name on a friend's house on Param 9. I wonder if I need a letter from the amphur in Khon Kaen? 

[MrPatrickThai]

4 hours ago, Big Guns said:

I would register in Bangkok. Just a word of caution some Amphurs will not do it and one flatly refused to register me. I had to go to a 'friendly Amphur' that my lawyer knew and register in her Tabien Baan. Its just a formality as my work permit is in Rayong and this was never questioned my special branch, NIA or MOI.

Thanks for the advice! 

 

Did you have to take your wife with you?

 

I plan to go down to Bangkok  next week. it would be rather inconvenient to take my wife , and therefore my kids.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Thanks for the advice and I agree with you.  I'll try to get my name on a friend's house on Param 9. I wonder if I need a letter from the amphur in Khon Kaen? 

 

Yes, you need to inform your exist DO you are moving and they give some documentation to take to your new DO. I don't think you need to take your wife with you, unless she is moving her tabien baan to Bkk too. 

 

Big Guns or others may be able to comment on whether it is OK to leave your wife on another tabien baan upcountry or whether she should be on the same one, since you are applying on the basis of marriage. My wife was on another tabien baan which was not a problem but I applied on the basis of PR.

[sas_cars]

 
Yes, you need to inform your exist DO you are moving and they give some documentation to take to your new DO. I don't think you need to take your wife with you, unless she is moving her tabien baan to Bkk too. 
 
Big Guns or others may be able to comment on whether it is OK to leave your wife on another tabien baan upcountry or whether she should be on the same one, since you are applying on the basis of marriage. My wife was on another tabien baan which was not a problem but I applied on the basis of PR.

If applying by PR route, What happens if you pass the interview but you are failed or forget to sing some lyrics of the anthems ? Do you happen to get a quick re-interview date or have to wait years to be re-interviewd and another crack at singing the anthems?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Don't worry about it; the interviewers are very forgiving. I drew a blank on one of the lines halfway through my "performance", and they prompted me. Don't sweat it too much.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[aidenai]

 

Big Guns or others may be able to comment on whether it is OK to leave your wife on another tabien baan upcountry or whether she should be on the same one, since you are applying on the basis of marriage. My wife was on another tabien baan which was not a problem but I applied on the basis of PR.

My wife was on a tabien baan upcountry while I was on a Bangkok tabien baan. No problems what so ever. Applied in 2009 though.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, sas_cars said:

 

If applying by PR route, What happens if you pass the interview but you are failed or forget to sing some lyrics of the anthems ? Do you happen to get a quick re-interview date or have to wait years to be re-interviewd and another crack at singing the anthems?

As Newly Minted Thai said, they are usually quite forgiving but there have been cases where applicants have been given more than one chance to sing one or other or both songs to try to get it right.  I have also heard of a couple of cases where applicants failed the interview due to their singing.  I believe they are usually invited back to try again in the next batch.  I asked this specific question of one of the staff while I was waiting anxiously for my turn and she said don't worry they are very jai dee and they are not too strict.  A little later the same staffer told me there seemed to be a hold up because there was a Chinese couple applying together and they were having to repeat the songs several times which did little to calm my nerves.  She added that the wife could hardly speak Thai at all.

 

My own approach was to practice the songs fairly regularly but not obsessively in the run up to the interview until I was sure I know them by heart and knew which part of my vocal range (key) to start in.  This is particularly important in the Royal Anthem because the tune starts off quite low but has a fairly wide range of notes and goes rather high at one point.  If you start off the song at a comfortable part of your vocal range, you will end up either squeaking the high notes or having to drop an octave, which sounds bad.  So start singing that one almost as low as you can go to make sure you can fit all the notes in.  My interview was on a Monday, so for the week-end before I pulled out all the stops and rehearsed the songs as much as I could but being careful not to make myself hoarse.  I have had some experience of musical performances, so I know that it pays to drum it in before the opening night or equivalent, so that you can perform like an automaton when the stage fright is trying to rob you of your memory.  In the end I managed to sing both songs without an error.  I am sure I couild have passed with less preparation but didn't want to leave anything to chance. 

 

Looking at the types who were waiting for interview and hearing how badly some of them spoke Thai, I have no doubt the applicants who are made to the repeat the singing or even made to come back again later are absolutely appalling, as in being unable to sing the complete songs.  I know one Indian woman that had to repeat the songs who admitted she can't sing for toffee  and can't speak much Thai either.  In the end virtually all seem to end up as Thai citizens.  If you make a decent effort at singing the songs and only stumble or go blank a couple of times, I am quite sure you will get through first time.         

