Work from home: Company won't pay salary for group who caught Covid after dining at a mall

[pedro01]

3 minutes ago, Fromas said:

 

 

Again, in a normal year I tend to agree.

Now, in the state we're in, we'll see about that!

 

No - labor law has not changed.

 

Also - labor law is heavily on the side of the employee here. 

[Fromas]

1 minute ago, pedro01 said:

Let's say a labor contract wrote that you would give up your first child to the company.

 

Any restrictive contract needs to meet tests of conscionability. Giving up your first born is a lousy example.

In this case the blighters lunched together and got covid together. Good luck with that. 

[pedro01]

1 minute ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I doubt most bosses care about labour laws, they will just make your life miserable otherwise. Many of those working don't even get social fees paid.

 

All bosses are bound by it and it costs almost nothing to take your employer to labor court and employees mostly win cases.

 

So reality is that they do indeed care and in this case, their decision will be reversed. 

[ChaiyaTH]

Just now, pedro01 said:

 

All bosses are bound by it and it costs almost nothing to take your employer to labor court and employees mostly win cases.

 

So reality is that they do indeed care and in this case, their decision will be reversed. 

Absolute nonsense, only if you are in a few million of the better jobs in Thailand, the rest of them won't get any of that. In this case only due to publicity, we are not in a first world country here. 

[pedro01]

1 minute ago, Fromas said:

 

Any restrictive contract needs to meet tests of conscionability. Giving up your first born is a lousy example.

In this case the blighters lunched together and got covid together. Good luck with that. 

 

Like I said - there are 2 things at play here.

1 - the mandate to stay at home outside working hours is not enforcable

2 - even if it was - you cannot deduct from salaries

 

BTW - I've been an employer here for 22 years.

 

Section 76. An Employer shall not make any deductions from Wages, Overtime Pay, Holiday Pay and Holiday Overtime Pay except the deductions made for:

(1) payment of income tax in an amount shall be paid by an Employee or other payments provided by law;

(2) payment of labour union dues according to the regulations of a labour union;

(3) payment of debts owed to the saving cooperatives or other cooperatives of the same description, or of debts relating to benefcial to of the Employee solely, with the prior consent of the Employee;

(4) payment as a deposit under Section 10, or as compensation to the Employer for damage caused by the Employee either willfully or with gross negligence, with the prior consent of the Employee; or

(5) payment as Contributions under an agreement relating to a provident fund. The deductions under (2), (3), (4), and (5) in each case shall not be made in excess of ten per cent, and in aggregate shall not exceed one in ffths of the money to which the Employee is entitled at the time of payment under Section 70, except with the prior consent of the Employee

[pedro01]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Absolute nonsense, only if you are in a few million of the better jobs in Thailand, the rest of them won't get any of that. In this case only due to publicity, we are not in a first world country here. 

 

You are totally incorrect. 

 

Plenty of low paid factory workers have won labor court cases here. 

 

If there is a company, labor law applies. 

[Fromas]

2 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

So reality is that

 

Reality is that you don't know the law, you don't know the context.

The company had agreed to waive its rights, to allow employees to work from home and still get paid. They did something stupid instead. Try fighting that one out.

 

 

 

[pedro01]

Just now, Fromas said:

 

Reality is that you don't know the law, you don't know the context.

The company had agreed to waive its rights, to allow employees to work from home and still get paid. They did something stupid instead. Try fighting that one out.

 

 

 

 

I do - I have been an employer for 22 years.

 

I have been on both sides of cases in labor courts too. 

 

I have stated the 2 reasons this is not allowed and shown the statute that prevents deductions of this nature.

 

So far - your argument seems to be - well, nothing at all - you just sat there and decided in your head it wasn't right - I have you an English translation of the rules on deductions.

 

Like I said - this is one of those "all employers know this" things -  like the severance rules. We all know these rules and don't tread on them lightly.

[scorecard]

Just now, pedro01 said:

 

You are totally incorrect. 

 

Plenty of low paid factory workers have won labor court cases here. 

 

If there is a company, labor law applies. 

 

It applies to any employment not just companies.

 

Agree, cases taken to the Thai labor court are handled as set out in the law and that includes Thai and foreign workers (incl. farang). 

 

 

[Fromas]

1 minute ago, pedro01 said:

So far - your argument seems to be - well, nothing at all - you just sat there and decided in your head it wasn't right - I have you an English translation of the rules on deductions.

 

You're an employer, while I know the law. We'll see, we'll see.

[pedro01]

Just now, scorecard said:

 

It applies to any employment not just companies.

 

Agree, cases taken to the Thai labor court are handled as set out in the law and that includes Thai and foreign workers (incl. farang). 

 

 

 

Yup - which is a nice change when you are the only white guy in court here!

[pedro01]

Just now, Fromas said:

 

You're an employer, while I know the law. We'll see, we'll see.

 

Well, you aren't a Thai lawyer are you . All you've said is "I know the law". If you did - you would describe how deductions are possible despite this section which prevents them completely: 

 

Section 76. An Employer shall not make any deductions from Wages, Overtime Pay, Holiday Pay and Holiday Overtime Pay except the deductions made for:

(1) payment of income tax in an amount shall be paid by an Employee or other payments provided by law;

(2) payment of labour union dues according to the regulations of a labour union;

(3) payment of debts owed to the saving cooperatives or other cooperatives of the same description, or of debts relating to benefcial to of the Employee solely, with the prior consent of the Employee;

(4) payment as a deposit under Section 10, or as compensation to the Employer for damage caused by the Employee either willfully or with gross negligence, with the prior consent of the Employee; or

(5) payment as Contributions under an agreement relating to a provident fund. The deductions under (2), (3), (4), and (5) in each case shall not be made in excess of ten per cent, and in aggregate shall not exceed one in ffths of the money to which the Employee is entitled at the time of payment under Section 70, except with the prior consent of the Employee

 

No other deductions are allowed - not for covid, screwing the bosses wife, not for going to lunch. 

[Fromas]

Just now, pedro01 said:

No other deductions are allowed

 

If you read what I said, you'd see the legal basis.

I'm not arguing with people who quote one section of a statute and talk about "giving up your first born." There's Judge Judy for that.

 

 

[pedro01]

1 minute ago, Fromas said:

 

If you read what I said, you'd see the legal basis.

I'm not arguing with people who quote one section of a statute and talk about "giving up your first born." There's Judge Judy for that.

 

 

 

There is no legal basis at all. Thai labor law forbids using deductions as a punishment.

 

Talk to a real lawyer - they will confirm. I know I have.

[Fromas]

1 minute ago, pedro01 said:

Talk to a real lawyer - they will confirm. I know I have.

 

Make my day. Talk to your lawyer about this case.

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

Yup - which is a nice change when you are the only white guy in court here!

I'm aware of a case where an international powerful giant dismissed a farang employee here in Thailand. (In reality the Thai HR manager dismissed the guy because she didn't like him, he asked too many questions.)

 

Farang went to the complaints centre at the Labor ministry HQ at Din Daeng.

 

They checked the facts and said he was dismissed illegally, they helped him take his case to the Labour court. Judge checked the facts and listened to both sides then quickly declared that the company was at fault. Judge awarded serious compensation to the farang, and issued an order they had to re-employee him if he wished.

 

Judge asked the farang if he wanted to go back, he said NO. Judge then issued a court order that the company with 7 days pay all severance entitlement to the farang.

 

Judge also gave order that the company pay all court costs including the costs of the ex-employee.

 

Judge also fined the multi-national and separately the arrogant Thai HR manager sizeable amounts with an order fines must be paid within 7 days. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by scorecard

[pedro01]

1 minute ago, Fromas said:

 

Make my day. Talk to your lawyer about this case.

 

I don't need to.

 

This isn't just "a clause" in Thai Labor law - it's one of the one that catches out the most employers. It is written very simply because it is that simple. You can't use deductions as punishment. 

 

It's literally Thai Labor Law 101. 

