Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[MrPatrickThai]

On 10/1/2017 at 8:15 AM, Big Guns said:

For me it was a 2 year gap between NIA & MOI. I didn't have a language test  I most certainly would have failed. My wife was great at translating during NIA & MOI

Do I have to take my wife to the MOI and NIA interviews?

[Big Guns]

8 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Do I have to take my wife to the MOI and NIA interviews?

 

If you applied on the basis of being married to a Thai citizen then you must take your wife to the interviews.

[MrPatrickThai]

Just now, Big Guns said:

 

If you applied on the basis of being married to a Thai citizen then you must take your wife to the interviews.

Damn, that's a pain :) I mean for looking after garden, kids, pets etc and extra cost.

But she doesn't have to speak, I presume.

 

Thanks! 

[Arkady]

29 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Damn, that's a pain :) I mean for looking after garden, kids, pets etc and extra cost.

But she doesn't have to speak, I presume.

 

Thanks! 

 

Since your right to apply is based on your marriage to her, you will naturally be interviewed together.

 

Increasingly people have figured out that the exemption from knowledge of Thai language for those with a Thai wife means more than not having to sing, as SB would have you believe. It is possible to apply literally without any knowledge of the Thai language, as long as they can get enough points with zero or close to zero for Thai language and are allowed by SB to cheat in the Knowledge of Thailand test.  In these cases the wife is allowed to be an interpreter in the interview.  This was ever the case for foreign women applying to adopt the Thai nationality of their husbands, as they have never been expected to be able to speak Thai.  What's source for the goose is sauce for the gander.    

[GabbaGabbaHey]

23 hours ago, Big Guns said:

 

Prepare to introduce yourself and cover how long you have been in Thailand, what you do for a living and why you want to be a Thai national. Remember that your wife can translate for you and you don't really have to be able to speak very much Thai. Dress smartly and remember that if you create a positive impression you can't really fail. Be prepared for what at first sight is quite an intimidating setting with you and your partner facing a 'u shaped' table setting of about 20 or so officials with microphones asking you questions. The duration of mine was only 5 or 10 minutes and if I knew what I have just written then I would have been a lot calmer.

Hi Big Guns, as spotted by Arkady, in this post were you describing the MOI interview or the NIA interview? Since I'm attending the NIA interview shortly I'm interested to know things like how many people are there? what is the format of the interview (introduce yourself and then answer questions I presume).  How long does it take? 

[Arkady]

33 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Hi Big Guns, as spotted by Arkady, in this post were you describing the MOI interview or the NIA interview? Since I'm attending the NIA interview shortly I'm interested to know things like how many people are there? what is the format of the interview (introduce yourself and then answer questions I presume).  How long does it take? 

 

Perhaps things have changed but my interview was conducted informally by only one officer at McD's.  The format was that he asked questions without asking me to introduce myself.  If they are now asking you to go to their office, the set-up could be more formal with more officers involved.   If you have a Thai wife, they will want her present, even if you are applying on the basis of PR. 

 

Please let us know how it goes.

[qualtrough]

I am beginning the application process and have a question about the need for a letter of intention to renounce your current citizenship once you receive Thai citizenship. This is item #17 on the SB handout. I am trying to find out if this is a form letter that I can fill out and my embassy can endorse or certify, or something I create and sign. Someone on another thread said that Arkady had talked about that and perhaps provided an example, but when I search I couldn't find it. Can anyone shed any light on this requirement?

[GabbaGabbaHey]

31 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

I am beginning the application process and have a question about the need for a letter of intention to renounce your current citizenship once you receive Thai citizenship. This is item #17 on the SB handout. I am trying to find out if this is a form letter that I can fill out and my embassy can endorse or certify, or something I create and sign. Someone on another thread said that Arkady had talked about that and perhaps provided an example, but when I search I couldn't find it. Can anyone shed any light on this requirement?

From my recent experience, this letter should not be needed from the very beginning. The reason is that as you advance in the process you'll receive letters addressed to various places, including the one asking for the letter of intention to your embassy. At that time only you should collect it. Of course you can do it earlier, but as in my case, it means the letter doesn't contain any reference number from SB request. My recommendation: collect everything else but leave this before SB will ask you, and... go to meet SB officers as soon as possible. I probably lost many months trying to compile a perfect application, only to discover SB will "send you home with a pile of homework" to quote Arkady's words from earlier posts. 

