Hidden Pollution in Eastern Seaboard.

[kwilco]

With the prevalence of Covid in the news it is easy to miss out on other issues.

Chonburi, Rayong and Chachoengsao provinces have very high numbers of "western" immigrants. Long term residents who are either workers in the industrial complexes or retirees. I wonder if they are aware of the pollution threats posed by the massive developments associated with the EEC?

 

https://chinadialogue.net/en/pollution/thai-communities-grapple-with-pollution-in-economic-corridor/

[kingofthemountain]

Nothing new here, unfortunately the whole Thailand is polluted

the air with the vehicles exhaust gas and the crop burning

the ground and the water with the waste and the chimics

agricultural and industrial

money talk for the ones in charge

the simple people suffer

it's worse year after year since 2014

nothing will change before the health and social cost become  

a too heavy financial burden for the nation, could be in 30-50 years

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Nothing new here, unfortunately the whole Thailand is polluted

the air with the vehicles exhaust gas and the crop burning

the ground and the water with the waste and the chimics

agricultural and industrial

money talk for the ones in charge

the simple people suffer

it's worse year after year since 2014

nothing will change before the health and social cost become  

a too heavy financial burden for the nation, could be in 30-50 years

 

There has been poor regulation of pollution in Thailand for decades. 

However the industry in Rayong, Chinburi and Chachiengsoa has put these provu ces way ahead of the rest of the country.

For instance half of all I industrial waste in that region is disposed of in unfit sites 

Cars etc can be nationwide, but it is I dustry that poses the problem here.

 ....and recently it is the massive development involved in the EEC that is bringing a whole new set of problems.

We are looking at the petrochemical industries the building of new road and I industrial sites but no I frastructure fir the increased pollution they bring.

Its jot just AQIs that need to be revamped, but the water and sil in the region is being ruined....and the fishing I dustry has been decimated.

[kwilco]

Just now, kwilco said:

 

There has been poor regulation of pollution in Thailand for decades. 

However the industry in Rayong, Chinburi and Chachiengsoa has put these provu ces way ahead of the rest of the country.

For instance half of all I industrial waste in that region is disposed of in unfit sites 

Cars etc can be nationwide, but it is I dustry that poses the problem here.

 ....and recently it is the massive development involved in the EEC that is bringing a whole new set of problems.

We are looking at the petrochemical industries the building of new road and I industrial sites but no I frastructure fir the increased pollution they bring.

Its jot just AQIs that need to be revamped, but the water and sil in the region is being ruined....and the fishing I dustry has been decimated.

Rayong has previously had Peaks in cancer rates and it should surely be a matter of concern for the large immigrant/expat communities in Pattaya and Ban Chang that their environment is being severely damaged.

I certainly would think twice about eating local produce.

[Brierley]

The North is the pollution hub of Thailand, we fought hard for the title. No up and coming Johnny come lately EEC related area is going to take it away from us.

[kingofthemountain]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

Rayong has previously had Peaks in cancer rates and it should surely be a matter of concern for the large immigrant/expat communities in Pattaya and Ban Chang that their environment is being severely damaged.

I certainly would think twice about eating local produce.

You are totally right

 

however i doubt the quality and how pollution affect the produces

they are eating could affect most of the expat community in Pattaya

 

We are here talking about individuals over 60, overweight, heavy drinkers and smokers, used to s...g the ''girls'' without condom and drive their scooter without helmet, they are totally self centered and not really aware of their environment

 

In fact most of them don't care at all as long as they can enjoy their day in their way of pleasures

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

You are totally right

 

however i doubt the quality and how pollution affect the produces

they are eating could affect most of the expat community in Pattaya

 

We are here talking about individuals over 60, overweight, heavy drinkers and smokers, used to s...g the ''girls'' without condom and drive their scooter without helmet, they are totally self centered and not really aware of their environment

 

In fact most of them don't care at all as long as they can enjoy their day in their way of pleasures

It has already been established that food production has been contaminated - are you not aware of the local protests? They have been ongoing for decades..

for example...