[Fromas]

1 minute ago, pedro01 said:

I don't need to.

 

Then let's stop here. Pointless to go on.
 

[The Hammer2021]

Sadly as this story  originated on FB it has no credibility. Without the names of the people, Mall and company it's just a rumor...

[Fromas]

1 minute ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Without the names of the people, Mall and company it's just a rumor

 

It could be just a rumor, though names are routinely omitted from salacious news because of the anti-defamation laws.

[The Hammer2021]

4 hours ago, seajae said:

this is the biggest problem in Thailand, too many people just seem to think they can ignore evrything and do as they please spreading covid to everyone around them without a worry in the world. Working from home so they avoid close contact with others and they all go out to dinner ignoring the good will of the company trying to help them avoid catching covid, again we see the stupidity/ignorance of people, if the people actually thought before acting they would realize they need to stay away from others

Not amongst most Thais I know. They are very worried  about covid-19.

[The Hammer2021]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

welcome back, I missed the sarcasm and reading between the lines.

Sarcasm is the lowest firm of wit and frequently non delectable in text. Sarcasm also functions as a cover, as an excuse when people wish to withdraw  what they have said. I take statements at face value.

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Six or seven days later they all tested positive for Covid and some had infected their wives and children and employees at their homes. 

one word comes to mind "" Karma-- Son Nam Ma""

 

(The idea of karma is thousands of years old, and simply put is that what we do and put out into the world comes back to us.)

[The Hammer2021]

11 minutes ago, Fromas said:

 

It could be just a rumor, though names are routinely omitted from salacious news because of the anti-defamation laws.

No. You are wrong. Not in covid reports. Lists of establishments are listed daily as being sources of infections. News reports  list places with times and dates as part of track  and trace.

[Nojohndoe]

23 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

What makes you think for one minute that I'm not boycotting China?

 

To be clear, I am.

Me too ! Me too! Never ever been there once !

( I feel guilty tapping that out on my Made in China Lenovo .)????

[Fromas]

14 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

No. You are wrong.

 

Only proved "wrong" by folks like you who don't read my posts with care.  This is a piece of private, salacious news, not an official report.

[DavisH]

5 hours ago, seajae said:

this is the biggest problem in Thailand, too many people just seem to think they can ignore evrything and do as they please spreading covid to everyone around them without a worry in the world. Working from home so they avoid close contact with others and they all go out to dinner ignoring the good will of the company trying to help them avoid catching covid, again we see the stupidity/ignorance of people, if the people actually thought before acting they would realize they need to stay away from others

It's a big problem everywhere. No need to mention Thailand. You could replace Thailand with the USA/UK etc. 

[Nojohndoe]

3 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

I've been there a few times in the past, no more.

 

My computer equipment is all made in Taiwan and when I buy anything it's normally the very best specification that money can buy which tends to be rather expensive.

 

I tend to buy the  best my money can buy.

[kingstonkid]

5 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I think a huge number of young(er) people are naturally gung-ho and further buoyed by the fact so few die or are even aware they have or have had covid19..........so let's party on....(I have been in self-isolation since April 7th) 

 

 

Aw do you remember when you were young. 

 

Going out getting blitzed on Friday night was not good for you but what the hell

Having a few drinks and then driving home because we really did not drink that much

Picking up a girl in a bar for a one nighter and not worrying about silly things like STD

 

It is now a lot worse because we live in a society (not just here) where kids are not taught responsibility and no one does anything wrong it is always someone elses fault.

 

The yes I screwed up but still I should get everything.

 

If in fact they were told not socialize in person and they were out to lunch during working hours then even though both of these were stipulated as part of the deal for working at home they should be fired for breach of contract and immediately put on unpaid sick leave.

 

[natway09]

They have not been fired for their simple act of defiance.

They are just not getting paid for their time off which under the circumstances where they had not been retrenched but told to work & stay home to get their salary

Stupid, inconsiderate people.

I have said 20 times that shopping malls should be closed, but of course they are owned by the wealthy  negotiators