[Arkady]

34 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

I am beginning the application process and have a question about the need for a letter of intention to renounce your current citizenship once you receive Thai citizenship. This is item #17 on the SB handout. I am trying to find out if this is a form letter that I can fill out and my embassy can endorse or certify, or something I create and sign. Someone on another thread said that Arkady had talked about that and perhaps provided an example, but when I search I couldn't find it. Can anyone shed any light on this requirement?

 

Embassies usually call it witnessing a declaration or a statutory declaration.  Most will witness a declaration using the wording you give them, as long as it conforms with their rules. Because personnel and ideas change, it's probably a good idea to ask SB, if they have any standard wording they want you to use before you go ahead. For what it's worth the one I used which I just adapted from something I found online is attached.    

Declaration.doc

[Arkady]

6 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

From my recent experience, this letter should not be needed from the very beginning. The reason is that as you advance in the process you'll receive letters addressed to various places, including the one asking for the letter of intention to your embassy. At that time only you should collect it. Of course you can do it earlier, but as in my case, it means the letter doesn't contain any reference number from SB request. My recommendation: collect everything else but leave this before SB will ask you, and... go to meet SB officers as soon as possible. I probably lost many months trying to compile a perfect application, only to discover SB will "send you home with a pile of homework" to quote Arkady's words from earlier posts. 

 

Good advice.  SB can be relied upon to find something you didn't anticipate.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

The naturalization section at SB is very friendly and extremely helpful, they'll tell you exactly what is needed. IMO the best for new applicants is to go there the first time with all originals you have and not even need to copy anything, they'll go through the list of requirement one by one so that you can know what is missing and bring it back on the subsequent visits. Because clearly nobody can submit a complete set of documents right from the beginning, there will be additions and there will be corrections requested. Iteration and patience work the best here. Some examples of documents which are not part of the original list, that I had to provide -and it doesn't mean everyone will have to provide them-:
- Copy of the passport containing my first entry to Thailand
- Certificate of criminal status in my country of origin
- Letter describing myself (background, how I met my wife, why I came to Thailand, past jobs in Thailand, relatives...)
Regarding my document corrections:
- My salary letter missed a clear sentence of the average monthly salary (which must be 1/12 of the total annual income).
- My name in WP and PR were written differently in Thai. I had to request a change in WP.

Take this as informational only, it's just to give you an idea of the details that are needed, because for sure SB and the applicant share the same goal which is to succeed in the application. 

 

And if you want to really prepare the letter of intention from the beginning, the best is to go to your embassy and ask them which document they provided for the previous applicant to Thai citizenship. On my side I lost time producing a draft letter and I found they already had a template there.

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

[...]
- Copy of the passport containing my first entry to Thailand
[...]
- Letter describing myself (background, how I met my wife, why I came to Thailand, past jobs in Thailand, relatives...)
[...]
- My name in WP and PR were written differently in Thai. I had to request a change in WP.

[...]

And if you want to really prepare the letter of intention from the beginning, the best is to go to your embassy and ask them which document they provided for the previous applicant to Thai citizenship.

 

I have snipped your reply a bit to the questions I have. Thanks for understanding.

 

My first entry to Thailand was in 1987 as a backpacker - I don't think I have that passport any more! Are you sure this is required?

 

I can write a book about me and Thailand. Is there a size limit?

 

Yeah, different spelling here too. How long did it take to change the spelling? And in fact, in my case, the spelling in the WP is correct, the one in the PR would need the amendment. But I believe it would be easier to change the WP.

 

I heard from my embassy that they won't issue this letter any more if they know you want to keep the original citizenship. I believe this will be the biggest hurdle.

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Embassies usually call it witnessing a declaration or a statutory declaration.  Most will witness a declaration using the wording you give them, as long as it conforms with their rules. Because personnel and ideas change, it's probably a good idea to ask SB, if they have any standard wording they want you to use before you go ahead. For what it's worth the one I used which I just adapted from something I found online is attached.    

Declaration.doc

 

Thanks for the sample text, but I thought it would have to be in Thai?

[GarryP]

23 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

 

Thanks for the sample text, but I thought it would have to be in Thai?

I doubt very much that any embassy, apart from a Thai one, would certify a document in the Thai language.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

45 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

My first entry to Thailand was in 1987 as a backpacker - I don't think I have that passport any more! Are you sure this is required?

 

I can write a book about me and Thailand. Is there a size limit?

 

Yeah, different spelling here too. How long did it take to change the spelling? And in fact, in my case, the spelling in the WP is correct, the one in the PR would need the amendment. But I believe it would be easier to change the WP.

- First entry: nothing much you can do except wait to see if they ask for it. Perhaps they'll ask the most recent entry you can find?

- Letter to present yourself: I personally did one page two sides. 8 paragraphs, 5-10 lines each.

- Amending WP is much easier. There's only one form to fill, and they just add an indication on one page. 1-2 days max I'd say, but I used my company's lawyer so it took longer.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

 

Thanks for the sample text, but I thought it would have to be in Thai?

What I did was 1) have my embassy issue it in my original language 2) translate it in Thai by a translator that is accredited by my embassy 3) Bring to my embassy to bundle both and certify the thai translator 4) Bring to Chaeng Wattana to have the Dpt of Consular Affairs certify the signature from my embassy... 

[MrPatrickThai]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I heard from my embassy that they won't issue this letter any more if they know you want to keep the original citizenship. I believe this will be the biggest hurdle.

Interesting. I heard from a hiso(the king was at her wedding!) friend today that she knows some rich Thais in the US that were caught in Thailand using two passports. She's not sure what happened to them but although she lives(married to an American) in the US, she's not going for dual citizenship as she owns a lot of land in Thailand and is scared it might be nabbed. I told her this was not the case but she seemed adamant that it was safer not to get two passports.

[MrPatrickThai]

4 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

The naturalization section at SB is very friendly and extremely helpful, they'll tell you exactly what is needed. IMO the best for new applicants is to go there the first time with all originals you have and not even need to copy anything, they'll go through the list of requirement one by one so that you can know what is missing and bring it back on the subsequent visits. Because clearly nobody can submit a complete set of documents right from the beginning, there will be additions and there will be corrections requested. Iteration and patience work the best here. Some examples of documents which are not part of the original list, that I had to provide -and it doesn't mean everyone will have to provide them-:
- Copy of the passport containing my first entry to Thailand
- Certificate of criminal status in my country of origin
- Letter describing myself (background, how I met my wife, why I came to Thailand, past jobs in Thailand, relatives...)
Regarding my document corrections:
- My salary letter missed a clear sentence of the average monthly salary (which must be 1/12 of the total annual income).
- My name in WP and PR were written differently in Thai. I had to request a change in WP.

Take this as informational only, it's just to give you an idea of the details that are needed, because for sure SB and the applicant share the same goal which is to succeed in the application. 

 

And if you want to really prepare the letter of intention from the beginning, the best is to go to your embassy and ask them which document they provided for the previous applicant to Thai citizenship. On my side I lost time producing a draft letter and I found they already had a template there.

Good advice.

 

To add  -  the extras I was asked for ;-

 

- donation letter from Rotary club to be translate to Thai

- letter from kids' schools

- new letter from bank( 3 months  old)

- new letter from work( 3 months  old)

- wife's photographs were too small

- needed 2x2 photos of kids

 

Oh, this was after giving the extra documents the first time!

I'm expecting more to be needed, but hoping not, then can officially apply, hopefully this month.

[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

- First entry: nothing much you can do except wait to see if they ask for it. Perhaps they'll ask the most recent entry you can find?

- Letter to present yourself: I personally did one page two sides. 8 paragraphs, 5-10 lines each.

- Amending WP is much easier. There's only one form to fill, and they just add an indication on one page. 1-2 days max I'd say, but I used my company's lawyer so it took longer.

 

Thanks a lot for the very useful reply.

[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

What I did was 1) have my embassy issue it in my original language 2) translate it in Thai by a translator that is accredited by my embassy 3) Bring to my embassy to bundle both and certify the thai translator 4) Bring to Chaeng Wattana to have the Dpt of Consular Affairs certify the signature from my embassy... 

 

While it sounds complicated, it does make sense. Thanks.

[onthemoon]

9 hours ago, GarryP said:

I doubt very much that any embassy, apart from a Thai one, would certify a document in the Thai language.

 

I would think the Thai authorities will want it in Thai language. The translation process as described by Gabba makes sense.

[Big Guns]

The one main benefit I had from using a lawyer who was a specialist was that everything was right first time. If you and your partner are full time working professionals who don't live in Bangkok then this is priceless.

[BKKBike09]

On 03/10/2017 at 8:15 AM, aidenai said:

Thank you very much for your extensive reply, Arkady.

 

Yes, thanks as ever for your very thorough and informative replies. 

[BKKBike09]

14 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

The naturalization section at SB is very friendly and extremely helpful, they'll tell you exactly what is needed. IMO the best for new applicants is to go there the first time with all originals you have and not even need to copy anything, they'll go through the list of requirement one by one so that you can know what is missing and bring it back on the subsequent visits. Because clearly nobody can submit a complete set of documents right from the beginning, there will be additions and there will be corrections requested. Iteration and patience work the best here. Some examples of documents which are not part of the original list, that I had to provide -and it doesn't mean everyone will have to provide them-:
- Copy of the passport containing my first entry to Thailand
- Certificate of criminal status in my country of origin
- Letter describing myself (background, how I met my wife, why I came to Thailand, past jobs in Thailand, relatives...)
Regarding my document corrections:
- My salary letter missed a clear sentence of the average monthly salary (which must be 1/12 of the total annual income).
- My name in WP and PR were written differently in Thai. I had to request a change in WP.

Take this as informational only, it's just to give you an idea of the details that are needed, because for sure SB and the applicant share the same goal which is to succeed in the application. 

 

And if you want to really prepare the letter of intention from the beginning, the best is to go to your embassy and ask them which document they provided for the previous applicant to Thai citizenship. On my side I lost time producing a draft letter and I found they already had a template there.

 

Interesting that they asked for the No Conviction certificate. When I applied for PR, my application nearly came of the rails because I had an entry on the UK PNC (subsequently, I determined, because I used to have a Firearms Certificate). Immigration were quite exercised by the fact and an officer angrily accused me of trying to hide a criminal past. When I tried to explain that my PNC entry related to a Firearms Certificate, they told me it was not possible, because "in Thailand only police can own guns" (a non sequitur, and also incorrect, as now I not only have PR but also legally own a firearm in my own name). Their advice was: forget about PR, and just go straight to applying for Thai nationality, as that process, bizarrely it seemed to me, did not require the No Conviction certificate. I still find it surprising that it's not listed under the formal requirements.

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Indeed this is not part of the list of requirements. Perhaps this is added for people applying on the basis of marriage? It would make sense to me, since PR holders already did it on their side, but this is just my assumption (and btw I have PR less than 5 years, so... it's my second time).

[GarryP]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

 

I would think the Thai authorities will want it in Thai language. The translation process as described by Gabba makes sense.

Yes, of course they want it in Thai language. What I meant was that the embassy will not certify Thai language documents. You need to translate the documents into Thai and then have them certified by MoFA. 

 

BTW it sounds so much more onerous in terms of documents than when I did it and that was only a handful of years ago.   

[qualtrough]

13 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

What I did was 1) have my embassy issue it in my original language 2) translate it in Thai by a translator that is accredited by my embassy 3) Bring to my embassy to bundle both and certify the thai translator 4) Bring to Chaeng Wattana to have the Dpt of Consular Affairs certify the signature from my embassy... 

Thank you, and Arkady. I will bring down everything and let them tell me what I am missing, sounds like the best advice.

 

At this point I see a problem with one issue, the donation. I don't have any record showing a donation of 5000 or more and of course they say that you cannot make it specifically with the application in mind. Any ideas on that one, work-arounds, etc?

[Arkady]

22 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

Thank you, and Arkady. I will bring down everything and let them tell me what I am missing, sounds like the best advice.

 

At this point I see a problem with one issue, the donation. I don't have any record showing a donation of 5000 or more and of course they say that you cannot make it specifically with the application in mind. Any ideas on that one, work-arounds, etc?

 

Unfortunately many Thai charities are utterly corrupt. I had a rather obnoxious, well heeled colleague who liked to boast that he paid under the table to staff at a registered charity to issue receipts with face value 10x what he paid them under the table, in order to reduce his tax bill. The charity of course got nothing.  I am not suggesting you do that but you might find a charity that can be flexible about dating the receipts.  Otherwise, make a donation as soon as you can and ask SB how long you have to wait to season your donation before your can apply.  I would guess they will say only about 3 months but I could be wrong. 

 

SB only needs the receipts from charities, so there is no need to ask for letters from them as well but you can submit them, if you have them.  Anyone who has a lot of receipts going back years would be well advised to submit a summary and total to make it easier for the various reviewers of your file.  

[MrPatrickThai]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

Yes, of course they want it in Thai language. What I meant was that the embassy will not certify Thai language documents. You need to translate the documents into Thai and then have them certified by MoFA. 

 

BTW it sounds so much more onerous in terms of documents than when I did it and that was only a handful of years ago.   

Nothing is set in stone. Different people, they ask for different things. it's the untold Thai test of patience and tolerance. 

[MrPatrickThai]

16 minutes ago, Arkady said:

. 

 

SB only needs the receipts from charities, so there is no need to ask for letters from them as well but you can submit them, if you have them.  Anyone who has a lot of receipts going back years would be well advised to submit a summary and total to make it easier for the various reviewers of your file.  

Damn, my letter was a waste of time then or they wasted my time and money getting my to get it translated.