 

"https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/thai-local-communities-want-their-say-fighting-pollution"

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30239513

 

https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/10710259/deadly-explosion-hits-map-ta-phut-petrochemical-plant

 

 

Crops are affected by fallout from the industrial plants themselves as well as the water table being polluted by seepage from the garbage tips and landfill that are not designed to contain the wasted accepted there.

 

As for the retiree immigrants, they may well not be aware or don't care, but when they spend there last days in hospital with lung diseases or cancers triggered by local pollutants, they may regret it.

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, Brierley said:

The North is the pollution hub of Thailand, we fought hard for the title. No up and coming Johnny come lately EEC related area is going to take it away from us.

Not really, you are confusing the obvious problems caused by crop burning with the more insidious effects of the Huge industrial complexes around Chonburi Chachoengsao and Rayong. They house the tenth largest motor industry in the world with all the concomitant supporting businesses. The biggest petrochemical industry outside China, plastics, aromatics, volatiles of all sorts, electronics, composites and consumer goods etc etc........

 

In fact, I've noticed that many expats who live in this region are unaware of how big the industry is around them.

This problem is by no means "Johnny-vome-lately" about 15 years ago it was so bad the authorities had to shut down over 60 factories in the area,.

 

The lack of regulation has encouraged well know internal/multinationals to settle there and use practices that would be totally illegal elsewhere.

Noe there is a big push to fill up the whole area with new industry.

Anyone who has driven around these provinces with have seen that even 25 years ago expansion had been planned but abandoned, now with the advent of the EEC the whole thing is starting up again.

[Brierley]

Actually, I was being satirical, the definition of which includes:   its main goal is to raise people's awareness about the current state of affairs....it helps us confront the unpleasant reality and see the world as it is, so that we can improve it.

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

It has already been established that food production has been contaminated - are you not aware of the local protests? They have been ongoing for decades..

for example...

As i said you are right

and yes i am well aware of all these problems

 

In my post i was talking about the foreign immigrants expats

and as i said most of them don't know\don't care about it

it the same thing with the Thais people, few of them are aware of the problem

however most of them don't know\don't care, all they want is to have a job and

earn enough money to put food on the table every day.

 

The ecological fiber is a luxury of a rich country 

and the move needs to come from the base (A large number of people)

AND from the head (the governements taking the decisions)

actualy as i said thai people are uninformed on this problem and anyway

too busy to earn a daily pitance to be mobilised for this problem

and the goverment is too busy to fill his pockets with the money

flooding from this international industries to do anything against it.

 

I don't know what you plan to do, but concerning myself i can not change

something i have no any action on it, i have no any rights in this country and

i can stay here only as long as i comply with the requirments.

If in the future i can not deal anymore with the air pollution

i will probably leave for a more advanced country

i don't see a lot of other options, but maybe you have any idea or plan about waht to do?

[GreasyFingers]

On 5/1/2021 at 3:09 PM, kwilco said:

I wonder if they are aware of the pollution threats posed by the massive developments associated with the EEC?

You move to a new country and complain about it?

[kwilco]

2 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

You move to a new country and complain about it?

What is your point? please elaborate.

 

[GreasyFingers]

Just now, kwilco said:

What is your point? please elaborate.

 

If you missed the point you would not understand if it was explained to you. (apologies to Crossy)

[kwilco]

Far from complaining the Industries that moved here were encouraged by the BOI. However they do have departments of social responsibility and are aware of public image which successive Thai authorities don't seem concerned with.

 

This article sites several reports from the 2007 and on.

https://www.socialwatch.org/node/12114

Their conclusion......

"The predicament of Mab Ta Phut residents is further supported by the results of an environmental govern- ance assessment carried out by the Thailand Environ- ment Institute (TEI) and the Thailand Environmental Governance Coalition (TAI Thailand), which revealed that the Government had persistently encouraged the operations of industrial plants at Mab Ta Phut to the detriment of the health of the communities and the en- vironment."