[dbrenn]

9 hours ago, Arkady said:

As Newly Minted Thai said, they are usually quite forgiving but there have been cases where applicants have been given more than one chance to sing one or other or both songs to try to get it right.  I have also heard of a couple of cases where applicants failed the interview due to their singing.  I believe they are usually invited back to try again in the next batch.  I asked this specific question of one of the staff while I was waiting anxiously for my turn and she said don't worry they are very jai dee and they are not too strict.  A little later the same staffer told me there seemed to be a hold up because there was a Chinese couple applying together and they were having to repeat the songs several times which did little to calm my nerves.  She added that the wife could hardly speak Thai at all.

 

My own approach was to practice the songs fairly regularly but not obsessively in the run up to the interview until I was sure I know them by heart and knew which part of my vocal range (key) to start in.  This is particularly important in the Royal Anthem because the tune starts off quite low but has a fairly wide range of notes and goes rather high at one point.  If you start off the song at a comfortable part of your vocal range, you will end up either squeaking the high notes or having to drop an octave, which sounds bad.  So start singing that one almost as low as you can go to make sure you can fit all the notes in.  My interview was on a Monday, so for the week-end before I pulled out all the stops and rehearsed the songs as much as I could but being careful not to make myself hoarse.  I have had some experience of musical performances, so I know that it pays to drum it in before the opening night or equivalent, so that you can perform like an automaton when the stage fright is trying to rob you of your memory.  In the end I managed to sing both songs without an error.  I am sure I couild have passed with less preparation but didn't want to leave anything to chance. 

 

Looking at the types who were waiting for interview and hearing how badly some of them spoke Thai, I have no doubt the applicants who are made to the repeat the singing or even made to come back again later are absolutely appalling, as in being unable to sing the complete songs.  I know one Indian woman that had to repeat the songs who admitted she can't sing for toffee  and can't speak much Thai either.  In the end virtually all seem to end up as Thai citizens.  If you make a decent effort at singing the songs and only stumble or go blank a couple of times, I am quite sure you will get through first time.         

The hardest part I found about the singing was keeping a straight face -- there I was standing in front of this committee, all intently watching me with deadpan faces, I was clutching a microphone, with my awful singing voice reverberating through the sound system. At that time, I was allowed to sing from a hymn sheet, which made it a bit easier.

 

It was a surreal experience, and I nearly burst into hysterics a couple of times, but disguised my laughter as coughing.

 

[MrPatrickThai]

22 hours ago, Big Guns said:

I would register in Bangkok. Just a word of caution some Amphurs will not do it and one flatly refused to register me. I had to go to a 'friendly Amphur' that my lawyer knew and register in her Tabien Baan. Its just a formality as my work permit is in Rayong and this was never questioned my special branch, NIA or MOI.

What reason did they give for not giving it? 

[Big Guns]

The forst  Amphur in Bangkok refused to process it because my work permit is in Rayong. Your wife doesn't have to be on the tabien baan in Bangkok.

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, dbrenn said:

The hardest part I found about the singing was keeping a straight face -- there I was standing in front of this committee, all intently watching me with deadpan faces, I was clutching a microphone, with my awful singing voice reverberating through the sound system. At that time, I was allowed to sing from a hymn sheet, which made it a bit easier.

 

It was a surreal experience, and I nearly burst into hysterics a couple of times, but disguised my laughter as coughing.

 

It is certainly an experience to treasure.  During my rendering of the National Anthem the officials were noisily chattering amongst themselves and playing with their smart phones which I found a little offputting.  But when I segued into Pleng Sansoen Phra Barami, they all suddenly fell  silent and looked at me intently, making me think I had committed a major glitch but it was probably, in fact, out of respect for HMK.  When I finished, the stony silence continued for what seemed like a lifetime, making me certain I had definitely got something horribly wrong.  Then a round of applause erupted which stunned me.  Luckily I hadn't noticed while I was singing that my wife had somehow talked her way in and was sitting with the junior officials around the wall, as seeing her would have made me crack up completely.  I had last seen her being told she couldn't come in because my application was not on the basis of being married to her.   

[MrPatrickThai]

11 hours ago, Big Guns said:

The forst  Amphur in Bangkok refused to process it because my work permit is in Rayong. Your wife doesn't have to be on the tabien baan in Bangkok.

I wonder what I should say if they ask me why I'm moving it to Bangkok, any ideas? 

Should I tell them the truth?

Should my friend ask the amphur first? It's a long way to go to be told no.

I guess I just need my passport, WP and letter from my local Amphur. Anything I've forgotten? maybe there's another thread about this.

 

Would it be wise to visit the SB first to get their opinion, and maybe some letter from them?

Edited July 7, 2017 by MrPatrickThai

[bwpage3]

The only issue I would see is if you travel outside of Thailand.

 

Now you have a Thai passport and getting a VISA to some first world countries with a Thai passport is not an easy task.

 

If you are going to live in Thailand forever, you did the right thing.

 

Thailand would not be so bad if you did not have all the VISA hoops to jump through and you could get along like you please.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Keep your original passport. Problem solved.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect