Is police harassment in the Thong Lo area still a problem?

[Terek]

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

There is.  If you possess one you do so illegally as, since 2014, it must have been imported illegally.

 

this not how law works, there is principle of presumption of innocence at first and prosecution must prove that you have imported it illegally. I can tell you more, shops at Sukhumvit that sells this stuff is connected with police for sure, police is not givin a sht about small el cigs as half of Thai youth have them, some very hungry cop may harass some ignorant drunk tourist maybe at max, if you live here situation is different.....  

[SS1]

 

 

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

So vaping and possession hasn’t been banned but if you have an e-cigarette in your possession then you must have brought it into Thailand illegally and are therefore breaking the law. 

 

So what if you have bought it from a local Thai retailer in 2021 with a receipt? It is obvious that the retailer is breaking the law, but what about the person in possession of the locally sourced item? 

[mogandave]

20 hours ago, SS1 said:

 

 

 

So what if you have bought it from a local Thai retailer in 2021 with a receipt? It is obvious that the retailer is breaking the law, but what about the person in possession of the locally sourced item? 

 

Then you could take the receipt with you to court...

[Liverpool Lou]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:11 PM, SS1 said:

On 4/17/2021 at 2:30 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

So vaping and possession hasn’t been banned but if you have an e-cigarette in your possession then you must have brought it into Thailand illegally and are therefore breaking the law. 

 

So what if you have bought it from a local Thai retailer in 2021 with a receipt? It is obvious that the retailer is breaking the law, but what about the person in possession of the locally sourced item? 

That person who bought it, illegally, from an illegal seller, would, obviously, be in possession of an item that was illegally imported, that is the offence.  That he bought it from a third party here doesn't make it's purchase legal. 

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That person who bought it, illegally, from an illegal seller, would, obviously, be in possession of an item that was illegally imported, that is the offence.  That he bought it from a third party here doesn't make it's purchase legal. 

It's not obvious at all. There would need to be a separate offence of possession, just like there is for cocaine for example. If there isn't a specific law saying possession is an offence, then it isn't an offence.

[bkk6060]

I hope they harass mostly everyone.

Too many criminals and no good low life's walking around stop, frisk, and search.

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

It's not obvious at all. There would need to be a separate offence of possession, just like there is for cocaine for example. If there isn't a specific law saying possession is an offence, then it isn't an offence.

There is that specific law!   It is covered by Section 20 of the Customs Act that prohibits the import of electronic cigarettes as this section covers the category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and therefore their possession is illegal.  

 

The offence is possessing an banned item that has, by definition, been illegally imported (unless it can be proven that it was acquired prior to the 2014 legislation). 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[l4ml4m]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:39 AM, mogandave said:

 

Then you could take the receipt with you to court...

 

Yes, you can bring what you want to the court after having spent weeks in the cops cell...

 

People living in Thailand and thinking that they have any chance against cops / laws are just so funny...

 

Pay and leave ! this is your only chance !

 

[edwardandtubs]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

There is that specific law!   It is covered by Section 20 of the Customs Act that prohibits the import of electronic cigarettes as this section covers the category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and therefore their possession is illegal.  

 

The offence is possessing an banned item that has, by definition, been illegally imported (unless it can be proven that it was acquired prior to the 2014 legislation). 

An illegally imported item isn't the same as a banned item. It's illegal to import dildos but certainly not illegal to possess them.

[edwardandtubs]

14 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

 

Yes, you can bring what you want to the court after having spent weeks in the cops cell...

 

People living in Thailand and thinking that they have any chance against cops / laws are just so funny...

 

Pay and leave ! this is your only chance !

 

It's attitude like that that encourages cops to act the way they do. If you've done nothing wrong and are clearly not a sap who just pays up they always leave you alone.

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

It's attitude like that that encourages cops to act the way they do. If you've done nothing wrong and are clearly not a sap who just pays up they always leave you alone.

 

Yes. If you've done nothing wrong, but that's not what we're talking about here is it?

[pixelaoffy]

19 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

 

Yes, you can bring what you want to the court after having spent weeks in the cops cell...

 

People living in Thailand and thinking that they have any chance against cops / laws are just so funny...

 

Pay and leave ! this is your only chance !

 

True! The country is bent and corrupt to the hilt 

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

An illegally imported item isn't the same as a banned item. It's illegal to import dildos but certainly not illegal to possess them.

What have dildos got to do with this and what makes you think that the possession of them is "certainly not illegal"?    

 

The subjects of this discussion, E-fags, are illegal, i.e. banned, in Thailand, the possession of them being covered by Section 20 of the Customs Act.   

 

If you possess one you're in possession of an illegal item on which import duty has not been paid.  That's an offence and it is the offence for which transgressors and possessors are currently prosecuted.

[edwardandtubs]

7 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What have dildos got to do with this and what makes you think that the possession of them is "certainly not illegal"?    

 

The subjects of this discussion, E-fags, are illegal, i.e. banned, in Thailand, the possession of them being covered by Section 20 of the Customs Act.   

 

If you possess one you're in possession of an illegal item on which import duty has not been paid.  That's an offence and it is the offence for which transgressors and possessors are currently prosecuted.

There's nothing in section 20 of the Customs Act that makes the possession of e-cigarettes illegal:

 

"Section 20 When a duty assessment is completed, a customs officer shall submit

a duty assessment notification to an importer or an exporter within seven days from the day

such duty assessment is completed, pursuant to the rules, procedures and conditions specified

by the Director-General.

The importer or the exporter shall pay a full amount of duty within thirty days

from the date of receiving the duty assessment notification."

 

I don't know if they are or they aren't illegal but there's nothing in this section that says they are.

Edited April 22, 2021 by edwardandtubs

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

10 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What have dildos got to do with this and what makes you think that the possession of them is "certainly not illegal"?    