 

With the EEC the situation has the potential to become a lot worse. Primarily it is the Thai people who suffer but I doubt if the foreign retirees and workers would be happy to learn of the extent of pollution in the region. If they fail to move in or start to move out it would do the local economy any good.

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

With the EEC the situation has the potential to become a lot worse. Primarily it is the Thai people who suffer but I doubt if the foreign retirees and workers would be happy to learn of the extent of pollution in the region. If they fail to move in or start to move out it would do the local economy any good.

The Thai governement, particularly the actual one

has proven multiples time that he doesn't care at all

about the expatriate community.

I am even personaly sure than if none of these expats weren't anymore  in

Thailand, the actual goverment would be more than happy with the situation

[whaleboneman]

6 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

You move to a new country and complain about it?

People should speak out regardless of the country they are in.

[Brierley]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

Far from complaining the Industries that moved here were encouraged by the BOI. However they do have departments of social responsibility and are aware of public image which successive Thai authorities don't seem concerned with.

 

This article sites several reports from the 2007 and on.

https://www.socialwatch.org/node/12114

Their conclusion......

"The predicament of Mab Ta Phut residents is further supported by the results of an environmental govern- ance assessment carried out by the Thailand Environ- ment Institute (TEI) and the Thailand Environmental Governance Coalition (TAI Thailand), which revealed that the Government had persistently encouraged the operations of industrial plants at Mab Ta Phut to the detriment of the health of the communities and the en- vironment."

 

With the EEC the situation has the potential to become a lot worse. Primarily it is the Thai people who suffer but I doubt if the foreign retirees and workers would be happy to learn of the extent of pollution in the region. If they fail to move in or start to move out it would do the local economy any good.

Pollution control in Thailand is a very very slow process. Just because polluting the environment is wrong and other countries manage things much better, is no reason to think those are sufficient reasons  to think Thailand may up its game, it almost certainly wont. 

 

Government has the power to contain and reverse a majority of the pollution here almost instantaneously, imported airborne pollution included (a large Thai company is responsible for a majority of the contract maize farming in Shan State, Myanmar and Laos). But until the general population makes its displeasure known, until the medical and scientific community initiates enough studies and produces enough damning evidence, nothing much is going to change. Change in Thailand is driven my money and by the will of the majority and no amount of 60 minutes style exposé or Greenpeace report is likely to change that.

 

The idea that retirees may not come here if the pollution becomes too bad has merit, except the financial and economic impact will never be serious because it would happen over the course of decades. I came here twenty one years ago when pollution in the North was bad but only a fraction of what it is now. The fact that people can't breathe for two or three months each year does not deter retirees but the number of studies showing the increased fatalities may. On the other hand, any attempt to contain polluting companies in the EEC would instantaneously cause a reversal of inbound FDI. That would impact local economies to a far greater degree than any western pensioners ever could. 

 

The bottom line: if it makes money and less than a large majority of the population complains about the bi-products, nothing will happen in less than several decades.

 

[Brierley]

And actually, the EEC doesn't have a monopoly on this sort of thing, Western countries are notorious for making stringent rules about pollution which they immediately break on a regulars basis. Case in point the UK which it turns out now pumps raw sewage into the sea, polluting swimming beaches, on a regular basis. And we complain about Pattaya doing the same thing!!! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/06/raw-sewage-dumped-into-english-and-welsh-beaches-2900-times-this-year

 

 

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, Brierley said:

And actually, the EEC doesn't have a monopoly on this sort of thing, Western countries are notorious for making stringent rules about pollution which they immediately break on a regulars basis. Case in point the UK which it turns out now pumps raw sewage into the sea, polluting swimming beaches, on a regular basis. And we complain about Pattaya doing the same thing!!! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/06/raw-sewage-dumped-into-english-and-welsh-beaches-2900-times-this-year

 

 

I fail to sea that pollution in other countries justifies the pollution in Thailand.

 

in fact the situation is quite different as the regulations in Thailand are both insufficient and unenforceable. Most of the military government have vested interests that in Europe and UK would have to be declared.

[Brierley]

Just now, kwilco said:

I fail to sea that pollution in other countries justifies the pollution in Thailand.

