Thai health ministry denies they are giving free jabs to expats - Thais come first

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

This is how I see it:  There is not enough vaccine presently in the supply chain to vaccinate both Thai nationals and foreigners in the high risk groups.  So, the policy of a sovereign nation is to first address the needs of its' own citizens, and then once supplies allow for vaccinating foreigners, they be next in line.

 

To me, there is nothing racist about such a policy, and I'm pretty sure that the Ministry of Health recognizes the urgency to the entire population that ALL high risk groups (regardless of nationality) be vaccinated as quickly as possible.  

 

When demand exceeds supply, prioritization like this is simply necessary.  It is NOT racist policy in any way; it is simply "Real World" logic.

I understand what your saying but I've yet to hear about any other nation carry out such a policy, even those who are still struggling to get vaccines. Its unethical and immoral.

[Fromas]

  

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

It seems obvious that high risk Thai Nationals are the priority, and then high risk foreigners will be next in line.

 

 

Stick to the facts, official statements. Don't make it up.

 

 

 

 

  

1 hour ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

It is during phase two that foreigners in Thailand will be vaccinated, based on their risk group

 

Exactly what I wanted.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Fromas

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

All Thai high risk groups first".  There's a big difference, ya know?  Think about it.  

.....and expats when there is a surplus of vaccines......think about it?

 

At what point do you think there will be a surplus of vaccines???

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Fromas said:

  

 

 

Stick to the facts, official statements. Don't make it up.

Bingo!

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

.....and expats when there is a surplus of vaccines......think about it?

 

At what point do you think there will be a surplus of vaccines???

Hard to know but I've become aware that Thais have a high rate of vaccine hesitancy also related to the correct perception that the Chinese vaccines are inferior. 

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, Fromas said:

 

That is your view. Would you have a source or statement that the government will do this? Because at this point it's as clear as concrete.

No I don't have details and I don't deny that a major issue with the Thai government is lack of details about their roll out strategy, BUT that criticism is a far cry from racism.

 

You may think that the Ministry of Health is run by racists who have no knowledge of how to manage a pandemic but I think they are expert epidemiologists who are dealing with a shortage of vaccines and having to make decisions based on what is best for the population as a whole, and also recognizing that their primary responsibility is to their own citizens.

 

There is absolutely nothing racist about that.  It is simply what sovereign nations do in a situation where demand exceeds supply.

 

Like it or not, we live in the REAL world, not some Utopian land where wishful thinking rules.

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

  It is simply what sovereign nations do in a situation where demand exceeds supply.

You have already been told that that is not the case in the west......why do you keep repeating the same false information....

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

You have already been told that that is not the case in the west......why do you keep repeating the same false information....

Indeed.

For example emerging vaccine success story USA started with a trickle of doses but even at the beginning didn't exclude even undocumented foreigners if they fit the priority groups being served in the earlier phases. 

[WaveHunter]

10 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

.....and expats when there is a surplus of vaccines......think about it?

 

At what point do you think there will be a surplus of vaccines???

Well that is the BIG question, isn't it?  Nobody questions the fact that the government really blew it when they procrastinated in the approval process of many of the vaccine brands.  Why they did this makes no sense at all when many nations had completed this process as far back as December 2020, while Thailand is still in the process even today!

 

"WHEN" there will be a sufficient supply of vaccine for all really depends on what the government does moving forward from now.  Hopefully they will get some enertia going in approving the remaining vaccine brands and then vigorously negotiating to procure them.  

 

It's valid to be critical of the Government for their procrastination of vaccine approval and acquisition, but to call their policy racist is ludicrous.

 

[WaveHunter]

9 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

You have already been told that that is not the case in the west......why do you keep repeating the same false information....

Give me a concrete example that proves this is not true.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

Give me a concrete example that proves this is not true.

Prove to me that God isn't a tiny Victoria teapot orbiting the sun between the Earth and Mars.........

[Fromas]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

It's valid to be critical of the Government for their procrastination of vaccine approval and acquisition, but to call their policy racist is ludicrous.

 

I don't call them racist. However, to me it is clear (just my opinion) that their policies have not been mostly driven by public health factors.

 

 

[varun]

Thai rak Thai

[WaveHunter]

36 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Indeed.

For example emerging vaccine success story USA started with a trickle of doses but even at the beginning didn't exclude even undocumented foreigners if they fit the priority groups being served in the earlier phases. 

Comparing the situation in the US right now with the situation in Thailand right now is like comparing apples to oranges! It is only fair to compare the early stages of the vaccine rollout in the US with the situation right now in Thailand...and in the early stages of the US vaccination rollout, no undocumented foreigners were vaccinated!

 

That only happened in later phases of the rollout.  While the US presently has the strongest supply chain for vaccines in the world, it wasn't like that at all in the early phases of the vaccine rollout! 

 

It is historical fact that the same prioritization that is happening now in Thailand was also practiced in the US during the early phases of the vaccine rollout.

 

And you can damn sure that not a single undocumented foreigner was vaccinated until it was assured that sufficient vaccines would be available for American citizens.

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Comparing the situation in the US right now with the situation in Thailand right now is like comparing apples to oranges! It is only fair to compare the early stages of the vaccine rollout in the US with the situation right now in Thailand.

 

While the US presently has the strongest supply chain for vaccines in the world, it wasn't like that at all in the early phases of the vaccine rollout! 

 

It is historical fact that the same prioritization that is happening now in Thailand was also practiced in the US during the early phases of the vaccine rollout.