 

The subjects of this discussion, E-fags, are illegal, i.e. banned, in Thailand, the possession of them being covered by Section 20 of the Customs Act.   

 

If you possess one you're in possession of an illegal item on which import duty has not been paid.  That's an offence and it is the offence for which transgressors and possessors are currently prosecuted.

Expand  

There's nothing in section 20 of the Customs Act that makes the possession of e-cigarettes illegal:

 

"Section 20 When a duty assessment is completed, a customs officer shall submit

a duty assessment notification to an importer or an exporter within seven days from the day

such duty assessment is completed, pursuant to the rules, procedures and conditions specified

by the Director-General.

The importer or the exporter shall pay a full amount of duty within thirty days

from the date of receiving the duty assessment notification."

 

I don't know if they are or they aren't illegal but there's nothing in this section that says they are.

That section requires that duty is paid as required under the Act.  Duty cannot be paid on e-cigs as they are illegal, therefore if you are in possession of an e-cig you are in possession of an illegal item, i.e an imported item on which import duty has not been paid.   

 

If you don't think that's an offence, so be it, but it is, that's why there are prosecutions.

[edwardandtubs]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That section requires that duty is paid as required under the Act.  Duty cannot be paid on e-cigs as they are illegal, therefore if you are in possession of an e-cig you are in possession of an illegal item, i.e an imported item on which import duty has not been paid.   

 

If you don't think that's an offence, so be it, but it is, that's why there are prosecutions.

The problem is you're not presenting any evidence for your assertions. What law makes it illegal to be in possession of an imported item on which import duty has not been paid?

Edited April 22, 2021 by edwardandtubs

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, edwardandtubs said:

The problem is you're not presenting any evidence for your assertions. What law makes it illegal to be in possession of an imported item on which import duty has not been paid?

Section 20 of the Customs Act.

[edwardandtubs]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Section 20 of the Customs Act.

You clearly have absolutely no idea how legal systems actually work if you think that. You're putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5.

[shy coconut]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:24 AM, SS1 said:

 

Yes, generally if they can indicate that you have imported the device (even for personal use) that could land you in trouble. I remember a case of a Swiss tourist getting arrested, paying hefty fines and getting deported for this type of "import". 

The reason why people are careful with them is because there is a widespread rumour that their possession is illegal, following an outbreak of fake news a couple of years ago. As many people now believe they are completely prohibited, the police are using this to their advantage for extortion. I know people who have paid bribes of 10-20k in order to not get arrested for possessing one. 

However, if you actually read the law it clearly states importation and sales are illegal - nothing about possession or use. A French woman was arrested in Phuket and went to court. She was deported due to overstay as a result of the arrest, but finally the court fined her for "smoking while driving" as they could not charge her with anything else. 

Surely then, by your explanation, any foreigner in possession of an electronic smoking 

device is breaking the law. Either they imported it or bought it. 

 

I suppose they can claim someone gave it to them, but how else would they own one?

[The Hammer2021]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:42 AM, Swiss1960 said:

Free advice: Omit the area, if you look/behave like a drug user (or are one) and you will not be harassed...

And my melatonin balance?

[The Hammer2021]

6 minutes ago, shy coconut said:

Surely then, by your explanation, any foreigner in possession of an electronic smoking 

device is breaking the law. Either they imported it or bought it. 

 

I suppose they can claim someone gave it to them, but how else would they own one?

There are clear notices in many Pattaya bars banning them due to illegality.

[The Hammer2021]

I stopped going to Soi Cowboy  or past Asoke years ago.  Especially late at night. Since they cleared all the food stalls and vendors that whole area  became joyless and the undercover police and spotters became painfully obvious. Worryingly the cops were using falang and Arab or Russian volunteers as informers and spotters.

[The Hammer2021]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:00 PM, Surelynot said:

is the illegal bit to what ?....sell, actually be caught using them?.....I ask because I see quite a lot of people using them now.

You see people using them publicly and openly?

[Nojohndoe]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:24 PM, SS1 said:

 

Yes, generally if they can indicate that you have imported the device (even for personal use) that could land you in trouble. I remember a case of a Swiss tourist getting arrested, paying hefty fines and getting deported for this type of "import". 

The reason why people are careful with them is because there is a widespread rumour that their possession is illegal, following an outbreak of fake news a couple of years ago. As many people now believe they are completely prohibited, the police are using this to their advantage for extortion. I know people who have paid bribes of 10-20k in order to not get arrested for possessing one. 

However, if you actually read the law it clearly states importation and sales are illegal - nothing about possession or use. A French woman was arrested in Phuket and went to court. She was deported due to overstay as a result of the arrest, but finally the court fined her for "smoking while driving" as they could not charge her with anything else. 

"smoking while driving" ? Is that actually an offence in Thailand?

[ChipButty]

Legal or not, there has been many people done for having them and using them, It might have been on here a while back some young guy got caught with a garage full of the stuff 

[ChipButty]

2 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

"smoking while driving" ? Is that actually an offence in Thailand?

I know a few girls like to smoke while Im driving 

[moontang]

On 4/20/2021 at 6:42 AM, bkk6060 said:

I hope they harass mostly everyone.

Too many criminals and no good low life's walking around stop, frisk, and search.

In that case, they should start with themselves. 

[The Hammer2021]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:02 PM, Yellowtail said:

 

There are people in their mid-twenties that look like businessmen?

 

In any event, best to not participate in criminal activity regardless of how you look or where you are. 

Urine tests create false positives for a number of reasons

[The Hammer2021]

5 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

"smoking while driving" ? Is that actually an offence in Thailand?

driving  with wrong type of footage is.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Urine tests create false positives for a number of reasons

 

Not very often...