 

in fact the situation is quite different as the regulations in Thailand are both insufficient and unenforceable. Most of the military government have vested interests that in Europe and UK would have to be declared.

I'm not justifying anything, I'm telling you how it is.

[kwilco]

IEAT has set up a relief fund to help fishermen in the Rayong area....... their industry has been destroyed by the development of the new port. However this really is nothing more than hush money as their industry will never recover.

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, Brierley said:

until the general population makes its displeasure known, until the medical and scientific community initiates enough studies and produces enough damning evidence, nothing much is going to change.

There are many reports and citizen protests, the problem is th dictatorial nature of the government that has more or less absolute power to do nothing. 

[Brierley]

Just now, kwilco said:

There are many reports and citizen protests, the problem is th dictatorial nature of the government that has more or less absolute power to do nothing. 

I sense that you don't understand how things work here. It's all well and good to have ideals and principles and to fight for good causes etc etc but they have limited effect in Thailand because there is almost no enforcement of any aspect of life here. Arguably, enforcement of foreigners visa's is the most policed aspect of life here.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Brierley said:

I sense that you don't understand how things work here. It's all well and good to have ideals and principles and to fight for good causes etc etc but they have limited effect in Thailand because there is almost no enforcement of any aspect of life here. Arguably, enforcement of foreigners visa's is the most policed aspect of life here.

As a long time resident and worker in that region, I was fully aware of both the problems and the protests of the locals. I suspect you are out of touch.

[huangnon]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:59 AM, kingofthemountain said:

You are totally right

 

however i doubt the quality and how pollution affect the produces

they are eating could affect most of the expat community in Pattaya

 

We are here talking about individuals over 60, overweight, heavy drinkers and smokers, used to s...g the ''girls'' without condom and drive their scooter without helmet, they are totally self centered and not really aware of their environment

 

In fact most of them don't care at all as long as they can enjoy their day in their way of pleasures

 

???? It sounds really enticing when you phrase it like that.. Much better to be whingeing on an online forum, eh?

 

It's the reason Pattaya exists, is this some sort of revelation to you.?

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, huangnon said:

 

???? It sounds really enticing when you phrase it like that.. Much better to be whingeing on an online forum, eh?

 

It's the reason Pattaya exists, is this some sort of revelation to you.?

You are probably one of those suicidals so i understand your answer

however you have totally missed the point of my post

(And in fact i am not really surprised you did it, always this self centered problem lol)

the point beign these individuals, for the reasons i gave, are not really concerned about the pollution

 

Debating about the reason why Pattaya exists is irrelevant here

for your information i live in Pattaya and i am here because of the girls

it doesn't force in any way me or you to have a behavior totally unaware of the risks except if you are brainless, but as i said it's another debate

 

[EVENKEEL]

On 5/1/2021 at 8:59 PM, kingofthemountain said:

You are totally right

 

however i doubt the quality and how pollution affect the produces

they are eating could affect most of the expat community in Pattaya

 

We are here talking about individuals over 60, overweight, heavy drinkers and smokers, used to s...g the ''girls'' without condom and drive their scooter without helmet, they are totally self centered and not really aware of their environment

 

In fact most of them don't care at all as long as they can enjoy their day in their way of pleasures

Hello,

[chrisandsu]

This has been ongoing for years . Do you think the Thais don’t know it ? All

my wife’s friends know about the pollution on the eastern seaboard and they are from Bangkok . Everything from oil spills in the ocean to trash on the beaches from burning chemical plants we have it all here! But that also brings middle class jobs to a lot of Thais . That’s what you get if you live in rayong - chon buri- chanchansao.

[huangnon]

On 5/3/2021 at 6:04 PM, kwilco said:

As a long time resident and worker in that region, I was fully aware of both the problems and the protests of the locals. I suspect you are out of touch.

 

Where do you live now?

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, huangnon said:

 

Where do you live now?

If you know of the local protests etc then your previous comments contradict you.

 

you realise that location is not a valid argument?