 

And you can damn sure that not a single undocumented foreigner was vaccinated until it was assured that sufficient vaccines were available for American citizens.

It is a moral and public health imperative to ensure that all individuals residing in the United States have access to the vaccine,” the Department of Homeland Security said in a statement. “DHS encourages all individuals, regardless of immigration status, to receive the COVID-19 vaccine once eligible under local distribution guidelines.”

Read more here: https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/coronavirus/article248949054.html#storylink=cpy

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

It is a moral and public health imperative to ensure that all individuals residing in the United States have access to the vaccine,” the Department of Homeland Security said in a statement. “DHS encourages all individuals, regardless of immigration status, to receive the COVID-19 vaccine once eligible under local distribution guidelines.”

Read more here: https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/coronavirus/article248949054.html#storylink=cpy

That is the policy NOW that the US has the strongest supply chain for vaccines in the world.  It was NOT the policy in the initial phases of the roll out when it was not assured that enough vaccines would become available for all American citizens.

 

Your "apples to oranges" argument is invalid.

[Surelynot]

Just now, WaveHunter said:

It was NOT the policy in the initial phases

Prove it

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Prove it

Just how do I prove undocumented foreigners were not vaccinated in the early rollout phases when it did not happen!  The burden is on you to disprove what I say. 

 

More simply, anyone who follows current events know for a fact it did not happen or there would have been outrage by Americans reported in the press at a time when nobody was sure if there would be sufficient vaccines for them.

 

Come back down to Earth and join the real world, please!

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Fromas]

28 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

comparing apples to oranges

 

To compare undocumented US immigrants to elderly farang in Thai. Apples and pineapples.

 

29 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

It is historical fact that the same prioritization that is happening now in Thailand was also practiced in the US

 

I'm with surelynot. Prove it.

 

 

 

[John Drake]

27 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Just how do I prove undocumented foreigners were not vaccinated in the early rollout phases when it did not happen!  The burden is on you to disprove what I say. 

 

From 2 February 2021, early in the vaccine rollout.

 

Quote

The U.S. government on Monday promised undocumented migrants the same access to COVID-19 vaccines as other civilians, and said inoculation centres would be immigration enforcement-free zones.    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-immigration-vaccine-idUSKBN2A20T0

 

[Fromas]

30 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

anyone who follows current events know for a fact it did not happen or there would have been outrage by Americans

 

Your proof is universal cognizance. That's your proof? Doesn't work here.

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, Fromas said:

 

To compare undocumented US immigrants to elderly farang in Thai. Apples and pineapples.

 

 

I'm with surelynot. Prove it.

 

 

 

It's pretty obvious that both you and @Surelynot do not follow current events in the US very closely or you wouldn't ask for proof of something that did not even occur.

 

How does one provide proof that something did NOT happen anyway?  The burden therefore is on you to prove it did happen.

 

[Fromas]

Nice try. I'm not asking you to prove a universal negative (no unicorn on Mars).

 

I'm asking you to prove a positive: 

 

44 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

the same prioritization that is happening now in Thailand was also practiced in the US during the early phases of the vaccine rollout.

 

 

Also, read John Drake's disconfirmation.

 

 

 

 

 

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

From 2 February 2021, early in the vaccine rollout.

 

 

Once again, this statement was NOT made during the initial vaccine rollout; it was made only later once it was assured that a strong supply chain existed that would serve the needs of all American citizens.

 

This is just another apples to oranges comparison with the present state of affairs in Thailand RIGHT NOW.

[John Drake]

Just now, WaveHunter said:

Once again, this statement was NOT made during the initial vaccine rollout; it was made only later once it was assured that a strong supply chain existed that would serve the needs of all American citizens.

 

This is just another apples to oranges comparison with the present state of affairs in Thailand RIGHT NOW.

 

Now you just want to twist words and deny. You don't think late January/early February was the beginning of the rollout, which just got underway in early January?

[Surelynot]

A high-ranking official has confirmed that authorities plan to include 3 million foreigners living in the country in its mass vaccination programme to protect the entire population, amid concerns over the scope of vaccine access.

"Anybody living in Thailand, whether they be Thai or foreign, if they want they vaccine, they can get it," Opas Kankawinpong, head of the disease control department, told a briefing.

"No one is safe until everyone is safe," he added.

[TaoNow]

Why are all you posters so worked up about vaccine availability?

 

Aren't you practicing primary prevention in your household and when you go outside?

 

What have you got to fear by waiting a few months until the vaccine situation clarifies?

 

Until then, pipe down please.

[candide]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Just how do I prove undocumented foreigners were not vaccinated in the early rollout phases when it did not happen!  The burden is on you to disprove what I say. 

So where did you get this idea that foreigners have been excluded from covid vaccination in other countries if you have  no source? (I have an assumption about it but I'm too polite...)

Edited May 6, 2021 by candide

[surangw]

 

I wonder if the private clinics  transport and store the vaccine properly

 

[WaveHunter]

4 hours ago, candide said:

So where did you get this idea that foreigners have been excluded from covid vaccination in other countries if you have  no source? (I have an assumption about it but I'm too polite...)

First of all I did not say they were excluded; I said they were not included.  There is a difference in those two phrases.

 

I said that they were not included until the supply chain was established enough so that all Americans were assured of getting vaccinated. 

 

To be very clear, we were talking about undocumented people who ILLEGALLY flooded across our southern border recently, overwhelming the ability of border officials to screen them for Covid. 

 

A big reason they are getting vaccinated is because they present a clear and present danger to the population as a whole.